Jig or Protractor?

[Nat]

Vinyl Engine has the manuals for the table in the library. Apparently overhang is 16mm and Luxman made no provision for helping users achieve that specific distance. Weird. You could make an overhang checker with a 45 adaptor - measure the spindle hole, divide that distance by half, subtract from 16mm, and then mark the adaptor at the distance that is the difference. I'm a little uneasy about the very slight error introduced by the arc the stylus will follow down from the height of the adaptor to the record, but mostly on theoretical ground.
The general concensus seems that a protractor is the way to go, but be aware that different protrators (Stevenson, Baerwald, and so on) may produce odd looking results - using Baerwald on a Stevenson arm leaves the cartridge far forward and cocked. It'll sound fine, but look ugly, which would be a pity on such a handsome table. Most japanese tables use Stevenson which minimizes inner groove distortion, but most protractors seem to be Baerwald.
If you download a protractor make sure your scaling is exactly correct, or you will be spending a lot of effort to get an misaligned cartridge.

 

[spark1]

But the manufacturer always specifies the effective length .If you install the cartridge once along the effective length, then you can measure the distances for making the checker . And then the next cartridge replacement can already be done using the checker . Checker is more convenient than protractor . I have several protractors - for each of my turntables . But I don't use protractors anymore ....But everyone makes their own choice....

How does one calculate the distance from headshell collar to stylus using effective length and overhang? Only a few specify distance from collar to stylus tip (pioneer, technics, for example).

Or are you saying that you use a protractor the first time you use a new cartridge to get desired alignment, then remove the headshell and measure the distance from collar to stylus?

 

[salamander]

How does one calculate the distance from headshell collar to stylus using effective length and overhang? Only a few specify distance from collar to stylus tip (pioneer, technics, for example).

Or are you saying that you use a protractor the first time you use a new cartridge to get desired alignment, then remove the headshell and measure the distance from collar to stylus?

Why calculate these distances ? This is measured directly on the tonearm . It is measured only once-after setting the effective length . And then you can use this data to make a checker of any design . And many manufacturers indicated the distance from the edge of the shell to the tip of the needle ( Pioneer, Kenwood, Technics, and many others ) ...... P.S - And in general, I believe that if the protractor is used, then it should be designed specifically for a specific model of the turntable . And universal protractors are not needed at all ...No one knows the features of a tonearm better than its manufacturer . And in the protractor, the data of the tonearm manufacturer must be observed .

 

[Grenadeslio]

I never buy turntables that can't have a headshell removed .... With angular headshells ( like my 770 Kenwood), this checker works fine .....And besides - you can always make a new checker, for headshells of the most bizarre shapes . It's not difficult .

eliminating a lot of fine arms and tables that way

 

[ripblade]

Apparently overhang is 16mm and Luxman made no provision for helping users achieve that specific distance. Weird.

They mention the center of the slots is 9mm back. While not exactly precise, it is close enough for a time when obsessing over perfection to within a gnat's whisker was not commonplace.

 

[spark1]

Why calculate these distances ? This is measured directly on the tonearm . It is measured only once-after setting the effective length . And then you can use this data to make a checker of any design . And many manufacturers indicated the distance from the edge of the shell to the tip of the needle ( Pioneer, Kenwood, Technics, and many others ) ...... P.S - And in general, I believe that if the protractor is used, then it should be designed specifically for a specific model of the turntable . And universal protractors are not needed at all ...No one knows the features of a tonearm better than its manufacturer . And in the protractor, the data of the tonearm manufacturer must be observed .

I give up. I don't know if there is a communications problem or you are consciously choosing not to answer my question.

 

[ripblade]

Or are you saying that you use a protractor the first time you use a new cartridge to get desired alignment, then remove the headshell and measure the distance from collar to stylus?

Yes, that's what he is saying. Except maybe don't remove the shell...just measure...

 

[spark1]

Yes, that's what he is saying. Except maybe don't remove the shell...just measure...

The jig appears to provide measurement from the headshell collar gasket - which represents a "fixed" point on the toneram - to the stylus tip. I would think that the steps to use this jig, would be:

• Use protractor to obtain desired alignment
• Remove headshell
• Measure from stylus tip to edge of collar gasket

Now, when changing headshells or cartridges on this particular table/tonearm combination, you can use the jig to obtain the same alignment (or thereabouts).

Do I have this right? Thanks.

 

[JoeESP9]

All arms with an SME type bayonet head shell mount are not the same length.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But, doesn't the setting on the jig depend on the length of the tonearm? If so a jig is arm specific.

 

[ripblade]

The jig appears to provide measurement from the headshell collar gasket - which provides a "fixed" point on the toneram - to the stylus tip. I would think that the steps to use this jig, would be:

• Use protractor to obtain desired alignment
• Remove headshell
• Measure from stylus tip to edge of collar gasket

Now, when changing headshells or cartridges on this particular table/tonearm combination, you can use the jig to obtain the same alignment (or thereabouts).

Do I have this right?

Basically, except I don't believe the Luxman shell is intended to be replaced so routinely as the SME style would. The measurement would have to be taken without removing the shell, yet the resulting jig made from it would still work as intended provided it was made to work within this constraint.

 

[spark1]

All arms with an SME type bayonet head shell mount are not the same length.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But, doesn't the setting on the jig depend on the length of the tonearm? If so a jig is arm specific.

.As I see it, the jig being discussed is effectively just a measuring device - albeit a more accurate one than trying to use a ruler. So it is generic in the same way a ruler is. But the distance from the rear of the jig to the stylus is specific to the tonearm and chosen alignment.

Yes...I was referring to the jig in the photos...which is designed for use with removable headshells.

 

[ripblade]

Correct me if I'm wrong. But, doesn't the setting on the jig depend on the length of the tonearm? If so a jig is arm specific.

You are not wrong.

 

[spark1]

Basically, except I don't believe the Luxman shell is intended to be replaced so routinely as the SME style would. The measurement would have to be taken without removing the shell, yet the resulting jig made from it would still work as intended provided it was made to work within this constraint.

Yes...I was referring to the jig in the photos...which is designed for use with removable headshells.

 

[JoeESP9]

.As I see it, the jig being discussed is effectively just a measuring device - albeit a more accurate one than trying to use a ruler. So it is generic in the same way a ruler is. But the distance from the rear of the jig to the stylus is specific to the tonearm and chosen alignment.

Yes...I was referring to the jig in the photos...which is designed for use with removable headshells.

The scale on that particular jig makes it useable with multiple arms. You can use it to set the recommended overhang distance for a given arm. However, jigs that came with a given TT are specific to that arm only.

 

[spark1]

To summarize for OP: a jig will be of no use to you in establishing initial alignment.

If the manufacturer had provided a jig specific to this table/arm, then it COULD be used to approximate initial alignment. Or if they had provided a distance from a fixed spot on the tonearm to the stylus tip, you could make a jig or use a ruler to get duplicate that measurement.

In the absence of such a jig or such a measurement, the only way to get the stylus in (approximately) the right place would be to use a protractor of some sort. Once aligned, you could then use some reference spot or mark on the arm from which to measure distance to stylus. Then, when changing carts, you could use this measurement to obtain alignment.

Or just use a simple protractor.

 

[spark1]

The scale on that particular jig makes it useable with multiple arms. You can use it to set the recommended overhang distance for a given arm. However, jigs that came with a given TT are specific to that arm only.

Yes, assuming you know the required distance from the collar of the heashell to the stylus.

Not sure I would agree as regards jigs provided by manufacturers. Some, notably Technics and Pioneer, apply to a wide range of their tables/arms, with varying overhangs.

 

[JoeESP9]

They may be using different geometry, such as Lofgren (?), Baerwald or Stephenson. All three are valid. They're just different.

I've been using a DB Systems protractor since the early 1980's. It's one of the best audio investment I've ever made.

 

[spark1]

In my experience, the Japanese tables that came with jigs are approximating a Stephenson alignment.

 

[salamander]

eliminating a lot of fine arms and tables that way

I need the ability to quickly ( and easily ) replace the cartridge . I have several record players , several phono preamps , and periodically replace the cartridges ( along with the headshell). Therefore, tonearms without a removable headshell are inconvenient for me .

 

[salamander]

In my experience, the Japanese tables that came with jigs are approximating a Stephenson alignment.

This is not always the case . I did calculations of individual protractors for several Japanese turntables . And if you follow the factory data on the overhang and effective length, then the zero point distances did not always coincide with the Stevenson standard .