Listener fatigue: Myth or reality and what is it exactly?

[Haiderkb]

Hi,

I have just been trying to do some research on Listener fatigue or other similar ailments. I found a Wikipidia page and lots of anecdotal stuff. does anyone know of any scientific research or even if you have your own direct experience and views I would love to hear them.

I am not just talking about Auditory fatigue which is caused by listening to music loudly but the fatigue you can get from listening to music at normal levels when listening to some equipment. Why, what, where when.etc.

Haider
p.s. you may see this on one or two other fora too.

 

[BeerCan]

I find with certain gear I kind of get annoyed after awhile. I attribute this to something that occurs in the higher frequencies. I listen to music about 4-6 hours a day. 95% of that is not critical listening and I find that important. Usually the gear I end up finding annoying is gear I like when I critically listen. 2 pieces I can use as an example was a nice ESS based dac that I ended up selling and a set of older B&W speakers

 

[savatage1973]

A few of my observations (and I'm no recording engineer or equipment designer) is that "fatigue" is related to both the recording and the equipment it is played on.

A bad/poorly engineered recording just wears on you (try to listen to more than one Led Zeppelin album at a time--sober).

The gear, especially speakers is a huge issue as well--if they don't sound "just right", not accurate or properly placed, they can just get annoying after a while.

And personally, variety is the spice of life, if I don't rotate through a variety of artists or musical styles/genres during a listening session, it just fades into background music--no longer "involving".

 

[Haiderkb]

I find with certain gear I kind of get annoyed after awhile. I attribute this to something that occurs in the higher frequencies. I listen to music about 4-6 hours a day. 95% of that is not critical listening and I find that important. Usually the gear I end up finding annoying is gear I like when I critically listen. 2 pieces I can use as an example was a nice ESS based dac that I ended up selling and a set of older B&W speakers

I quite agree we enjoy music mostly in a non critical listening mode but it still has to be good quality. I wonder if the flaws are in your critical listening? Sorry not trying to criticise you but just wondering if there can be signs to avoid the error when being critical in picking up something that will annoy. I am sure I have suffered the same at times. Is there something fooling us then? Are we perceiving something that is in error as something good?

Haider

 

[prisoners]

I get fatigue listening to most Horn speakers - period. In fact, I usually end up with a headache. It doesn't matter the space or equipment. There are a few I have no issues with but in those cases, it was also helped by the downstream equipment.

I'm with you. Never heard a horn speaker I like regardless of what's in front of it. I can listen to actual horns though.

 

[Haiderkb]

A few of my observations (and I'm no recording engineer or equipment designer) is that "fatigue" is related to both the recording and the equipment it is played on.

A bad/poorly engineered recording just wears on you (try to listen to more than one Led Zeppelin album at a time--sober).

The gear, especially speakers is a huge issue as well--if they don't sound "just right", not accurate or properly placed, they can just get annoying after a while.

And personally, variety is the spice of life, if I don't rotate through a variety of artists or musical styles/genres during a listening session, it just fades into background music--no longer "involving".

Thank you. I 100% agree with your sentiments. I too have had a similar experience with the Led Zeplin Albums. Particularly the first round of remastering. I brought myself to believe that Mr Page had lost his Ears and that it was too late to revive this stuff under his guidance. However we then proceeded some time later to develop a new amplifier which had to be class leading and critically out perform all that we had developed before. At the same time we referenced backwards and tried to slightly improve our lower range. Suddenly even the LED Zeplin albums were bearable over longer listening periods (and surprisingly involving)without any detriment to others.

I have no idea why to be honest, but in our experience a truth.

I tell you the worst thing is to use your favourite recordings while developing a product. Variety is indeed desperately needed.

Haider

 

[pete1729]

I listen a lot at home while I'm up to other things. Here in New Orleans we have WWOZ which is pretty much good music 24/7. There are times when I want to lean in and listen closer. There are other times when I'm sad to be shutting off my rig at night.

This started when I got into tube amplification.

I remember times before this when I would shut my stereo off and feel relief.

 

[BeerCan]

I quite agree we enjoy music mostly in a non critical listening mode but it still has to be good quality. I wonder if the flaws are in your critical listening? Sorry not trying to criticise you but just wondering if there can be signs to avoid the error when being critical in picking up something that will annoy. I am sure I have suffered the same at times. Is there something fooling us then? Are we perceiving something that is in error as something good?

Haider

That very well could be. Most of the time when I critically listen is when I am listening to new gear or recordings. I could be letting my excitement/anticipation cloud my judgement. The mind is a powerful deceiver

 

[audiodon]

Listener fatigue is entirely subjective, but here goes:

For me, listener fatigue has set in when I just don't want to listen anymore and turn the system off. I usually don't quite know why but I'll know I've had enough. It can be volume related, but that is not the only determining factor.

I've moved to all tube systems except for the home theater system, which I rarely listen to just music on. I don't believe it to be a tubes vs. solid state thing. I've heard non-fatiguing solid state systems.

The price point seems to be higher in the SS systems though, where tubes seem to do it right naturally. In rare cases tubes exceed some subliminal threshold of negative feedback. The Citation II amplifier is the only tube piece that I've experienced fatigue with. That's a high negative feedback designed amplifier.

I have a home office system, tube based, that can be on for 10+ hours at a stretch and I will not experience fatigue.

 

[jomondz]

Data for your research:
Listening to full SS electronic equipment wears off my energy (read: listening fatigue).
Listening to full single ended valve (it's called tube in the US) electronic equipment neither wears off nor recharge my energy.
Listening to actual acoustic item or an acoustic record player recharge my energy (read: the opposite of listening fatigue).

Maybe, the solution is to make an acoustic-sounding electronic equipment.
I'm interested if you invented that already.

 

[Bogframe]

I have one of those "guilty pleasure" albums that's been a favorite of mine since I was a kid.

When I put the vinyl on, I can listen to it all the way through, sometimes even twice; and that's either over the speakers or through headphones. I recently found an .mp3 of it. For some reason, I have never made it all the way through. I just get tired of it. For some reason, the digital copy, clean as it is, just brings on audio fatigue that I just don't get from the vinyl.

 

[bare]

Often it's gear related. The slightly too bright that becomes irritating after a half hour even.. as opposed to the completely wrong; too harsh to endure for even moments sounds.
Strange that though, as if Male, older than 50, it's Seriously unlikely anything beyond 14khz is audible. So it's clearly lower frequency harshness of some sort.
IMO directly attributable to either reproduction gear or recordings.. sometimes both.
That said I've been to Many Live performances that were harsh and shrill/painfull.
Both orchestral and electronic.
Real life, in a word is not Mellow.
Solutions: confine oneself to Easy listening music Diana Krall and ilk.. or hunt up gear that softens the edges..

 

[guiller]

Isn't distortion (electrical or mechanical) in its several forms a good candidate as a source of fatigue?

 

[jomondz]

Often it's gear related. The slightly too bright that becomes irritating after a half hour even.. as opposed to the completely wrong; too harsh to endure for even moments sounds.
Strange that though, as if Male, older than 50, it's Seriously unlikely anything beyond 14khz is audible. So it's clearly lower frequency harshness of some sort.
IMO directly attributable to either reproduction gear or recordings.. sometimes both.
That said I've been to Many Live performances that were harsh and shrill/painfull.
Both orchestral and electronic.
Real life, in a word is not Mellow.
Solutions: confine oneself to Easy listening music Diana Krall and ilk.. or hunt up gear that softens the edges..

Try live brass section (jazz). It's brighter than a rolled-off speakers, it will split your brain (feels like it), but it doesn't sound like speaker at all (which speaker is monotone and boring), and surprisingly not irritating like speakers.

 

[BeerCan]

Often it's gear related. The slightly too bright that becomes irritating after a half hour even.. as opposed to the completely wrong; too harsh to endure for even moments sounds.
Strange that though, as if Male, older than 50, it's Seriously unlikely anything beyond 14khz is audible. So it's clearly lower frequency harshness of some sort.
IMO directly attributable to either reproduction gear or recordings.. sometimes both.
That said I've been to Many Live performances that were harsh and shrill/painfull.
Both orchestral and electronic.
Real life, in a word is not Mellow.
Solutions: confine oneself to Easy listening music Diana Krall and ilk.. or hunt up gear that softens the edges..

I agree that us older folk usually cannot "hear" above 14khz but perhaps on some level our ears are still processing the sound somehow and that causes the issue. I am just speculating on this, I have no evidence to support it.

 

[easycraig]

i get this in my office....(listening fatigue) my ears actually hurt after a half hour or so.... and I am not even playing the music loud. I think my room set up ( very steril, no curtains, rugs etc.... my office is just filled with hard floors, walls, walls with art but no real buffer to dampen the sound.) I am guessing my luxman suckface equiment might be a bit on the bright side..... i run everything through an equalizer to help.... and it does.... i should probably try some different speakers and or placement of the speakers... just that alone can really help, but I am short on space in there, and if i move one thing... i have to move 10 or 20 other things if I want the art on the walls to be visable. ec

 

[robgmn]

Your quest seems to be for scientific evidence or studies, not the anecdotal info. you are getting here.

You may want to investigate in reverse by trying to figure out who would benefit from a scientific study such as that.
I personally can't think of why someone would go to the trouble or expense to determine what causes it, but who knows? SOMEONE did a study to determine a frequency that annoys teens: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/23/high-pitch-only-teens-can_n_98304.html

Maybe an audio mfgr. did a study so they could engineer and sell equipt. that is unlikely to cause listener fatigue.
But...why would they divulge info. that could help their competition?

I'm thinking your path to knowledge may be an uphill one.

 

[BOUXY]

Don't really know what this is except maybe not the right set-up(sound) and I know that as soon as I hear it.Ever since I can remember being an Audio Junky If I bought some piece no matter what it was or how expensive or inexpensive it was I liked it or didn't no matter how loud or low ,it didn't take long at all to realize that fact.Yrs of trial and error got me to where I am today of being satisfied with almost everything I hear through my current System albeit the odd song/music I don't really like and in that case I get rid of itKISS:thmbsp:

 

[Bob in WI]

I've had equipment that was so bright to me that after the first "WOW THIS IS SO DETAILED !!" wore off, it was irritating to have on. My current listening room is pleasant at low to mid volumes, at louder volumes reflections start intruding on the music & it is a chore to listen to. It becomes work. I have some recordings that sound better over mediocre equipment (standard issue car stereo for instance) than my home set up (Fiona Apple 'Extraordinary Machine' comes to mind). I've never made it thru that disc even one time at home. Of all those, I identify the shrill, overly bright sound most closely with listener fatigue.

 

[manookjs]

My listening fatigue is just that. Fatigue. After a time, I usually just get tired of the music and sound and just want to hear silence. That can happen with any of my systems including my car. Sometimes silence is a very peaceful place to be.