Lossless Streaming Comparisons.....

[Route 66]

I started out with Tidal and added Qobuz just recently after they lowered their prices. As for MQA, I let Roon do the first unfolding and my streamer does the second. If I had to chose between the two, I take Qobuz because it offers true Hi-Res and it just sounds better, but I'd hate to give up Tidal because there's a lot of music that they have available that isn't in the Qobuz catalog...yet.

EDITED 5/8/20

I gave up Tidal and I'm using Qobuz exclusively now. There was just too much of an overlap with their catalogs and there wasn't enough of a reason to be paying for both services. I mainly listen to jazz, blues and classical and would guess that you can find about 98% of the same content of both services.

 

[Tommy2D]

I did some A/B Tidal Master vs Spotify Extreme, through a desktop PC, connected to Edifier R2000DBs, in a near-field setting, with minimal distinction (maybe Windows 10 has some limiting function).

When I get back from holiday travel, I'm going to try with my HTPC-to-Edifier S350DB, over optical.

I'm also going to keep trying with different headphones.

I realize that these are not high-end speakers but they are a few steps beyond laptop speakers or a 10W Bluetooth speaker.

We'll see. As I don't anticipate spending more money on equipment, in the near future, I don't mind hanging out on this plateau.

 

[GChief]

through a desktop PC, connected to Edifier R2000DB

I had those as the first speakers for my TV set-up (instead of a sound bar). I was doing optical out of the TV to the speakers. My AD18 and R-51Ms sound much better, much more clarity and detail.

 

[Tommy2D]

I keep saying that Spotify on Extreme setting is very poor sound quality. Its grainy , not clear/pure sounding at all. Even Apple Music wich is 256kbps sounds better.

Thanks for responding. Just for context: what else do you consider "very poor sound quality"? I don't intend this to be combative; I'm genuinely curious about perceptions.

I think of AM radio (for music), Bluetooth connected using the wrong profile (HFP vs. A2DP), a worn out/badly copied cassette or a low bitrate MP3 as very poor quality.

Most other sources seem to reach a level of good to excellent to me. I'm genuinely curious when people say that certain sources sound awful/terrible/very poor.

When you say that it's grainy. Do you hear noise/static and/or do you notice a lack of tone at the high / low ends of the spectrum?

Again: It may be that I've reached my plateau and that's fine. I just seem to find much more of a difference between Speakers and Room dynamics than source quality.

Great discussion!

 

[Tommy2D]

I had those as the first speakers for my TV set-up (instead of a sound bar). I was doing optical out of the TV to the speakers. My AD18 and R-51Ms sound much better, much more clarity and detail.

It's funny: I actually found them to be a little too bright for my living room. It's a wide open living room/kitchen with high ceilings and no carpet, aside from an area rug(apartment).

I moved them to my bedroom as PC/desktop speakers. I think that they perform a lot better in this setting/role. They're a little big, but they also do fine without a sub. I do miss my sci-fi looking Logitech Z553s for the desktop....

 

[GChief]

Again: It may be that I've reached my plateau and that's fine.

This may be the case from my experience with Edifier speakers and a laptop. Not saying it sounds bad, just that there is much better.



Edit: they did sound better when I used an external DAC and amp with them.

 

[Tommy2D]

This may be the case from my experience with Edifier speakers and a laptop. Not saying it sounds bad, just that there is much better.

It's possible. It could be similar to playing 1080p and 4k material on a 32" 4k TV:....from a few feet away, many people won't notice much difference. Conversely 4k would stand out on a 70" unit.

Along these lines, I've noticed that some Netflix SD streams look considerably worse than even DVD quality (480p). I remember watching "Solo: A StarWars Story" and it looked like YouTube dialed down to 240p. I almost wonder if they do it on purpose to make their HD tier stand out. I only mention this to make the point that I acknowledge that compression / down-sampling can noticeably affect media quality.

Maybe, I'll find differences with headphones. Ultimately, I'll just keep enjoying the music.

 

[Loiter Sack]

I don’t know the exact words to discribe the grainy sound quality of Spotify.

Its just that all other streaming services i tried have a much fuller and warmer sound. A particular track that sounds really poor on Spotify is M.I.A Platforms. The difference between Spotify and Deezer with this track is literally jaw dropping. Spotify uses another codec. Instead of mp3 320kbps it uses ogg vorbis or something which they claim has the same bitrate as mp3 320kbps. I don’t know why but it just sounds worse.

Deezer is a really great service. It’s the same price as Spotify.


What else is low sound quality...... Youtube vids with low bitrates are the worst

 

[Johnny B]

I’ve had a Spotify premium account for years. Over the time I’ve had it, I’ve mostly used it to stream at work on crappy computer speakers. I’ve also used it a bit to stream to a bluetooth speaker. Or even less occasionally, on an iPad with the internal speakers. On that gear, I can’t really tell the difference between that and CD rips for the majority of sources. Streamed from my FiiO X5 or iPad to my living room system (using a cable), it sounds noticeably worse in comparison to CD rips streamed from the X5 and a touch worse on many sources compared to 320k mp3s streamed from the X5.

I recently subscribed to Qobuz, which sounds comparable to listening to CD rips on my living room system. I haven’t noticed a difference between hi-res and 44.1/16 files on Qobuz, but when I’m streaming in there, I’m usually doing something else. Not much sitting and listening going on in there. The streaming is a bit flaky, but it’s tough to nail down whether it’s the Qobuz app or the wifi on the X5.

On my reasonably decent computer speakers at home, I haven’t noticed a difference between hi-res and 44.1/16 files (from any source) but I haven’t really sat and listened. My machine is running Kubuntu Linux. The Qobuz Windows app doesn’t install and the web streaming is flaky. I just installed a program that runs the app in a Chrome window. That seems to work better, but I haven’t used it extensively. In theory, the sound chip on the motherboard should be able to play high sample rate tracks. But as I haven’t sat and tried to hear a difference between hi-res and CD files, who knows. When I plug in the FiiO X5 to use as a DAC, it downsamples to 48/24 or 44.1/24, but it sounds better than the sound off the motherboard. I haven’t used Spotify much on that machine even though there is a Linux app, so I can’t currently comment on how it sounds.

tl;dr- On crappy speakers, I can sometimes tell the difference between Spotify and CD rips. On my living room system, I can sometimes tell the difference between Spotify and 320k mp3s and the mp3s are better, and I can often tell the difference between Spotify and CD rips. I can’t tell the difference between a CD rip and Qobuz on that system until the playback gets flaky, which has been a problem with my X5. I haven’t really tried the iPad yet, though I probably will.

 

[Kayel]

For what it is worth, I can definitely hear the difference with anything below CD quality but not necessarily between CD quality and hi-res on AmazonHD. My equipment is solid and detailed. It seems that the original recording has much to do with this as anything well as the genre. Just one fellow's experience.

 

[Loudpipe]

Just did an A-B on Apple Music vs. TIDAL, and it's subtle, but there's no doubt there's a difference. If you want to try this, give it a shot with an album with a good amount of dispersion across the audio frequency range, and preferably something weighted toward high-frequencies. I used some Fleet Foxes tracks. Listening through a pair of Grado SR80s, the high-end clipping was noticeable. It sounds something like static that appears during high-frequency bursts of sound. On TIDAL, no such noise. It sounds a lot more spacious, for lack of a better term. I also have to EQ the **** out of the Apple Music tracks to get them close, but maybe this is more of a commentary on something with Apple's programming than it is the track itself.

I cannot tell any difference between TIDAL and Qobuz, but I understand why some people take issue with MQA. If, like me, you had to look up why people are upset with it, the Wikipedia article is a great place to start.

 

[SWL3600]

So lately I've been rolling with both Tidal and Spotify. Recently I picked up a Topping D10 to use as a USB-SPDIF converter and it has a decoder/display that shows the sample rate of whatever I'm playing.

My Amazon HD account still has some time left on the free trial so I reinstalled the desktop app on my Windows 10 laptop because I wanted to see what sample rates were showing up on the decoder. No CD quality. No Hi Rez. All high bit rate mp3's.

This wasn't a shock to me because as I mentioned earlier in this thread or maybe one of the other Amazon HD music threads that when I was comparing Amazon HD to Spotify (sitting in the sweet spot) 80% of Amazon HD tracks sounded no better than Spotify. I mean in my system when you're locked in the sweet spot it's pretty easy to tell.

I was doing the same thing with Tidal (comparing to Spotify) and at first Tidal sounded better. Then after a while they didn't sound much different and I'm wondering what the heck is going on here? Went inyo the settings and somehow it got changed and wasn't in Exclusive Mode. I corrected it and have been listening to Tidal almost exclusively ever since.

Amazon's got some splainin to do....

 

[Tommy2D]

So lately I've been rolling with both Tidal and Spotify. Recently I picked up a Topping D10 to use as a USB-SPDIF converter and it has a decoder/display that shows the sample rate of whatever I'm playing.

My Amazon HD account still has some time left on the free trial so I reinstalled the desktop app on my Windows 10 laptop because I wanted to see what sample rates were showing up on the decoder. No CD quality. No Hi Rez. All high bit rate mp3's.
.

Out of curiosity: what are the bit rates for Tidal, Amazon and Spotify? I presume that you're using Spotify Extreme and Tidal HiFi/Master?

 

[darin g]

I have amazon music and tried the 30day hd trial yesterday. I use a hp notebook with usb to a emotiva pt100 pre amp. I did hear a slight improvement and some were better than others. Less grain and glare. Probably worth the extra 5.00 a month. I still believe the recording sets the stage as it always does. I am very happy with the catalogue and man is it convenient. I have a very good mid fi setup. Emotiva front end with jbl 590s. I listen at mid to higher volume while working on the house. Once in a while i sit down and listen but usually doing something.
I probably need to go into my settings and make sure its right. All bs aside i cant see needing any better because it sounds like a cd imo. DG

 

[Mystic]

For what it is worth, I can definitely hear the difference with anything below CD quality but not necessarily between CD quality and hi-res on AmazonHD. My equipment is solid and detailed. It seems that the original recording has much to do with this as anything well as the genre. Just one fellow's experience.

Y'took the words right outta my mouth.. er, keyboard, Kayel.

 

[Bradbrews]

I’ve been using AMHD for a few months and just trying Qobuz now. Qobuz makes it easier to get hires files on devices other than a pc. I really want to like it better but I’m really missing the features AM has. Specifically the feature of “since you listened too” and then AM shows you a bunch of artists in the genre you may like. The other feature I’ve come to rely on is “ other customers listened too” which you can tap for any artist you are currently listening to. It brings up albums that are on other people’s playlists that have the album you are hearing. These two features have been the source of many, no most, of my new favorite artists. Qobuz doesn’t seem to have a similar thing unless I’m too much of a rookie with it.
What are your tips to find new artists you’ve never heard of with Qobuz?

 

[Alobar]

I’ve been using AMHD for a few months and just trying Qobuz now. Qobuz makes it easier to get hires files on devices other than a pc. I really want to like it better but I’m really missing the features AM has. Specifically the feature of “since you listened too” and then AM shows you a bunch of artists in the genre you may like. The other feature I’ve come to rely on is “ other customers listened too” which you can tap for any artist you are currently listening to. It brings up albums that are on other people’s playlists that have the album you are hearing. These two features have been the source of many, no most, of my new favorite artists. Qobuz doesn’t seem to have a similar thing unless I’m too much of a rookie with it.
What are your tips to find new artists you’ve never heard of with Qobuz?

That sounds like a good feature Amazon has for discovering new music. I'm a Qobuz subscriber and I don't think it offers that level of suggestions for music. I am currently running Roon with Qobuz and it has tools that can find music of similar tastes, called Roon Radio and it has worked OK, but I am very particular about what I listen to, and sometimes it just gets it wrong too which is very frustrating! I'm probably going to cancel Roon after my year is over.

 

[elcoholic]

Those streaming service algorithms and playlists only scratch the surface in my opinion. They are also prone to repetition which is a non-starter for me, especially for a paid service. Sometimes I get a bit overwhelmed by too much to choose from on Tidal. When that happens I turn to AK now playing threads. There’s a lot of them chocked full of good suggestions for a wide range of genres.

 

[GChief]

Those streaming service algorithms and playlists only scratch the surface in my opinion. Sometimes I get a bit overwhelmed by too much to choose from on Tidal. When that happens I turn to AK now playing threads. There’s a lot of them chocked full of good suggestions for a wide range of genres.

I tried a few of the "Mixes for You" and looked through the Suggested Tracks, went back to my hitting the magnifying glass and searching by genre for new stuff. This seems to work best for me.

 

[+48V]

Those streaming service algorithms and playlists only scratch the surface in my opinion. They are also prone to repetition which is a non-starter for me, especially for a paid service. Sometimes I get a bit overwhelmed by too much to choose from on Tidal. When that happens I turn to AK now playing threads. There’s a lot of them chocked full of good suggestions for a wide range of genres.

In my experience Spotify rules the roost on suggestion and radio algorithms. Rarely do their on the fly or calculated playlists get repetitive or too familiar for me. Other services lag well behind in this regard. Maybe sometime soon they will offer lossless for the audiophiles