Klipsch Epic Owners?

[avguytx]

Ok, so this sub forum is crowded with all the Heritage guys and threads, modifications, new builds, etc. Where are all you Epic CF people at? Get in here and post some cool stuff in this thread...or make a new one!

I know, I know....our speakers need the least amount of "help" in comparison to the others.

(got to rile people up some way or another...)

 

[cubdog]

I use 4 CF3 v2 in my HT setup. I had a pair of CF3 v1s as well but sold those some time ago. I've had RF7 IIs as well as Cornwalls and KF4s. The Epics are my favorite.

 

[DEFTECHY]

Was a long time Epic CF4 V2 owner... got the K-horn bug and sold them to help fund the K-horns. Quickly realized the K-horns are very touchy tempermental speakers that need the right room (I had perfect basement corners but too small of a room) and right gear to power them, overbearing mids, time alignment issues, toe in/out limitations etc etc. Sure do miss the Epics that did everything great, best klipsch speakers I have ever owned!

Now have Chorus 2 and Forte 2 with UPGRADED titanium tweeters & capacitors, running dual SVS subs, better in almost every way than the K-horns in my room and my system.

Hope to find another set of Epics someday!

 

[avguytx]

Yeah, I've thought many times about getting a set of Khorns but I will NOT pay the stupid prices that they, and many other things, are going for these day. it's just not that important to me. They would have to go on the short wall, 15' width, and fire into the room that's 28 feet deep (above 3 car garage). I sit about 14 feet back which seems like would be too far from their "sweet spot" and I don't want to go replacing equipment and dicking around with everything constantly. The CF-3's sound great, with the Sunfire sub, so I've about just decided that it's fun to look for things but just be content with what I have and be happy I'm still 6 feet above ground. lol

I'm on my 3rd set of CF-3's at this point. Had a set of Oak v3's that @hogwylde09 has now as I sold them after I built a pair of Belle inspired clones. I just never warmed up to how the Belle's sounded with their lack of low bass (had a sub though) and were picky like Khorns. Ended up trading my clones for 2 pairs of CF-3's, both in satin black. One set was v2's and looked almost mint and the other pair were v1's but the factory paint job looks like a$$ so those are getting stripped and veneered with real wood veneer sometime soon. I sold off the v2's as I didn't need 2 sets but really, there's not a ton of difference in the two. Some actually prefer the v2's and 3's that "fixed" some of the issues that the v1's had...according to dealers.

 

[DEFTECHY]

Theres still some decent deals to be found on K-horns and other models, but i agree 100%, prices are crazy the last few years and the "flippers" out there make it worse... just look at ebay for people "trying" to sell chorus1 for $2500 or forte1 for $1500 and alll other models are 2-3x what they should be selling for.

My room is similar sized, they had to be on the short wall and my seating position was back out of their sweet spot, bass was nice when it was right but seemed like every recording required EQ adjustments to sound balanced, and many simply sounded like crap on them, but sounded fine on all other speakers, just too darned picky and finicky for me. They looked awesome though in oiled walnut! I would have held on to them but had an offer for 2x what i paid 7 or 8 years ago, probably would have sold for $1000 more today.

My CF4 were satin black too, didnt mind it too much but the wood colored ones are nicer. I'm sure you know but the veneer under the black is the same real wood they used on other speakers, it's usually oak. Ive seen lots of satin black speakers be stripped and oiled or stained the veneer underneath, if its in good shape would be a lot easier than doing a reveneer.

Reviews are all over the place on V1,2, 3, some say the V1 is the best sounding but as you know dealers and customers didnt like them too much which is why they were changed 2 more times in their short run. In hindsight I think most of the bad reviews were because people werent used to the new different sound of the Epics vs other traditional klipsch models, today they are considered one of the best models klipsch ever made! All in all I know I liked my cf4s better than the K-horns in almost every category!

 

[tomlinmgt]

Ahh...the Epics. I have CF-4's v3 and here is my story with them...

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...altec-19-substitute-klipsch-epic-cf-4.900416/

Ultimately, I was able to move them from the living room space to the acoustically optimized garage listening space, if only briefly.




In that setting they truly blossomed, giving me glimpses of what is possible in a room with better acoustics, a few choice tweaks and better upstream electronics. Soon after, I lost that garage listening space for good (had to convert it back to a proper garage) and the Epics got moth balled. But since then I've built a 19x26 (vaulted ceiling) listening space/drum studio that will be several steps beyond what I was able to accomplish in the garage space with regard to room acoustics/tuning. I'm nearing completion of that project, and the CF-4's will be the first speakers I'll try when it's time to set up my first system in there.

 

[tomlinmgt]

Theres still some decent deals to be found on K-horns and other models, but i agree 100%, prices are crazy the last few years and the "flippers" out there make it worse... just look at ebay for people "trying" to sell chorus1 for $2500 or forte1 for $1500 and alll other models are 2-3x what they should be selling for.

My room is similar sized, they had to be on the short wall and my seating position was back out of their sweet spot, bass was nice when it was right but seemed like every recording required EQ adjustments to sound balanced, and many simply sounded like crap on them, but sounded fine on all other speakers, just too darned picky and finicky for me. They looked awesome though in oiled walnut! I would have held on to them but had an offer for 2x what i paid 7 or 8 years ago, probably would have sold for $1000 more today.

My CF4 were satin black too, didnt mind it too much but the wood colored ones are nicer. I'm sure you know but the veneer under the black is the same real wood they used on other speakers, it's usually oak. Ive seen lots of satin black speakers be stripped and oiled or stained the veneer underneath, if its in good shape would be a lot easier than doing a reveneer.

Reviews are all over the place on V1,2, 3, some say the V1 is the best sounding but as you know dealers and customers didnt like them too much which is why they were changed 2 more times in their short run. In hindsight I think most of the bad reviews were because people werent used to the new different sound of the Epics vs other traditional klipsch models, today they are considered one of the best models klipsch ever made! All in all I know I liked my cf4s better than the K-horns in almost every category!

And yet another testimony from someone who has owned both K-horns and CF-4's that claims the CF-4's are the personal preference. I don't have much experience with K-horns...the only time I heard a pair was during an audition with a set that was for sale. Hooked up to nice Mac tube amps and in a room that was maybe a little small for them, I wasn't compelled to buy them (and the price was quite reasonable and their condition near mint). I already had Altec 19's at the time, and simply heard nothing from the K-horns that was a noteworthy improvement over the Altecs and several things that weren't as good...so I passed. You generally don't see many comments about great image and sound stage resolution from the K-horns, so I've often wondered how good they really can be in that regard. If they have time alignment issues, then that explains a lot.

 

[tomlinmgt]

Not much traffic here I see...which, to me, is simply more evidence that the -3 and -4 Epic models just haven't been experienced by many in the hobby. And that comes as no surprise considering their brief production run and poor sales figures. But we know what's up...don't we(?)...hehe

 

[avguytx]

Not much traffic here I see...which, to me, is simply more evidence that the -3 and -4 Epic models just haven't been experienced by many in the hobby. And that comes as no surprise considering their brief production run and poor sales figures. But we know what's up...don't we(?)...hehe

I'm always looking out for CF-3's and 4's just to see what the going rate is around the area and the country. Seems like the overpriced peak pricing for them has calmed down some. I thought for awhile I wanted to sell mine but decided it really wasn't worth it as it would take too much more money to replace what they do. They are quite versatile in their placement and the genre of music you throw at them. Between them and the ads L1230's, which get less and less use, I've been content overall. Always looking but content, nevertheless.

 

[Dale A B]

I've had 1995 CF4 V3 for many years. Have my Heresy II's & Polk Monitor 7C in backup roles.

Used to have extra speakers that i sold over the years:

Forte 2
KG4
KG 5.2
RF 3
Koss CM1030
JBL 4311B
Boston Acoustics A150 & 100.
KLH 6

I don't upgrade equipment or buying physical media either - Streaming 75% of the time.

 

[Fury161]

Ugh... there's a pair for sale on the Marketplace near me. I've been tempted to check them out but the living room isn't *that* big and Mrs Fury is very accommodating of my hoarding ... err ... collecting. I figure best not to poke the bear too much... haha

 

[avguytx]

Ugh... there's a pair for sale on the Marketplace near me. I've been tempted to check them out but the living room isn't *that* big and Mrs Fury is very accommodating of my hoarding ... err ... collecting. I figure best not to poke the bear too much... haha

Which ones are they? How big of a room would they go into? They are fairly flexible on their location unless it's way too small. I'm in the camp that believes that it *is* possible to put too big of speakers in too small of a room...they just don't mesh well. But CF-3's and 4's can easily replace many beloved speakers out there if the space is right. They are quite surprising and being front ported makes them pretty flexible. Mine are 6" from the wall, on a wall 15' wide and are 10' apart, and I sit 12' back...unless reclined. Lol.

 

[Fury161]

Which ones are they? How big of a room would they go into? They are fairly flexible on their location unless it's way too small. I'm in the camp that believes that it *is* possible to put too big of speakers in too small of a room...they just don't mesh well. But CF-3's and 4's can easily replace many beloved speakers out there if the space is right. They are quite surprising and being front ported makes them pretty flexible. Mine are 6" from the wall, on a wall 15' wide and are 10' apart, and I sit 12' back...unless reclined. Lol.

CF-3's. It's an ok sized room but the layout is just a bit awkward. So I have my eye on them but I'm also eyeing up a pair for Forte IV's too. If he drops the price, I might have to bite anyways....

 

[avguytx]

Probably be easier to place the CF-3's than the rear passive F4's. Those definitely need some distance from the wall. Nice speakers, though.

 

[Bushikan]

Klipschorns get bashed a lot—and for good reason: they’re often misused and abused. People put them in their 7-foot-tall basements and in small, spare bedrooms, spaced 4 or 5 feet apart, with no or inadequate corners, and powered by the wrong electronics.

Simply put (as has been said here): KHorns are extremely temperamental, sensitive, and revealing, and they require proper placement and the right electronics and source material to blossom.

They are completely unforgiving. They take no prisoners. The room—a literal extension of the bass horn—is extremely important. They demand not just corners but to be sealed to good, solid, stiff corners. And I can’t stress enough that Klipschorns require tall ceilings.

PWK stipulated that the ceiling needs to be a MINIMUM of 8 1/2’ high. KHorns need to air out in big rooms—not just with big square footage but with gobs of cubic feet. That’s when they begin to stretch out and let loose and really run and soar. That’s when they absolutely amaze with huge, concert-venue-sized images. Otherwise, they’re like lions restricted in tiny cages. I’ve heard KHorns sound horrible/ridiculous when set up (even at dealerships) in small rooms with low ceilings, powered with expensive SS amps.

I’ve discovered that Klipschorns love tubes. KHorns sound fantastic in my room: 15’ W x 20’ L x 10’ H, with the speakers on the long wall and the listening position 15’ away on the opposite wall (powered with McIntosh tube amp and tube preamp)—where the speakers’ sweet spot crosses just in front of the listener. The room’s walls are also made of solid, thick timber covered In horsehair plaster. (I think this helps.) They work spectacularly, producing a huge, wide, deep, and TALL soundstage—with lifelike, life-sized images. Singers seem actually to be standing there in the room. Even whole orchestras.

Basically, if you heard Klipschorns and they sounded bad to you, they probably actually did—but for reasons beyond their control.

 

[DEFTECHY]

K-horns are obviously great speakers, but if they require so many specifics to sound good, are they really that good? Majority of people are limited by their room/house/system/budget, they just want a speaker that will sound good without all those requirements/limitations, a speaker should sound good in most all situations with less than perfect recordings. My room didnt have 8.5' ceilings but are close to 8', had perfect corners and were sealed tight, were about 12" apart, listening position was about 12' back, had decent "mid-fi" SS separates. All other klipsch and other brand speakers I had/have in the same spot on the same gear sound great with none of the temperamental issues or overbearing mids of the K horns. Recordings that sound fine on other speakers sound like crap on the K-horns which I have heard a lot of reviews say the same, some say K-horns show the bad recording that other speakers dont, but if you cant listen to over half your music collection, thats kind of counter-productive.

Dont get me wrong, I lusted after K-horns since I was in my early teens, but I didnt have an experienced ear and mostly liked their looks/size... and they were loud! Once I owned them I quickly noticed the problems I mentioned above and that Ive read about from many others that didnt like them, most had good corners or room size, fact is they have lots of common complaints. They can & do sound excellent when the stars are aligned right, but for myself and many others, they are just too finicky and I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars for special tube amps & other high end gear just to get them to sound right.

 

[avguytx]

I did like the Khorns I had for the short time but they were so room, equipment, and music dependent, that was a big reason to sell them. I had a 22 x 20 living room at the time (odd layout though) and they just didn't work where many others did with no major work required. Same thing happened with both sets of Altec Valencia's I had around the same time. Both are a love/hate style of speakers pretty much how the La Scala's, Belle's, Cornwalls, etc., are; you really have to either like that signature sound, or enjoy changing all your gear out, or listening to certain music to bring out the "best" in them. That's too much work for the eclectic range I listen to plus I just don't like dicking around with the system continuously. Epic's just drop in and work with the least amount of fudging around. Too bad they can't come up with a new version of those as they were way ahead of their time. But, I guess it's ride on the coat tails of what's been around forever. Nothing against that....it's business.

 

[Bushikan]

I think all great speakers (at least all I’ve owned and heard) require a lot of attention relative to placement and synergy/matching with room and electronics. My experience: Most great HiFi kit is not merely plug-and-play to bring out the best in it.

But: Check out the new Klipsch Jubilee. They were designed by PWK to replace the Klipschorn. They’re not cheap: $36K; and require biamping. They are also huge (over 4 feet wide and nearly 6 feet tall). But they also can be driven with flea amps and are much more forgiving and much better than the Klipschorn on all fronts. They sound best in big rooms. But they also can still shine in smaller rooms and benefit from but don’t require that they be placed in corners.

 

[Bushikan]

Interestingly enough, years ago, I had an email exchange with the late Art Dudley at Stereophile. He told me that he had requested a pair of Klipschorns from Klipsch for review in the magazine. In response, they told him to send a detailed layout of his room and furnishings and it’s dimensions, along with photographs of where the Klipschorns would be placed, before they’d send him a pair and agree to let him review them professionally. After he complied, they rejected his offer. His room was too small; his ceiling height was inadequate; and a baseboard heater and shallow corner were the reasons for their refusal. He completely respected them for it. Obviously, one’s listening room is one of the most important and decisive parts of one’s stereo system. Can’t drive an Indy car on a go kart track.

 

[avguytx]

Ok, I'd rather not cloud an Epic thread with Klipschorn stuff. There's plenty of threads about those for the ones who indulge.