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Let's stir things up around here

reyneman

reyneman

Requiescat in pace
THOR tries it with his cable talk- now it's my turn!

Sometimes the discussions on this forum would tend to make a lurker think 70s gear was all good stuff. Let me say that, in my opinion, it wasn't. Most of it, just like today, was mid-fi at best. Some of my personal examples, and how they formed MY opinions:

1. Why I don't hold JVC gear in high regard- I got drafted, had to sell my highly modified tube stereo gear. Unfortunately for JVC, their's was the first SS stereo equipment I purchased and I've never recovered from the reduction in musicality.

2. Sansui- this gear replaced the JVC in the mid 70s, was just adequate. Now, this was a military mid-line component, not TOTL. Unfortunately, this was the equipment I used to compare the 'new' Hafler equipment to when I purchased it in 1979. Sansui never recovered in my mind.

3. Pioneer- Cmon, guys. Lo- to mid-line Pioneer gear was simply mass marketed receivers built to a strict price level. Nothing special. If it wasn't special when new, it's not special 25 years later. Wouldn't buy it then, won't pay premium for it now.

Many other brands, all carrying good and cheap components. Let's hear your side. I'm interested in WHY you think I'm full of crap, or why YOU have a line you just don't care for.

Regards, and let it begin...Ray
 
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Oh boy, loading up on ammo, will fire when ready........:uzi: Better take cover Ray...............
 
LOL tooooo fun!

But you know Ray... Personally I don't think you are to far off base. I remember the 70's very well. I also remember a lot of the "jap crap" that was being pushed out on the market. We used to always poke fun at it. "Damn jap junk". Now many years later compared to the product that is being "pushed out" into the mass market this "jap crap" was pretty good stuff. Would I like to have most any of this product from the era? Nope, some of it though is well built and sweet. There wasn't a line that I particularly didn't like back then. If it was from Japan it was junk.

Now looking at this whole situation with a more educated eye many years later, I realize that these suppliers had produced guality units in the top of their line. What proves this to me is this Sansui G-9000 I found recently. As I look at its toroidal transformer and its isolated build sections there is no doubt it is a fine, well built piece of equipment. On the other hand, much of the lesser Sansui gear was, how did you put it. Junk then and it's still junk now IMO.
 
Cmon, who's going to give their REAL take on this vintage equipment?

Billfort, as you and many others know, don't take much stones to irritate others long distance. Besides, if people really get upset, mayhaps they'll come to next year's MAF, just to tell me to my face;) .

Not after a flame war, just really looking for a discussion. People only get upset when they can't justify their views, or are uncertain in their views and want all to share them so they feel 'safe in their beliefs' - or is that ignorance? Darkness? Can't stand a little light in the dark corners of their minds? (OK, I'm reaching to get something going)

I really would like to meet more AKers- just hope they don't hold a grudge:p:

Besides, EVERYONE knows Sansui was non-competitive, even against Pioneer (picking on the little guys here, eh?).

I'm a big boy (well, big around anyway), so change my beliefs!
 
Ah, WW, sorry- good post. I was doing my second post when you responded, so keep that in mind when you read it.
 
Ray- For now, I'll focus in on your comments regarding just Sansui. Tell me Ray, at the time that you bought the Hafler, EXACTLY WHICH Sansui models did you audition that you found to be unimpressive, and /or, which models in particular did you try out or own before then?

You need to clarify if you are referring to only Receivers (as one gets the impression from your Pioneer commments).

You do realize that Sansui produced more upscale models in their Integrated and Power amplifiers, yes? In which case, I think its only fair that if that Hafler you have isnt a Receiver (which I'm willing to bet $$ it isnt as I havent heard of any Hafler RECEIVERS) then you should be comparing the Hafler with a more competitive model that is also the same hi fi component, aka- power amp, such as this one:) :
 
And WW- Since Ray had asked about Vintage 70's models, which 70's Sansui models do you specifically consider to be Junk?

B/F.
 
BeatleFred- in what way would your amp be competitive? To tell you the truth, the Sansui receiver was so unremarkable that, even though I owned it for three or so years, I can't for the life of me remember the model.

I DO know that the Hafler amp was $178, the Pre was $129, so together they cost about the same as the receiver. This was list price on the gear.

Which Sansui equipment was competitive at that price? None that I found:lmao:
 
Interesting post. Man am I going to keep my mouth shut!
Wild West, the fire not too close? Hope all's well.
Carl
 
Which model Hafler power amp was it that you bought (new?) in 1979 that was only $178, and was it an entry level model or TOTL? I didnt realize power amps could be bought for such little $$ back then especially as most Receivers themselves cost alot more at the time (other than the least expensive lowest powered models).

If you are talking 1979 and receivers- Sansui models that come to mind are the G Series models- which ones did you try that were not good in your opinion and specifically what was wrong with them?. And does that mean that WW's G-9000 is unimpressive too?
 
Actually, BOTL and TOTL. Only Hafler gear at that time was DH200 amp and DH101 pre, both kits only.

Please reread my original post for time frame and level.

Please also read that Hafler formed MY opinion of Sansui. What formed yours?

My Hafler equipment made Stereophile's Top 100 equipment list of the last 25 years. Did any comparable Sansui equipment? (actually, I don't go in for lists much, but this is such a GREAT place to drop names)

Hmm, my second post may apply here...:p:
 
Tell ya what Carl. We could literally see the flames on the mountain from our front door. 21 thousand plus acres and growing. We are in an area on the west end of the mountain range very near to this. It breaks our heart about Summer Haven burning down as this is something we grew up with here in Tucson. Always being able to run to the mountains and cool off. It will never be the same now in my life our our kids lives.

Oh and BF.... To quote exact model numbers and such well I can't say just that. But no doubt you can imagine it was the typical off the shelf, in store items. But I guess you would have had to be around back then to understand. I had buddies buying gear that were in the service. Seems it's all they had to spend their money on being single and all. Sansui was not one of the favored lines by any means.
 
Sansui did not produce any of their hi fi products in less expensive kit form so what basis of comparison is there in that regard? - compare your Hafler to a Dynaco instead then.

I have a vast collection of hi fi magazines which include stacks of old (and current ) Stereophile magazines. While I find it interesting to still read Stereophile, I am already quite aware that there havent been many Sansui products reviewed in their "estmeed" publication - so, is that some kind of Proof that Sansui products are inferior products? Sansui products HAVE been reviewed in other publications such as Audio , High Fidelity, and Stereo Review over the years, and in my recollection, I havent read anything to the contrary that Sansui is an inferior product to anything made by Hafler or is an inferior product to anything-period.

You still have not presented any compelling evidence to support the claim of your underlying message which seems to be that there arernt any Sansui hi fi products that are "as good" as your Hafler.

Since it was You who originated the post on this topic, the onus is on You to provide some more substantial comments on how you feel the Sansui is 'not good' and all the ways that the Hafler is supposedly superior.

Regards, B/F.
 
blah...blah...blah... :rolleyes:

Personally... I could care less about posts like this. If it sounds good to me, that's all I care about. I feel no need to justify or debate it, although I must say I do find it amusing.

All & All... "One Man's Trash is Another Man's Treasure"... And I'm sure there's many that would find your Hafler gear just as unremarkable as some of the gear that you have mentioned here.

Whatever makes you happy I say...
Moon
 
WW- If you are talking about a time period of about 1970, since I was only 6 years old then, then Yes, my recollections are a bit vague & hazy and I was certainly a bit young to start buying hi fi equipment, however, I do remember that time, as my oldest brother who was 23 back then served in the Army (luckily he wasnt sent over to Nam). In terms of discussing hi fi, Sansui did make a model 5000 receiver back then that did have a defect on the driver board which resulted in a product recall/modification. I am inclined to think that if many servicemen bought this problematic model back then or heard about it from others who did, that it would form the opinion they have about Sansui.

I think its apparent that huge leaps forward were achieved by Sansui and most-all others hi fi manufacturers in each year that went by in the 1970's, so it seems somewhat unrealistic to form a set-opinion on Sansui based on one smalll portion of the early part of the decade. If the more-advanced G-9000 existed in 1970, do you think the servicemen would have the same negative opinion?, I doubt it.

B/F.
 
mOON: If Senor Reyneman had stated that the Sansui 9090DB wasnt much of a receiver, me-thinks you might then be inclined to set him straight :)
 
BF- I don't understand your defensiveness.

Please read what I wrote- that not all 70s gear was great. Sansui came into my post because the receiver I had at the time I acquired the Hafler was a Sansui. Didn't say Sansui never made any decent products. Why would I compare Hafler to Dynaco (same engineer, by the way) or anything else? Then, as now, I only feel that Hafler was good sounding equipment for its price- not the best equipment. You're the one who seems to have a problem justifying your stance- that all Sansui gear was the best available?

That last statement seems to be what you're implying I said about Hafler? Never stated, nor believed.

Now justify YOUR statement that all Sansui gear is the best there ever was. Bold statement, onus on you, etc- unless I'm now misquoting you?

Just jabbing at you, BF, but comes really close to your statements, eh? (had to add that last, just because I AM having fun, and I really hope you are too- if not, if I actually have crossed a line with you, let me apologize in advance and I WILL quit this thread)
 
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