Looking for advice on transitioning to my new setup using Heathkit W-5Ms.

[xXTomcatXx]

Where I'm at Today
After several years of enjoying a Magnavox console (185 amp with original Collaro record changer) that several of you helped me get working I'm ready to upgrade. It all works great, but I was ready to begin upgrading for better sound. So as a first step I purchased a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon EVO. The results have been fantastic so far. My current setup is TT>Bellari SE560 (as volume control)>directly into Maggie 185 inputs.

Where I'm Trying to Get to
Now I'm ready to begin transitioning to my end-state. In my search for a standalone tube amp solution I found nice a pair of local Heathkit W-5Ms (picture album) for sale that seem to be in fantastic condition. Refurbished, with the original 6458 OPTs, and mildly modded (upgrade). Everything that I've read on this model here on AK tells me these are great amps (with those OPTs). My plan is to pair those up with the JBL L52 bookshelf speakers.

My Question
Assuming I stick with a tube power amp solution (monoblock or stereo) what's my best approach for introducing a small form-factor volume and EQ controls to my setup? Most of the smaller (sub $500) phono preamps I've found don't have volume control whatsoever (Take for example the Pro-Ject Phono Box Ultra 500 or the Mobile Fidelity Studio Phono. And the few I've found that do have volume controls seem to be geared towards occasional tweaking of pre-amp output (see the Bellari VP130) vice regular volume control like you might find on an integrated amp. I did find these two (Music Hall PA2.2 and Cambridge Duo), but I'm not sure if it's the right solution for my needs (still doesn't include EQ). Is there a small phono preamp that has integrated volume and EQ that I'm not seeing? Or should I be looking at another component to add between the preamp and power amp to handle volume and EQ? Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

 

[zackthedog]

The W5s look pretty good, an amateur job but it looks solid enough. He up-rated the coupling caps, and they have the larger Peerless OPTs. Don't know he's asking but I think they'd sound great on those JBL's.

It's almost impossible to find a modern preamp with tone controls. I would look for an equally well-restored Dynaco PAS 2 or 3. They're relatively small and they're a sweet, classic phono/preamp that would mate well with the W5s. There are other vintage preamps out there but they tend to be a lot larger.

 

[xXTomcatXx]

Don't know he's asking but I think they'd sound great on those JBL's.

Asking $1,300 but seems willing to negotiate. Seems a bit high to me, but valuing vintage gear is challenging. Thoughts?

It's almost impossible to find a modern preamp with tone controls. I would look for an equally well-restored Dynaco PAS 2 or 3. They're relatively small and they're a sweet, classic phono/preamp that would mate well with the W5s. There are other vintage preamps out there but they tend to be a lot larger.

Thanks. I'll keep an eye out for a PAS. Might have to make due with the Bellari until I can find a PAS.

 

[gadget73]

a very traditional pairing with a W5 would be a pair of WAP2 preamps. Don't actually know if its any better than the Dynaco but they tend to be pretty darn cheap since they are not useful without either a power supply or an amp to run them from. I'm not a huge fan of dual mono controls but some people like that.

 

[zackthedog]

Asking $1,300 but seems willing to negotiate. Seems a bit high to me, but valuing vintage gear is challenging. Thoughts?



Thanks. I'll keep an eye out for a PAS. Might have to make due with the Bellari until I can find a PAS.

Well, we're not supposed to discuss price here, but that's not unreasonable to me. Properly refurbished, sturdier Peerless OPT. You be hard pressed to find as good an amp for that price. If you can get him down a bit I'd say that's a good deal.

 

[maxhifi]

You need a preamplifier... a typical setup has phono preamplifier --> preamplifier ----> power amp(s)
Sometimes the phono preamp is built into the preamp, and sometimes it is external.

Do a google search for hi-fi preamplifier and you will find a bewildering array of options. Don't go too cheap though, because this component affects the result of the overall system a lot.

 

[AlexHempel]

A Schiit SYS+Loki/Lokius would be a relatively cheap way to accomplish what you're thinking of, although unfortunately it would require two separate boxes. You could also just buy a traditional preamp with volume and tone controls to plug your phono pre into, but then you'll be paying for other extraneous preamp functionality.

 

[zackthedog]

A Schiit SYS+Loki/Lokius would be a relatively cheap way to accomplish what you're thinking of, although unfortunately it would require two separate boxes. You could also just buy a traditional preamp with volume and tone controls to plug your phono pre into, but then you'll be paying for other extraneous preamp functionality.

In my experience, the W5's, like other Williamsons, like a pretty healthy drive signal. On a less efficient system, I'd be wary of trying to get adequate signal from a stand-alone phono pre.

 

[AlexHempel]

The Lokius is active and claims to do 10V RMS out. But weirdly they don't include gain or input sensitivity in the specs, so I can't tell if it has gain in normal operation or if that's just headroom for EQing with a line-level source. I'm sure it's a question they'd be happy to answer if asked.

 

[zackthedog]

The Lokius is active and claims to do 10V RMS out. But weirdly they don't include gain or input sensitivity in the specs, so I can't tell if it has gain in normal operation or if that's just headroom for EQing with a line-level source. I'm sure it's a question they'd be happy to answer if asked.

Ah! I stand corrected on that one!

 

[tcdriver]

a very traditional pairing with a W5 would be a pair of WAP2 preamps. Don't actually know if its any better than the Dynaco but they tend to be pretty darn cheap since they are not useful without either a power supply or an amp to run them from. I'm not a huge fan of dual mono controls but some people like that.

+1

 

[trainbuftony]

There has been a pair of the heathkit preamps for sale in barter town for a very reasonable price. Plug and play, and extremely clean.
You start looking at other antique tube preamps the prices start at 10-20x what you've got to pay for the ones designed to work with that amp.
For (arround) 2 Benjamin to your door the factory preamp seems to be a bargain.

 

[maxhifi]

There has been a pair of the heathkit preamps for sale in barter town for a very reasonable price. Plug and play, and extremely clean.
You start looking at other antique tube preamps the prices start at 10-20x what you've got to pay for the ones designed to work with that amp.
For (arround) 2 Benjamin to your door the factory preamp seems to be a bargain.

My only worry here, would be that the power transformer in the W5M is known to fail, and the factory preamp draws power from it... just in the interest of keeping the loading as low as possible, I'd consider using something which has its own self contained power supply.

 

[ScottFan355]

I think you’d be very happy with the Heathkits, I love mine.

 

[Kevdog]

I think you’d be very happy with the Heathkits, I love mine.

Could you tell me what endears you to these amps? I just bit on some sorted amps and I have read a lot, but mostly people talk about logistical things like re-capping, values, transformers blowing, etc etc. I’d love to just hear more about someone’s real world experience with their ears and forget about the logistics.

 

[ScottFan355]

Could you tell me what endears you to these amps? I just bit on some sorted amps and I have read a lot, but mostly people talk about logistical things like re-capping, values, transformers blowing, etc etc. I’d love to just hear more about someone’s real world experience with their ears and forget about the logistics.

They are very neutral amps in a good way. Beautiful highs, great lows for a tube amp, and wonderful midrange magic. Not ‘tubey’ really just very natural.

 

[Kevdog]

They are very neutral amps in a good way. Beautiful highs, great lows for a tube amp, and wonderful midrange magic. Not ‘tubey’ really just very natural.

Thanks for the description Scott. That music to my ears to hear. I especially like neutral presentation and good sparkly highs. It will probably end up driving my mid/highs with my Mac 30’s driving the lows. Many thanks.

 

[ScottFan355]

Thanks for the description Scott. That music to my ears to hear. I especially like neutral presentation and good sparkly highs. It will probably end up driving my mid/highs with my Mac 30’s driving the lows. Many thanks.

GordonW, a very respected member here and tube amp builder/restorer feels the w5ms outperform the mc30s. I’ve only heard the mc30s once, and not with my speakers so I have no opinion but respect his.

 

[Kevdog]

GordonW, a very respected member here and tube amp builder/restorer feels the w5ms outperform the mc30s. I’ve only heard the mc30s once, and not with my speakers so I have no opinion but respect his.

I think that’s a tall task to beat the sound and character of the MC30’s. They sound fantastic in my system! If these W5M’s come close to that I’ll be ecstatic. I do have a feeling they will pair well together from what I’m hearing. Hey…they both have 6L6 output and nearly the same wattage. That’s probably where the similarities stop.

 

[ScottFan355]

I think that’s a tall task to beat the sound and character of the MC30’s. They sound fantastic in my system! If these W5M’s come close to that I’ll be ecstatic. I do have a feeling they will pair well together from what I’m hearing. Hey…they both have 6L6 output and nearly the same wattage. That’s probably where the similarities stop.

According to him the mc30s color the sound more while the w5ms are more neutral.