Kyocera D-611 Problem

[j_loop]

I recently got one of these with an issue. It seems only 1 capstan will turn. If you are facing the deck the left capstan will turn for maybe 1 revolution without the right one turning (or turning very slightly) and then stop completely, followed quickly by the motor also stopping.
I haven't disassembled much of it, only removing the top, bottom and faceplate and can only see one belt which upon touching is not very taut and when I tried to play a cassette it never moved. This belt is connected to the right, unmoving capstan.

Is anyone familiar with this deck and can offer advice? Does it sound as if this one belt is the culprit? The motor? Other belts that I cannot see? Idle Tire?

Also advice on simply getting to the belts would be wonderful or even a SM would be great as it is rather densely packed in there. There seems to be 2 screws holding the motor in place that upon removing may offer enough room to replace the one, visible, belt. Do I risk messing anything up by doing so? Does this sound like the proper next step to getting to the belts?

I've attached a photo with some arrows (just learned how to do that!) but if you need more photos to help diagnose the problem, I can provide.

I'm sure it's obvious already, but I'm rather new at troubleshooting so please ignore my ignorance and trepidation.

On a side note, I can only find mention of Kyocera decks of 6XX and 8XX models. Did they only offer 2 decks at any one time? When I saw mention of 6XX and 8XX I assumed there would be a 7XX in between, but can't find any mention of one.

Appreciate any help on this!

 

[goldear]

I know that machine. But it only has a single direct drive capstan. So I'm confused by your post... Are you talking about the hubs?

Anyways there ARE no belts inside of that machine other than the counter belt which you show pictured.

The common mechanical failure point is the idler tire. These machines are based on a Sankyo transport just like the Later Naks, and the replacement Nak tires work perfectly inside of these machines.

FYI - Kyocera only ever made 4 machines. They started with the D-801 and 601. These were subsequently replaced by the 811 and the 611. I can't explain thier numbering scheme, except for the fact that their were enough upgrades to the 811 to warrant it being two steps up the line, not just one.

 

[j_loop]

Thanks for the reply!
Yes, I meant to say hub, not capstan...momentary lapse of reason.
In regards to the symptoms I mention would you think a defunct idler tire would cause that? Also what level of expertise would be required to replace the tire?

 

[goldear]

The process is exactly the same as it is for any Sankyo-Nak. I've done it many times, and the two hardest parts are not loosing the washers, and not breaking the flimsy plastic arm that the idler sits on.

If you are mechanically proficient, know how to use needle-nose pliers, and know how to work with rather fragile parts, then you should be OK. If the above does not describe you, then this can be dangerous operation becuase one slip-up and your machine will be a permanent door-stop.

 

[j_loop]

I think I can manage, however the proper process of accessing the tire worries me a bit as I don't want to disassemble things without cause. So I think I'll be investing in a SM pdf I found online, but first I want to make sure it's for a cassette deck and not a printer with the same model #.
If I do successfully swap out the tire would there be any recalibrating or aligning that would need to be done?

 

[goldear]

Just find some of the instructions that are all over the place for Nakamichi tire replacement. You only need to remove two tiny screws to get to the tire. It is not a major job. Somebody who knows how to do it can do it in 10 minutes, if they are good. Somebody who isn't should plan on taking the better part of an hour. It is just tricky to do without breaking the flimsy arm that the idler is mounted to. And if you do break this arm, your deck is a door-stop.

You will need a set of jewler's screw-drivers as well.

 

[TandbergRay]

Yes,
These were part of Cybernet, they made very good walkmans....made in Japan, very sturdy units. I have an original Cybernet Mini Concert PS-101, it has the talkline and sound and build are very nice, sturdy. Kyocera also had portable walkmans. Ray

Just find some of the instructions that are all over the place for Nakamichi tire replacement. You only need to remove two tiny screws to get to the tire. It is not a major job. Somebody who knows how to do it can do it in 10 minutes, if they are good. Somebody who isn't should plan on taking the better part of an hour. It is just tricky to do without breaking the flimsy arm that the idler is mounted to. And if you do break this arm, your deck is a door-stop.

You will need a set of jewler's screw-drivers as well.

 

[berny1970]

Yes,
These were part of Cybernet, they made very good walkmans....made in Japan, very sturdy units. I have an original Cybernet Mini Concert PS-101, it has the talkline and sound and build are very nice, sturdy. Kyocera also had portable walkmans. Ray

So, I have a coffee maker from Russel Hobbs, although I`m not living in the States. It's built quality is good, and it makes excellent coffee. I think they also make high quality toasters.

But does this help for solving the problem? NO!


Check the net for how to dismantle your deck. Inspect the tire when it's still in place. Maybe you can simply clean it with isopropanol without dismantling it. If you can't, take some pictures before you dismantle, and then after each major step. This will help you to put the deck back together (in case you are facing any problems). New tires can be found on the net using "idle tire nakamishi" as the query.

 

[TandbergRay]

Yeah, then you will have No Tire...or a Rotting One....NO To Isopropyl Alcohol....Use a Rubber Rejuvenator if your gonna take an easier way out, and not replace the tire. But not the Alcohol, it will dry the heck out of the rubber. Only Denatured Alcohol could possibly be used on rubber. Ray

So, I have a coffee maker from Russel Hobbs, although I`m not living in the States. It's built quality is good, and it makes excellent coffee. I think they also make high quality toasters.

But does this help for solving the problem? NO!


Check the net for how to dismantle your deck. Inspect the tire when it's still in place. Maybe you can simply clean it with isopropanol without dismantling it. If you can't, take some pictures before you dismantle, and then after each major step. This will help you to put the deck back together (in case you are facing any problems). New tires can be found on the net using "idle tire nakamishi" as the query.

 

[jan_stevns]

Yeah, then you will have No Tire...or a Rotting One....NO To Isopropyl Alcohol....Use a Rubber Rejuvenator if your gonna take an easier way out, and not replace the tire. But not the Alcohol, it will dry the heck out of the rubber. Only Denatured Alcohol could possibly be used on rubber. Ray

Beg to differ ... While idlers and belts seldom is helped by cleaning with isopropylalcohol, it ok to use it on pinch rollers.

never has caused problems in my 30+ years in the business

 

[berny1970]

I also made the experience, that isopropanol doesn't do any harm to rubber.
Used it for 20 years with no problem. But we are getting off topic.

Best solution for sure is a new idler tire.

Also check and/or clean the hall sensors (or IR sensors) that detect that the wheels are spinning. If they don't get proper pulse, they will shut off the transport.

 

[TandbergRay]

Its fine to differ. Its a fact though that Isopropyl is not best for rubber. It does dry the polymers. And rubber is rubber, whether as a belt, a roller, or a tire. A good rubber cleaner/rejuvenator is best. But replacing the tire is the very best, as long as you can do so, without ruining anything else. My only point in relating the Cybernet company, is that the products that they made, were very well made, so worth getting a new part for. The Tire would be best replaced. Ray

Beg to differ ... While idlers and belts seldom is helped by cleaning with isopropylalcohol, it ok to use it on pinch rollers.

never has caused problems in my 30+ years in the business

 

[dr*audio]

Most decks have a plate in the cassette well that you can remove with 2 screws located on the top of the well. Remove the plate and you will see the idler wheel. The idler will be secured either by a plastic snap washer or a horseshoe clip, otherwise known as a Jesus clip. If it goes flying across the room when you remove it, you'll know why it's called that. Put a finger over the clip or washer when you remove it to keep that from happening.
Remove the wheel and pull off the tire, and replace it.
Buy new tires from Fred Marrs at Marrs Cummunications. He gets them from the original factory. If he doesn't know this deck, tell him it uses a Sankyo Mech, same as the Nakamichis.

 

[j_loop]

Thanks for all the replies and help. 2 Questions as I move forward

1. to Goldear; Are you familiar with removing the door? It seems like the same door as the 811, so I hope it's the same process. Looking at it I feel it should slide up out of the frame, but I haven't had any luck with modest force applied.

2. In regards to the rubber rejuvenator: Can this be applied without removing the tire? I thought the rubber was supposed to be soaked in this stuff and if I need to remove the tire to rejuvenate it I may as well replace it with a new one, right?

 

[TandbergRay]

No, doesn't have to be soaked. In fact, MCM Electronics sold a Rubber Rejuvenator product, possibly under their own name, not sure....but really smelled. And I was a Tech for a Large Auto Radio Repair Facility, 2nd largest in the USA....they ordered this product from MCM Elect. and put a couple Pinch Rollers in it to soak for coffee break, came back inside, and they were dissolved...gooey mess. the Rubber Renu from Chemtronics is designed to be applied with a Q-Tip or cloth, either way, and rubbed on wet...for a short time..then use a clean cloth, and rub it dry till no more black comes off on cloth. The rubber should then get a dull texture, and grippiness to it, still solid though. this would clean and recondition the rubber, taking off a very very thin oxidized/glazed/hardened layer from the outside. It works well.

If you are taking the tire off, just replace it with a new one. yes, Fred Marrs has the proper tires. But the Pinch Roller you could clean as I described above. No need to remove it, unless its very easy to take off. ray

Thanks for all the replies and help. 2 Questions as I move forward

1. to Goldear; Are you familiar with removing the door? It seems like the same door as the 811, so I hope it's the same process. Looking at it I feel it should slide up out of the frame, but I haven't had any luck with modest force applied.

2. In regards to the rubber rejuvenator: Can this be applied without removing the tire? I thought the rubber was supposed to be soaked in this stuff and if I need to remove the tire to rejuvenate it I may as well replace it with a new one, right?

 

[dr*audio]

I do not recommend using any rubber restorer on the idler. It will work for a month or so and then you will be back where you started. It's easy enough to replace the tire. It's the stingy man who spends the most. CAIG RBR, on the other hand, is great stuff and you should use it on the pinch roller.

 

[goldear]

Thanks for all the replies and help. 2 Questions as I move forward

1. to Goldear; Are you familiar with removing the door? It seems like the same door as the 811, so I hope it's the same process. Looking at it I feel it should slide up out of the frame, but I haven't had any luck with modest force applied.

2. In regards to the rubber rejuvenator: Can this be applied without removing the tire? I thought the rubber was supposed to be soaked in this stuff and if I need to remove the tire to rejuvenate it I may as well replace it with a new one, right?

Sorry I forgot about that: The door is a PITA to remove on these units.

You need to very carefully pri-up the two clear plastic tabs on these doors using a jeweler's screwdriver to get it loose. Then slide the door up and off.

Once you have done this, I strongly recommend that you use an emmory board to round the corners of the plastic nubs that fastens the door in place. Doing this will allow the door to slide on and off easily.

Also: Do not use revitalizer on the idler. The tire is not hardened so much as it has been worn-down. It will only improve things for a couple of days. You really need a new tyre to make it work.

 

[j_loop]

Update:
Contacted Fred at Marrs Communication and he's sending me a tire, but he's unsure if it will fit. Fingers crossed.
Found this site where they recommend that I "Cut a slit in the plastic washer from the center hole to the outside." in order to make reinstalling easier. I certainly don't want to ruin something so I was wondering if anyone can confirm or deny the validity of this practice? First thing I thought after I removed that washer was, "how am I gonna get that thing back on?" so this seems like a good idea to me, but I certainly don't want to ruin anything here. I'll probably try without cutting first, but I imagine it wont be easy and may require more force than I'd like to apply. Opinoins?

Site:
http://www.eslabs.com/idler.htm

 

[goldear]

If you ordered a washer for any of the SANYO transport Naks (such as the BX series, or CR-7A), it will fit perfectly. I've changed these several times, and I know this for a fact even if he doesn't.

I've never cut the washer myself so I don't know about this. It certainly would make it easier to put on, but it might also lead to it spontaneously comming off on its own. So you take your chances either way IMO.

 

[j_loop]

As far as I know I'm only getting the tire...no washer, so I'd be using the original.

Any tips or tricks to make putting it back on easier??!! I hope!