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klipschorn questions

waffleboy

AK Subscriber
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ok, I am a proud owner of a pair of 1976 Cornwalls that I LOVE. Had them for years

Just last week an opportunity came up to get a pair of 1985 Khorns. birch. Appear to be in perfect shape and have not been modded

first question - If I love Cornwalls will I love Khorns even more? The consensus seems to be yes but am looking for comments.

I know khorns are a bit more placement sensitive but I think I have AT WORST a good space for them

second question - I guess the consensus is now to enclose the backs of Khorns? I have good corners but I understand (I think) the reasoning and benefits of closing up the backs. Looking for thoughts and those with first hand experience. I am a pretty good woodworker so I should be able to do the modifications myself

Obviously, the khorns are more $$$$ but just to have the chance.....
 
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I bought Cornwalls first, then Khorns. First off, I'm not one for modifications.

When we auditioned the Khorns, they were standing in the middle of a garage - no corners. When the owner fired up "Hotel California", wifey's eyes lit up. She wasn't keen on the size of them, but the sound tipped her over, and we had a large room. Even though the corners were less that what is recommended, they still sounded awesome.

We recently moved into a new home, and the listening room was just too small to do justice to the Khorns, so we let them go and brought the Cornwalls back out.

Don't know if enclosing the backs is necessary if placed in proper corners. I guess your ears will be the best judge of that. Every room, and every system is different.

Another thing - if the price is right, you usually can't lose money on Khorns in case you decide they aren't for you.
 
When I spoke to Klipsch (Trey Cannon) after I got my mismatched (1960s/70s) pair of KHorns, since one needed a new woofer and everyone said to upgrade the AA crossovers, Trey said some of the networks were not considered very good by Klipsch engineers, after the fact, and should be avoided. Maybe the AK2 or AK3 or AK4? Not sure which. A lot of people, even at Klipsch, seem to prefer the AA. But each model’s xover was voiced accordingly.

I upgraded my AA to ALK extreme slope, Beyma tweeters, ALK wood mid horns ($$$$$). Wonderful silky sound but much too relaxed, less dynamic, for us. My wife was extremely disappointed. She said the improvements were a trade off that defeated the whole point of having such big speakers. Then I went to Crites AA xover and tweeters. Much simpler, more like stock, which we very much preferred.

I recommend that you do NOT enclose the backs (a practice begun after PWK’s passing). Stick to stock. (That’s just my 2 cents.) If you have good corners, let the walls extend the bass bins—as they were very well designed to do. Seal the KHorns tightly into good corners (foam pipe insulation on the horizontal plywood where they meet the walls, and rubber garage door seal strips attached, on both sides, to the full height of the tailback); try to have 4 feet of uninterrupted wall, the height of the bass bins, extend in all four directions; put them in rooms (on the long wall) with ceilings at least double their overall height (104” + / 8.5’-9’ minimum). I cannot stress enough the importance of tall ceilings with Klipschorns. Mine are in a 10’ tall room. My wife and I once auditioned them, set too close together, in an audio store’s basement with 6.5’-7’ ceilings. Comparatively, they sounded really, really bad there. (There, my wife absolutely hated them.) I really am convinced that KHorns need cubic feet (tall ceilings), not just big rooms, to unleash their dynamic power and to recreate a big believable soundstage.

Klipsch also recommended that you can cut a triangular piece of Masonite for the floor under each speaker (the depth of the speaker—28”—and extending diagonally across the floor to both walls and, going back to the corner, along each wall)—if you have porous wood floors or really deep shag carpeting. This helps to seal the floor to the walls/speaker as one completely (relatively speaking) closed, flared horn, from the floor up.

FWIW: My own corners are not perfect in every one of the four sides of the corners, but sealing them helped; and I’ve never felt, really, that they lacked for bass.

If they work fine as is, I also HIGHLY recommend that you live with them stock for at least 6 months/1 year before you consider upgrading anything.

I also recommend quiet, high quality tube amps. But SS has its own strengths.

Also, KHorns are in a different league than Cornwalls or La Scalas (just as the Jubilee is in another league than the KHorn). If properly set up, all things being equal, the Klipschorns will have deeper resonating bass, more nuanced mid-bass (a huge perk), a bigger, taller, deeper, wider soundstage, and more dynamics—more of the sense that you’re in a live venue, especially on big orchestral and rock pieces—than the Cornwalls. This is partly to do with the fact that the midrange horn is closer to head-height. But the bass bin is just better. And sealing the KHorns to the walls pressurizes the room—as if you’re inside the music. Bigger horns—bigger sound.

Congratulations! Enjoy them. They’re a lot of fun. PWK called the KHorns “a tinkerer’s dream.”
 
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I have a friend who enclosed his and he was VERY pleased with the results. I have to say I am leaning that way if I get them BUT I will first set them up in my existing environment and see what I think

The thing that makes this tough is how much I like the cornwalls.

I should be able to demo them semi soon. Guy who owns them seems great and easy to work with.

IN A PINCH I know I could flip them and get what I paid for them but moving them, as all of you know, is a big *ss challenge
 
They’re heavy and awkward (with no handles), but they look a lot more cumbersome than they actually are. Moving them is not really so bad, since the top hat is removable and can be maneuvered by one person, if: 1) You have a big enough vehicle. 2) Your listening room is on the first floor. 3) Your doorways will accommodate the bass bins. 4) You have a gullible audio-curious friend—essential—to help you get them up flights of stairs (or a dolly and straps, or a little carpeted furniture trolley to wheel the bins across the room).

BTW, the KHorns blow the Cornwalls away. If you like the CWs, you’ll love their big brothers.
 
I have a big friend with a big van. I live in a 1 level house. Recently he and I moved a piano so the khorns we should be able to manage

The GENERAL consensus from friends/acquaintances/web informed individuals is that the khorns are the way to go.

Man....This will of course require a reconfig of the listening area....
 
I believe that the AL's were the crossovers that were frowned upon, the AA's are generally considered much better.
 
I think they nailed it pretty well above. My opinion, as you go bigger in Klipsch, the sound is bigger/better. Where you might raise a curious eyebrow.... the bass on the Cornwalls (which I am NOT terribly familiar with) might initially sound better as the Khorn might sound a bit 'thin'.

Once you get accustomed to it, and go back, the Cornwall might sound a bit bloated when compared to the Khorn. The bass horn (Khorn) should be a lot more articulate than the direct/radiator of the Cornwall.

More articulate, less distortion, cleaner bass. So you will NOT be hearing some of the distortion that you might otherwise hear with the direct radiator (Cornwall) so you might perceive it as thin until you go back.
 
Thanks!

I go back and forth on this. Obviously I need to hear them in person which I have not had a chance yet.

It will cause some disruption? But what change doesn't

I have 3 friends who have had both and all three now own khorns...so there's a trend there

I have been SOO happy with the cornwalls but like most of us am always prowling....
 
As a funny side note, when I decided to sell my Khorns, I listed then on the SF Bay Area CL at a very reasonable price ($2500, I think). I only got one call - he offered me a little less, but was sincere and had GREEN.

He drove an hour to my warehouse, didn't want to listen, paid, and loaded them in the back of his pickup. They were going in his muffler shop. He was tired of crappy sounding speakers.
 
Thanks!

I go back and forth on this. Obviously I need to hear them in person which I have not had a chance yet.

It will cause some disruption? But what change doesn't

I have 3 friends who have had both and all three now own khorns...so there's a trend there

I have been SOO happy with the cornwalls but like most of us am always prowling....


Yeah, but just wait until some moron opens Pandora's box on you and says you've GOT to hear a pair of MWM bass bins, they'll crush what the Khorns do. (forget that you might get served with divorce papers).....

Oh, did you know yet that I'm a moron?
The trend is there.... bigger horn, bigger speaker, bigger more lifelike/effortless sound. It really is amazing, until Mrs. Waffleboy wants to be Mrs Pancakes with strawberries on top.
 
I've had my cornwalls for a LONG TIME and have been really happy with them. My main rig has stayed the same for a long time also. I've had some flings? but I always come back

The khorns are more risky. I get that. But I don't want to just chase the next high, so to speak.

I REALLY hope that when I hear them I go "aha!". One way or another
 
I REALLY hope that when I hear them I go "aha!". One way or another

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......inhale....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......snort....inhale....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ok, so that infers you hope you have your "Aha" moment and perhaps decide that you've found your end speaker.

This is good, this is possible....but you must stop listening to any above moron..... (oh wait, I said that I was a moron)....

This stuff is like a disease.... you hear this....you want more. You get accustomed to the more, and you again.....want more. it never seems to end.

Just make it easy on yourself, stab your eardrums with forks and let me have your Khorns. You will have extra room in the house, your wife will not be setting her (damp) plants on top of your speakers to create water rings and best of all.... you won't be able to hear her if she gets upset with you.

Not sure that I'm seeing any negatives yet?
 
no, I get it coytee.....I hear that same laughter...in my own head...right now

I don't think of myself as an audio addict (what addict does?). I've been largely monogamous with my current setup for a very long time.

But you know how it is...a pair of pretty horns...eyes wander...ears get curious

I don't think I would be this curious if it wasn't khorns. If they are sort of like cornwalls but MORESO, how could I not?

The fact that the guy would buy down a little with my cornwalls (which are lovely and excellent) makes this all possible

Hopefully I can scratch this itch with a demo PDQ.
 
Thanks!

I go back and forth on this. Obviously I need to hear them in person which I have not had a chance yet.

It will cause some disruption? But what change doesn't

I have 3 friends who have had both and all three now own khorns...so there's a trend there

I have been SOO happy with the cornwalls but like most of us am always prowling....
I wish I had three friends like that. Nobody I know even has a stereo other than blutooth.
 
If you have the updated Cornwalls with the more advanced crossover and tweeter and midrange then there will be a smaller difference than with the earlier Cornwalls. The problem with the big Corner horns is the arrival times between the woofers midrange and tweeter are so large it really makes the midrange horn stand out if you sit to close. The Corn wall, Belle, and Heresy blend to gether the three drivers sooner so they work better in most rooms. That is particularly true of the new Cornwall and Hersey, with the advanced horns and drivers. I went to College with a room mate that had Cornwalls similar to yours for three semesters and I really liked them. They were the best Klipsch at the time I thought. I also installed Klipsch up thru 90's occasionally and still preferred the Cornwalls un less the rooms were large and the owner had the three channel set up with a Belle or Cornwall in the middle. But I always thought the best sound came when all the horns were at the same height. So I preferred 3 channel Cornwall systems as no one wanted to raise the Belles or for real large rooms a La Scala off the floor so the mid horn and tweeters were at the same height as the Klipschorns. I also thought the transit response of a Cornwall was better, though the Dynamics of a Cornerhorn are almost impossible to equal. If you are into listening to concerts at live levels with great recordings a Corn wall can't come close to matching the same levels of a cornerhorn with out damaging the Cornwall drivers. Until Klipsch up graded the crossovers around 76 and went with more advanced diaphragms for the mid and tweeters Cornwalls and Hersey suffered at lot of failures with folks that were in to rock, loud folk and disco music. Especially with the introduction of electric synthesizers. Moogs were particularly hard on Klipsch drivers for the smaller Cornwalls and other models, where the Cornerhorns had no issues at all it seemed. I preferred to sit back from where the midrange horns on cornerhorns intersected for a more ambient sound and by doing that the tweeters didn't bother my ears as much with the models from the later 70's. I also preferred tube amps some times to calm the bright Klipsch models at the time. They all had a 6 to 8 db peak around 6300 HZ about a half an octave wide that drove me away quite quickly. Especially the Cornwall II. So there is a lot to consider. But as Don Davis of Altec fame use to say if you can't time align the drivers for the best coherent sound then don't try to guess. Then you want significantly large differences in arrival times which the Cornerhorns he use to own demonstrated. He also like Ohms speakers with the vertical tapered exposed cone that were coherent. But were dynamically very limited
 
WELL, it's on. The gent came down a bit. Not sure when I am going to have them but I am going to have them. Time to start planning the 1) PICKUP and 2) placement.
 
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