KLH Model 5 assistance

[KeithD]

Here's the link. I don't know the person or anything about the speakers, they've been on CL for at least 2 years.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/...klh-model-23-woofers-tweeters/7332482853.html

Yeah, I found them on CL. Don't know how I didn't remember those since I've been looking at Minnapolis CL for KLH speakers. Since those are easy to ship, I don't know why the seller would not list those on e-bay or reverb. Much more likely to sell there.

For now, planning to look at the set of Model 5s @Old Guy8 has. Much better condition than those in northern WI.

 

[1rebmem]

WTF...........you haven't bought them yet!

Make him an offer like doctor said..........something less than his asking $
Then you could wait for cabinets to pop up, 23's sound verrrrry good.
Or buy them and sell the parts on here. Always people looking for drivers for the KLHes

 

[alteclipsch]

WTF...........you haven't bought them yet!

Make him an offer like doctor said..........something less than his asking $
Then you could wait for cabinets to pop up, 23's sound verrrrry good.
Or buy them and sell the parts on here. Always people looking for drivers for the KLHes

Those have been on CL literally for years, renewed every few days. Given the increasing scarcity of these premium drivers, I'm surprised they're available. Maybe they're not.

 

[audiojones]

I think the Model Twelve woofer is different, something about the magnet. Never seen one though.

KLH 5 and 23 used the same woofer.
KLH 12 used a different woofer, more magnet material on the 12.

Nope, the very early version of the Twelve used a large three piece magnet as did the early version of the Model Five, however they were the same woofer. By the time the Twenty-Three came into production all three were all using the same 11 3/4” square magnet woofer.

 

[alteclipsch]

Nope, the very early version of the Twelve used a large three piece magnet as did the early version of the Model Five, however they were the same woofer. By the time the Twenty-Three came into production all three were all using the same 11 3/4” square magnet woofer.

Good to know, I've never heard that. Thanks for posting.

 

[1rebmem]

Well, there certainly is mixed info on whether the KLH 5's and 12's used the same woofer.

Nope, the very early version of the Twelve used a large three piece magnet as did the early version of the Model Five, however they were the same woofer.

I have several facts showing the woofers differ.

Here is a pic of of the woofer in my (I currently own them) KLH5's. Look close at the date on the woofer, it reads Sep 5 1968.
So my KHL5's are a very early version for the record. Note the magnet diameters and height.


Below is a pic from the following AK thread discussing the 5 and 12 woofer being different:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/klh-model-12-woofer.865232/

Are the two above woofers the same?

https://community.classicspeakerpag...-vs-five-drivers-another-piece-of-the-puzzle/

In the following link is factory KLH 5 ad and it states the KLH 12 uses the same mid and high frequency drivers as the KLH 5 speakers.
Because they don't say the woofer is shared also I take it to mean they are NOT the same woofers.
The wording is in the first paragraph, lines 12 & 13:
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/klh/klh_5_klh_model_five/klh_5_ads/klh_5_pg2.html

To me, the above facts prove that the KLH 5 uses a smaller magnet woofer than the KLH 12.
There are many pictures of KLH 12 woofers out there and I have not seen one with the skinny KHL 5 magnet.

And this KLH speaker database if interested:
http://www.aphenos.net/electronics/speakers/klh/all_klh.htm

Interesting stuff!
Jef

 

[1rebmem]

By the time the Twenty-Three came into production all three were all using the same 11 3/4” square magnet woofer.

Well............Nope.
I also own KLH 23's and the woofers have round magnets just like my 5's pictured above.
Both woofers are dated Sept 1968 which was the first year for the KLH 23.
KLH went to square magnets some time in the 1970's like about 1972.
So all 23's did NOT have square magnets as stated above.
I sold a pair of KLH 5's that and the woofers were stamped 1972, as were the crossover boards. Both woofer magnets were square.

Check here for when the KLH 23's were first sold;
http://www.aphenos.net/electronics/speakers/klh/all_klh.htm
Same year as the 5's........

Jef

 

[hornbostel]

Indeed later model KLH 23 had square magnets. My 23s have a date stamp of Sept 1974. It’s a substantial/heavy woofer! The KLH 23 is a ridiculously good speaker. And it has to be one of the best looking speakers of the era.

 

[alteclipsch]

The KLH 23 is a ridiculously good speaker. And it has to be one of the best looking speakers of the era.

That is the best description yet of the KLH Model Twenty Three.

 

[audiojones]

Very compelling pics, thanks! I have to say I have never run across a Model Twelve with the large magnet structure woofer but I have seen many that have been disassembled (some right here on AK) and they all had the large square magnet woofer. I have seen the round magnet woofer from the early Five in only one pair, the large square magnet woofer in all of the others. We were discussing this in detail on Classic Speaker Pages at least 15 years ago (probably longer, back around when they had the big format change) and it was determined that the later production models of all three had the same large square magnet woofer (it's actually a 10 3/4" frame, not 11 3/4" as I said earlier). The square magnet was used in the Five around the same time they went to a circuit board crossover instead of the old point to point crossover. One of the multiple pairs of Fives I've had over the years had the square magnets and the circuit board crossover and they were stamped 1969 so they must have started a little earlier than the 70's. There is a lot of information stating that the Twenty-Three was done in 1972 but I've heard people state that they have date stamps on theirs later than that so take the information on that chart with a grain of salt, they may have discontinued the model from their lineup but continued production until all stock was used up.

The 1967 pair of Model Fives I had used these woofers:



My previous 1969 pair of Fives and my current 1972 Fives use these woofers. These are the only ones I have ever seen in all of the many Model Twenty-Three loudspeakers I have worked on for people over the years and of the many pairs I have owned (still have two pairs here):

This is also the one I have seen repeatedly used in the Model Twelve. Perhaps they are later production versions of that model but I know for sure that they had these woofers. So yes, quite a bit mixed information surrounding what woofers KLH used in which loudspeaker system but like all manufacturers I'm sure they went through production changes as the bean counters dictated. I have worked on and looked at a ton of these over the past 30+ years and this is what I've seen. Judging from the good information gleaned here I'd say it's probably safer to say the Model Five, Model Twenty-Three and (depending on the production date) the Model Twelve share the same woofer.

 

[GD70]

My Twenty Threes were circa October 69, woofers had square magnets.
Resto thread.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/klh-twenty-three-restoration-pics.649507/

 

[RxDx]

... There is a lot of information stating that the Twenty-Three was done in 1972 but I've heard people state that they have date stamps on theirs later than that so take the information on that chart with a grain of salt, they may have discontinued the model from their lineup but continued production until all stock was used up.

For my list, the only written information asserting a date I've encountered is the
wildly inaccurate chart at CSP. Buyers guides I've found start at '74, by which
time the Twenty Three is no longer listed.

 

[1rebmem]

So through this discussion we all agree there are no cut n dried rules as to what KLH did.........

There is no telling for sure, if a speaker cabinet has all the correct original drivers after 50 years.

I know some Acoustic Research cabinets have date code stamps inside into the wood which helps to date a speaker. Along with the cap date codes and driver dates, a person could almost certainly determine how complete original their speakers are.
Did KLH date stamp the cabinets inside somehow?
I don't recall.

That KLH ad does indicate the woofers were different. But I guess they could have slipped in a 5 woofer into a 12 cabinet if short on 12 woofers? Maybe?
In one of the above links I stuck in above, Tom Tyson of AR fame thinks the large KLH 12 cabinets would dictate a larger woofer magnet. When he speaks everyone listens:
https://community.classicspeakerpages.net/topic/2500-klh-twelve-woofers/

*****Does anyone have a square magnet woofer pic showing a date stamp pre 1970?****
I'd LOVE to see one!
Tks.

 

[hornbostel]

For my list, the only written information asserting a date I've encountered is the
wildly inaccurate chart at CSP. Buyers guides I've found start at '74, by which
time the Twenty Three is no longer listed.

Here is the image of the stamp on my KLH 23s. Looks like 1974. Similar stamps appear in my two pairs of KLH 20s (indicating 1969) and KLH 22s (indicating 1967). Those stamps are consistent with when these models were offered.
I could not find a date stamp on the KLH 23 woofers. No dates on the tweeters either, but also square magnets. But square magnets, of course. Also the serial #s on my 23's are large, #396xx.

 

[audiojones]

In one of the above links I stuck in above, Tom Tyson of AR fame thinks the large KLH 12 cabinets would dictate a larger woofer magnet. When he speaks everyone listens.

When the accountants at Singer Corp. spoke I’ll bet KLH acted.

 

[1rebmem]

Since it's raining out I was perusing the KLH forum over at Classic Speaker Pages for a woofer determination (based on audiojones suggestion above) and found this statement from a KLH national service manager who contributed to the CSP forum for a couple of years:


From this thread:
https://community.classicspeakerpages.net/topic/2547-model-5-and-23-woofers/

Here is the link where identifies himself as the KLH national service manager from 1971 to 1978:
https://community.classicspeakerpages.net/topic/2528-introduction-klh-service-manager/

I'm guessing he referenced his notes when making the statement. Versus relying on memory.
Unless he is a rain man type who memorizes part numbers.

The unresolved plot only thickens.......

 

[1rebmem]

Still raining so check this out........


Came from this thread:
https://community.classicspeakerpag...ther-hole-in-my-klh-collection-filled/page/2/

 

[1rebmem]

Here is a KLH 17 square magnet woofer dated July 1967.
It's the earliest square magnet KLH woofer I've been able to find.

 

[KeithD]

Update: I bought a set of KLH 5's from fellow AK member:


Look and sound great. Then yesterday a friend gave me these:



Early, sealed cabinet 6's. No sound from tweeters, but hoping a recap will solve that!

 

[alteclipsch]

So far, you're batting 1,000.

Two of KLH's very best.

I guess get ready for some skinned knuckles. But they're worth it!