Kef 104/2 Reference Speakers

[canuckaudiog]

It's always fun to get new stuff!

Pretty much everything I've picked up since getting the IMF's has been an awesome experience. These speakers being no less.

I JUST got them into my listening room and are hooked up, haven't even listened to them yet. The camera is charging, so pics are still yet to come.

Condition is about 8/10 overall, grills need to be redone but that's no big deal. The donuts on the inner woofers looked okay but are dried out and will need to be replaced. Just firing them up now and when I have had some good time to listen to them I will post some preliminary impressions. However, I am going to reserve final judgment until they are completely restored.

As for the Kube, I have not heard back about the offer I have made. I am pretty much dead set on getting it though!

Edit:

Pics and more are in the Speakers thread: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=6388505#post6388505

 

[mech986]

Nice score, time to order up the surrounds and center donuts, you'll need to replace all at the same time - if one is going, the rest are not far behind, age and use wise. But its not particularly hard to do them, just getting them in and out is a bit of a challange - search for the threads on AK that discuss rebuilding them.

As for the crossovers, I'd listen to them carefully for awhile while doing research on KEF crossover mods - may want to check with Falcon again to see what they may have available.

 

[canuckaudiog]

Nice score, time to order up the surrounds and center donuts, you'll need to replace all at the same time - if one is going, the rest are not far behind, age and use wise. But its not particularly hard to do them, just getting them in and out is a bit of a challange - search for the threads on AK that discuss rebuilding them.

As for the crossovers, I'd listen to them carefully for awhile while doing research on KEF crossover mods - may want to check with Falcon again to see what they may have available.

As luck would have it, the surrounds on the B200 woofers inside the cabinet are using rubber surrounds! I only need to replace the donuts.

I am going to check out those mods, I had no idea there were some around. I'm always up for improving a speaker, if it is an improvement of course.

 

[icenine]

I would change the the inner foam rings....I still have to do that on mine. I would not touch the crossovers though unless the speakers do not sound good.

 

[baco99]

There was a set avail in MA for $400 recently.

 

[canuckaudiog]

I would change the the inner foam rings....I still have to do that on mine. I would not touch the crossovers though unless the speakers do not sound good.

The problem with electrolytic capacitors is they will degrade after 20-25 years. The Kef's might sound good, but without any frame of reference of how they sounded brand new it's impossible to say just how good they are supposed to sound. Replacing those capacitors is not only a good measure for sonics, but reliability as well. People worry too much about changing the voicing of the speaker - as long as you use suitable replacements, it will retain the voicing of the speaker just fine.

 

[audiodon]

When I bought the pair that Sancho22 has now, I replaced the B200 inner annuli (annuluses) and just ran them.
I found the crossover warmed up considerably after having charges in those caps for a while. Sustained playing was all it took.
Considering that these are complicated crossovers with pair-matched caps, I'd proceed with caution. I found a crossover update unnecessary. My take on it was, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Oh, and I like to use a sub below 60hz with these and tip them back a bit by putting some door wedges under the front feet/hidden spikes.

 

[canuckaudiog]

When I bought the pair that Sancho22 has now, I replaced the B200 inner annuli (annuluses) and just ran them.
I found the crossover warmed up considerably after having charges in those caps for a while. Sustained playing was all it took.
Considering that these are complicated crossovers with pair-matched caps, I'd proceed with caution. I found a crossover update unnecessary. My take on it was, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Oh, and I like to use a sub below 60hz with these and tip them back a bit by putting some door wedges under the front feet/hidden spikes.

I hear ya about the crossovers. I do know they aren't your typical crossover and I plan to do this properly. I'm doing my research and taking notes. I'm speaking with Jerry over at Falcon and we are going to come up with a game plan since he understands crossovers better than I and has the parts I want to use. I don't think it would be much problem to get matched pairs of capacitors specific for these. Worst case scenario, if it sounds worse, I can put the old capacitors back in. It will be a pain but I don't mind, I am almost certain changing the capacitors will make a positive improvement.

Spikes and tilting them back makes a lot of sense. I think raising them up a bit, too, would be helpful for imaging. I find my IMF's, which have the tweeters above ear level, image impeccably well. I have yet to position the Kef's in the sweet spot in my room, but so far I am less than impressed with the positioning of the imaging. Not that they don't image well, they do, but I find the tweeters being low cause the imaging to be close to the floor, making it seem vertically squished. We'll see what I can do to remedy that.

Other then that, the only other thing that will need to be taken care of is the ferro-fluid in the T33. I just have to find a suitable replacement ferro-fluid, and if anyone has a suggestion there I am all ears. I've e-mailed Kef about it, so hopefully I get a response from them about it but we shall see.

 

[Ohighway]

Spikes and tilting them back makes a lot of sense. I think raising them up a bit, too, would be helpful for imaging. I find my IMF's, which have the tweeters above ear level, image impeccably well. I have yet to position the Kef's in the sweet spot in my room, but so far I am less than impressed with the positioning of the imaging. Not that they don't image well, they do, but I find the tweeters being low cause the imaging to be close to the floor, making it seem vertically squished. We'll see what I can do to remedy that.

Other then that, the only other thing that will need to be taken care of is the ferro-fluid in the T33. I just have to find a suitable replacement ferro-fluid, and if anyone has a suggestion there I am all ears. I've e-mailed Kef about it, so hopefully I get a response from them about it but we shall see.

Mine already have spikes, which are hidden by rubber feet (mentioned by Audiodon above). So check yours. Also I have mine tilted upward/backward and it seems to help. I don't have a huge problem though as I listen about 15' - 18' back from mine, so the tweeter height isn't as critical as it would be for nearfield listening.

 

[canuckaudiog]

Mine already have spikes, which are hidden by rubber feet (mentioned by Audiodon above). So check yours. Also I have mine tilted upward/backward and it seems to help. I don't have a huge problem though as I listen about 15' - 18' back from mine, so the tweeter height isn't as critical as it would be for nearfield listening.

Ahh I should have read more closely!

You are right, in that case it's not as big of a deal. I sit about 6' away from the speakers so it's fairly near field for me.

 

[Ohighway]

The other reason I like them tilted back a bit is because they're face heavy. Tilting back helps offset that.

 

[icenine]

The problem with electrolytic capacitors is they will degrade after 20-25 years. The Kef's might sound good, but without any frame of reference of how they sounded brand new it's impossible to say just how good they are supposed to sound. Replacing those capacitors is not only a good measure for sonics, but reliability as well. People worry too much about changing the voicing of the speaker - as long as you use suitable replacements, it will retain the voicing of the speaker just fine.

You may be 100 percent correct...but mine sound so good I am not going to touch them. The British engineers knew what they were doing...

 

[canuckaudiog]

You may be 100 percent correct...but mine sound so good I am not going to touch them. The British engineers knew what they were doing...

If and when I do it, I'll be sure to post my impression of the sonics before and after.

 

[Raynald]

I hear ya about the crossovers. I do know they aren't your typical crossover and I plan to do this properly. I'm doing my research and taking notes. I'm speaking with Jerry over at Falcon and we are going to come up with a game plan since he understands crossovers better than I and has the parts I want to use. I don't think it would be much problem to get matched pairs of capacitors specific for these. Worst case scenario, if it sounds worse, I can put the old capacitors back in. It will be a pain but I don't mind, I am almost certain changing the capacitors will make a positive improvement.

Spikes and tilting them back makes a lot of sense. I think raising them up a bit, too, would be helpful for imaging. I find my IMF's, which have the tweeters above ear level, image impeccably well. I have yet to position the Kef's in the sweet spot in my room, but so far I am less than impressed with the positioning of the imaging. Not that they don't image well, they do, but I find the tweeters being low cause the imaging to be close to the floor, making it seem vertically squished. We'll see what I can do to remedy that.

Other then that, the only other thing that will need to be taken care of is the ferro-fluid in the T33. I just have to find a suitable replacement ferro-fluid, and if anyone has a suggestion there I am all ears. I've e-mailed Kef about it, so hopefully I get a response from them about it but we shall see.

Kef designed the 104.2 to disperse upwards a bit so they are fine as is for imaging BUT only if you are fairly far away. A simple trick I used when doing a demo in a small room was to remove the back feet. That and leaving the grilles off made a big difference.

 

[canuckaudiog]

Kef designed the 104.2 to disperse upwards a bit so they are fine as is for imaging BUT only if you are fairly far away. A simple trick I used when doing a demo in a small room was to remove the back feet. That and leaving the grilles off made a big difference.

Right now I have the spikes on and both washers on the front spikes - seems to work very well, but you are right they want me to be further away. This room is a bit small for them. The manual states 10 feet, and I must be about 5' from them right now. If I moved the IMF's out of here I could make it about 7.5-8', but that ain't happening any time soon.

Tilting them up though improved the image quite a bit. It's more realistic to how it should be.

 

[mech986]

As luck would have it, the surrounds on the B200 woofers inside the cabinet are using rubber surrounds! I only need to replace the donuts.

I am going to check out those mods, I had no idea there were some around. I'm always up for improving a speaker, if it is an improvement of course.

Hmmm, I've never heard of the 104/2 having rubber surrounds, can you post some pics of them? Did the previous owner mention whether they had ever been worked on?

We have a BT seller cdfac who has 4 of the 8 inch outer surrounds available as I've gotten some info from him that state they were for the 104/2 and 103/3 and he used only the inner donuts - the donuts are available separately from OCS and others too. You guys might want to get some spares.

 

[mech986]

As luck would have it, the surrounds on the B200 woofers inside the cabinet are using rubber surrounds! I only need to replace the donuts.

I am going to check out those mods, I had no idea there were some around. I'm always up for improving a speaker, if it is an improvement of course.

On further review, it appears some 104/2 may have been built with woofers that did have rubber surrounds like the 103/3 drivers, perhaps OE updated with those woofers during production - I'm sure that getting reports of foam disintegration during the late 80's when replacement foams were not available prompted that.

 

[canuckaudiog]

On further review, it appears some 104/2 may have been built with woofers that did have rubber surrounds like the 103/3 drivers, perhaps OE updated with those woofers during production - I'm sure that getting reports of foam disintegration during the late 80's when replacement foams were not available prompted that.

I was surprised to say the least. I touched it with my finger and, sure enough, it's rubber all right. I think there were only some 104/2's that used rubber, most were foam. I got lucky I suppose

 

[moinau]

but I find the tweeters being low cause the imaging to be close to the floor, making it seem vertically squished. We'll see what I can do to remedy that.

Other then that, the only other thing that will need to be taken care of is the ferro-fluid in the T33. I just have to find a suitable replacement ferro-fluid, and if anyone has a suggestion there I am all ears. I've e-mailed Kef about it, so hopefully I get a response from them about it but we shall see.

Hello,

Your T33 tweeter are rated 4 ohms, and if they are in good conditions, should read 3.1 ohms to 3.3 ohms
Also, If the liquid as harden-up , they will sound muffled (no life in them)
Test your speakers with females voices, guitars, especially banjos

Since KEF no longer have the original 104/2 tweeter, they can supply a substitute tweeter. These are different from the original tweeter, therefore they would need to be replaced in pairs.
These can be ordered direct by contacting
service@kef.com
The part No. is R1548X and the cost will be, approximately, £17 per tweeter plus carriage.
KEF AUDIO (UK) Limited / Celestion Consumer Division

The 104/2 is rated at 4 ohms resistive. They demand an amp rated at 4 ohms or better.
Your receiver, although rated at 63 watts, has an 8 ohms rated amp.
It will do at very moderate level, but you will never have the full capability of what these excellent speakers are capable of. I'm not talking about sound level, but the quality of the sound.

Changing your capas, I would contact KEF/Celestion about that, if I was you. But, at the end of the day, they are your speakers, you decide. :thmbsp:

 

[canuckaudiog]

Hello,

Your T33 tweeter are rated 4 ohms, and if they are in good conditions, should read 3.1 ohms to 3.3 ohms
Also, If the liquid as harden-up , they will sound muffled (no life in them)
Test your speakers with females voices, guitars, especially banjos

Since KEF no longer have the original 104/2 tweeter, they can supply a substitute tweeter. These are different from the original tweeter, therefore they would need to be replaced in pairs.
These can be ordered direct by contacting
service@kef.com
The part No. is R1548X and the cost will be, approximately, £17 per tweeter plus carriage.
KEF AUDIO (UK) Limited / Celestion Consumer Division

The 104/2 is rated at 4 ohms resistive. They demand an amp rated at 4 ohms or better.
Your receiver, although rated at 63 watts, has an 8 ohms rated amp.
It will do at very moderate level, but you will never have the full capability of what these excellent speakers are capable of. I'm not talking about sound level, but the quality of the sound.

Changing your capas, I would contact KEF/Celestion about that, if I was you. But, at the end of the day, they are your speakers, you decide. :thmbsp:

Wow thank you for all the information.

You are right, that they are 4 ohm speakers. I certainly understand what you are saying. My Sansui AU-9500 is in the shop right now, which I am going to try with the Kef's. If there's a big difference in sound level, I will seek out a 4 ohm stable amplifier/receiver to run with them. As is, they do sound great though

I think I may just replace the tweeters if they are that inexpensive. If they work just as well, or maybe even better, then I am happy with that.

Again thank you!