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KLH Twenty Three Restoration-PICS

Aaron S said:
Thanks for the response, Glenn! I did use a cloth to wipe it on, but did not allow the later coats to cure for a full 24 hours before reapplication...I’m thinking this was my error.

the Watco can instructions say to apply the first two coats relatively close together, 15-20 mins I believe. Is this what you do, or do you wait for the first coat to cure For a few hours before applying the second coat? Thanks again!
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When I apply the oil, there is no left over to wipe off. The application is very light, and yes, I apply the first three coats I the first hour or so.

Sanding with the 600 grit wet-dry works great as well. I did this on the top caps of my Time Windows, and it’s very smooth.

Glenn
 
GD70 said:
When I apply the oil, there is no left over to wipe off. The application is very light, and yes, I apply the first three coats I the first hour or so.

Sanding with the 600 grit wet-dry works great as well. I did this on the top caps of my Time Windows, and it’s very smooth.

Glenn
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Okay, I think I likely put it on to thick initially as well. Thanks for all the great info, Glen! One last question. Once your happy with the finish, and it has fully cured, do you treat with any kind of finishing wax or paste?
 
Aaron S said:
Okay, I think I likely put it on to thick initially as well. Thanks for all the great info, Glen! One last question. Once your happy with the finish, and it has fully cured, do you treat with any kind of finishing wax or paste?
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You bet!
No wax. Once you put wax on it, you’re stuck. With the oil finish, you can reapply it every year or two to freshen it up if you want.
Also, if there’s ever any future damage, say a corner gets accidentally damaged from moving them, the repair, and matching the existing finish is much easier.

Glenn
 
GD70 said:
You bet!
No wax. Once you put wax on it, you’re stuck. With the oil finish, you can reapply it every year or two to freshen it up if you want.
Also, if there’s ever any future damage, say a corner gets accidentally damaged from moving them, the repair, and matching the existing finish is much easier.

Glenn
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Glen, sorry to keep blowing you up in this post, but your finishes always look so good, and I'm in seeking some advice. You're previous comments have been truly helpful! I just came up on a very nice pair of Klipsch KG4's. The cabinets are in excellent condition, however the finish is a bit dull, and they feel a bit rough to the touch. I don't exactly want to entirely sand them down and refinish them (I'm enjoying listening to them too much at the moment to take them out of commision), but I would be interested in making them feel smooth again, and I would like to restore some of the finishes original luster. Could I achieve this without extensive sanding and refinishing? Would it be possible to use a very fine grit, 400 or 600 sandpaper to "knock" the bumps down, and then refinish with a couple coats of Watco? Would steel wool be better? Or, is it a bad idea to leave any of the original finish on there, and ultimately, if I want them to look fresh again, I need to remove all the original finish and add an entirely new one? Thanks in advance!

-Aaron
 
Aaron S said:
Glen, sorry to keep blowing you up in this post, but your finishes always look so good, and I'm in seeking some advice. You're previous comments have been truly helpful! I just came up on a very nice pair of Klipsch KG4's. The cabinets are in excellent condition, however the finish is a bit dull, and they feel a bit rough to the touch. I don't exactly want to entirely sand them down and refinish them (I'm enjoying listening to them too much at the moment to take them out of commision), but I would be interested in making them feel smooth again, and I would like to restore some of the finishes original luster. Could I achieve this without extensive sanding and refinishing? Would it be possible to use a very fine grit, 400 or 600 sandpaper to "knock" the bumps down, and then refinish with a couple coats of Watco? Would steel wool be better? Or, is it a bad idea to leave any of the original finish on there, and ultimately, if I want them to look fresh again, I need to remove all the original finish and add an entirely new one? Thanks in advance!

-Aaron
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Hi Aron,

No worries!
These have oak veneer, correct? You'll need to figure out what the original finish is, ie; oil, lacquer, etc... Can probably find out on line, or is there a sticker on the backs of yours that say what it is.
Then that will determine how long they will be out of commission. Oil, you can apply and they will be fine in 24 hours. If lacquer, then they need to be refinished outside in a garage or some shelter, as it stinks.
If lacquer, a simple spray lacquer will give you great results. The gloss level is your choice.
I'd sand them with 400 & 600 grit until smooth. I don't use steel wool because it can leave small metal fibers stuck in the wood.

Hope this helps, Glenn
 
GD70 said:
Hi Aron,

No worries!
These have oak veneer, correct? You'll need to figure out what the original finish is, ie; oil, lacquer, etc... Can probably find out on line, or is there a sticker on the backs of yours that say what it is.
Then that will determine how long they will be out of commission. Oil, you can apply and they will be fine in 24 hours. If lacquer, then they need to be refinished outside in a garage or some shelter, as it stinks.
If lacquer, a simple spray lacquer will give you great results. The gloss level is your choice.
I'd sand them with 400 & 600 grit until smooth. I don't use steel wool because it can leave small metal fibers stuck in the wood.

Hope this helps, Glenn
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This is great. They do have a sticker on the back of them. I'll check it when I get home. You are a gentleman and a scholar, sir!
 
Oh Glenn... Just read through this post, mostly skipping to the speaker porn repair pics, and it was oh soooo satisfying. :beatnik:

Very sexy... I have a pair of Cornwall's that fits the bill for almost these exact repairs. Can't wait to get started and take my time. I will come back and read more thoroughly before I get started.

You da MAN!!
 
HBTim said:
Oh Glenn... Just read through this post, mostly skipping to the speaker porn repair pics, and it was oh soooo satisfying. :beatnik:

Very sexy... I have a pair of Cornwall's that fits the bill for almost these exact repairs. Can't wait to get started and take my time. I will come back and read more thoroughly before I get started.

You da MAN!!
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Hey Tim,

Thanks for dredging through my long thread! It was a pretty extensive repair job, but fun and satisfying.
Once you get started, feel free to let me know if you have any questions.

Cheers, Glenn
 
I enjoyed this thread after just scoring a very nice pair of KLH 23s. Fantastic work on your!. Mine are in decent cosmetic condition but the sonics are lacking. I believe they need new caps on those tweets and some of that surround dope, which I found on eBay. Can you please tell me what specific caps you used as replacements and where I can find them? I have not done a project like this so sorry if I'm asking something obvious here.
 
Great news on your newly acquired 23's @DJ_MJ! Also, welcome to the AK forum, I hope that you enjoy your time here. As far as what type/brand of capacitors to use, that is a greatly debated topic here on AK. Here are a few thoughts, I have used the cheap house brand from Parts Express for many crossovers and I was never dissatisfied with the results. Personally, I try to replace capacitors with the same type they used when manufactured. The reason why is because I try to keep them as original as possible. Is it the best or correct logical choice? I cannot tell you the answer. There are many types of capacitors that will provide a different sound / quality(s), and your ears can only judge what you like for the better or worse. Since shipping is going to be high compared to the cost of the actual capacitors I suggest that you order a few different types and experiment a little if you like, or make it simple and order what most people do, the Daytons. For an extra dollar I say grab a couple of the cheap house brand and compare the two by simply placing a jumper wire in place and test before you decide and solder in place. Just a note, clip the wires from the original capacitor right next to the body so you have a piece of wire to connect the jumper wires for testing. Listen and make a choice and solder the new ones in. Don't forget to order a can of DeOxit to clean the switches. Keep us posted.
 
DJ_MJ said:
Thanks for the info. Already have the Deox and ordered some Daytons from Parts Express. Looking forward to getting these things spruced up.
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Hey DJ!

Thanks for slugging through this thread!
These are terrific speakers once restored. I think you’ll be impressed. These are also great for a first time crossover recap, being only one cap is necessary.
When you get a chance, post some pics!

Cheers Glenn
 
Hi Glenn,

Thank you for starting this post!! The restoration on your model 23s was impeccable.

I have both KLH 23s and 17s and both are keepers in my opinion. I definitely prefer the 23s for their excellent bass and the 17s for their excellent midrange.

But if I were to choose one....it would have to be the 23s for their magical and warm bass, bass you can feel and bass that triggers a positive emotional response

I would like to first thank everyone on this site for sharing invaluable knowledge and experience.

I posted the below post in vintage asylum but did not receive any replies, so I hope someone might be able to help me here on AudioKarma -

I hope someone with experience adding resistors in series with woofers or at the speaker terminal of acoustic suspension designs might be able to offer some help or guidance.

I have been pondering the idea of adding a 0.3 ohm resistor in series with the woofer of my KLH model 23 (many on the internet suggest not to do this).

The initial reason behind this decision being I want to add a low DCR air core inductor (0.09 dcr) in place of the current iron core inductor (~0.4 dcr) and I thought the 0.3 ohm resistor would account for the approximate 0.3 reduction in DCR to keep the original voicing of the speaker.

Also, I would like to add a 1 ohm resistor at the speaker terminal to account for my Sony STR-V4 having a higher damping factor and a lower output impedance than a tube amp.

I hope you guys don't mind sharing some of your knowledge and wisdom on what I have suggested doing - would you guys recommend the addition of both resistors? only one of the resistors? or none at all?

As a side note - some KLH speakers have nothing in series with the woofer (e.g. Model 17), but the model 23 has a 0.4mH inductor in series with the woofer.

Any help or guidance will be greatly appreciated

Regards,
Phillip
 
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IMHO, don't do it. The 23's are a very well regarded 2-way speaker and anything you do with the crossover will effect the original voicing, even replacement of the original capacitor. If you have not performed the usual maintenance on them I suggest you do so and give them another evaluation. Your speakers, time, money, and ears. There is much more to a crossover besides DCR. I'm sure others will be along shortly to provide more input that may help more than I did. Also, a belated welcome to the AK forum!
 
Thanks for the welcome and your advice! I have recently performed the usual maintenance - replaced the 4.0 uF cap with same value cap and resealed the woofer surrounds with the sealant sold by Vintage-AR.

I now have around 300+ hours on them post maintenance.

The speakers definitely changed for the better (input here all audiophile superlatives) with one associated negative.....they sound more "forceful" in the bass and upper frequencies....definitely not as laid back as they were before the maintenance.

And I am afraid if I add an air core inductor the same things will happen - a lot of positive changes to the bass region with the associated negative of more "forcefulness".

So, my thought process for potentially adding the resistors would be to tame down this "forcefulness" I am hearing, but hopefully keep all of the positive attributes I am also hearing from the cap replacement and the redoping of the woofer surrounds and the potential positive change if I add an air core inductor.
 
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Phillip007 said:
Thanks for the welcome and your advice! I have recently performed the usual maintenance - replaced the 4.0 uF cap with same value cap and resealed the woofer surrounds with the sealant sold by Vintage-AR.

I now have around 300+ hours on them post maintenance.

The speakers definitely changed for the better (input here all audiophile superlatives) with one associated negative.....they sound more "forceful" in the bass and upper frequencies....definitely not as laid back as they were before the maintenance.

And I am afraid if I add an air core inductor the same things will happen - a lot of positive changes to the bass region with the associated negative of more "forcefulness".

So, my thought process for potentially adding the resistors would be to tame down this "forcefulness" I am hearing, but hopefully keep all of the positive attributes I am also hearing from the cap replacement and the redoping of the woofer surrounds and the potential positive change if I add an air core inductor.
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I welcome you to AK too. I've learned a lot from all the knowledgeable members here.

It seems to me that you are hearing what a restored set of Model 23's sound like. Doping the woofer surrounds restores the bass response. That means you should be hearing a lot more bass than before. If it seems like too much, make sure you are not using the loudness or bass controls. I run my preamp flat. Before restoring, adding extra bass helped. It is not needed after doping the surrounds.

As for the high end, that sounds normal to me. Have you adjusted the tweeter control on the back?

Some advocate adding a 0.3 to 0.5 ohm resistor in series with a new film cap to achieve the same resistance as the original electrolytic cap's ESR. This is not necessary when the speaker has a resistive attenuator in the crossover like the 23 has. The 0.3 ohm change in ESR of a film cap is lost in comparison to the much larger resistor values in the switched crossover adjustment.

I have many KLH speakers (2 pair of Model 6, one pair of 5, 17, 20, and 23). Before restoring, the were "laid back," excessively so. After recapping and doping the surrounds, I would not consider them laid back. Instead, I find that they have solid bass and very good highs. I've measured the FR response before and after restoring. There was a marked difference in all cases, with the after FR being much more flat over wider range (because they go deeper after doping the surrounds).

If you think the FR of your speakers are off, you could use a phone app to quickly measure it. I play noise to the speakers and use the Decibel X app on my iPhone so see a FR curve. It is not as precise as using a calibrated mic, but it gives a good indication of what the speaker is doing, particularly if the speaker is audibly not performing as you think it should.
 
Since you performed the usual, just listen to them for a few weeks and you should realize that they are great speakers!
 
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