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Lost oomph after recap Marantz 1060

M

Madmurphy13

New Member
Hey, I've just had a Marantz 1060 recapped, obviously I expect a slight sound change when that's done, but I don't think I was ready for just how much bass I seem to have lost. An old hiss is now gone, and the mid and highs seem a lot clearer, but I've also lost the tight punch and low end clarity that it had before. Is this to be expected or should I perhaps call the shop up about it? Even when adding a little more bass with the dials, it's just distorted and muddy.

I should also add that the volume is considerably lower, used to be that I would have it above say just north of a quarter or a third in a small room, as it would be uncomfortably loud. But now, I'm having it half way up to get a good volume out of it. Help! Cos I really think I would have rather dealt with the hiss I had before than this loss of bigness and excitement in the sound, as the hiss stayed low even when changing the volume so I could easily push music past it and enjoy the sound.
 
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Using the same speakers as before? By chance have you reversed polarity on one? Beyond that you will have to inspect the work that was done, note note what brand of caps and values were installed (especially on the power board and the 3 biggies). If nothing stands out as wrong I would say you have a mystery problem that should be addressed by who did the work. New caps should sound all around better, not worse in any way.
 
I would love that to have been it but unfortunately no, I swapped cables and check (later than I'd care to admit lol). The shop kindly bagged the old capacitors and gave them to me so I guess I'll check them out when I get chance. I'm still going to call the shop anyway, see what they say.

It's such a shame you know, this thing filled a room before, now the excitement is gone. Gah!
 
Ok I had a quick look. The 2 smaller of the big three capacitors are showing a different value.

Old are 55v 3000uf
New ones are 63v 3300uf

Could this be where my problem is coming from?
 
Not likely, IMHO. That's close enough for gubment work.

How long has it been since recap? Often, things need to break in and settle down, and that bass you loved might be those tired old caps not doing what they're meant to do, but I'm not there both pre and post, you are.

I hope it comes around. Every single receiver I had recapped was light years better than before.
 
Madmurphy13 said:
Ok I had a quick look. The 2 smaller of the big three capacitors are showing a different value.

Old are 55v 3000uf
New ones are 63v 3300uf

Could this be where my problem is coming from?
Click to expand...
Those are perfectly acceptable caps. These 2 are the coupling caps on the channel outputs (DC blocking caps).
- The higher voltage is a "best practice" choice and is probably the nearest value for a replacement cap (choice was either 50V or 63V....always go up in working voltage).
- As for the capacitance value, also good choice. For a given frequency, capacitive reactance gets lower as the capacitance increases, so less resistance meaning more signal is passed to the speakers. But higher capacitance is not always better.

When you say recapped; was this on the entire amplifier? Maybe the signal coupling caps values in the pre-amp and tone control stages were altered? In these stages the capacitance values should not be changed...changing values (>10%) in these front-end stages can have dramatic effects at the final output. Again OK for voltage rating to go higher but not necessarily capacitance value.
 
Upping that cap value should acually tighten up the bass a bit at higher volumes as the amp can run out of steam so to speak. With cap coupled amps, the coupling caps can have a hard time keeping up at high volumes and the bass will start to sound loose and flabby.
I used Leestereo's BOM several ago when I restored two 1060's.
Upping the coupling cap value was one thing that was done.
I don't recall having to let either amp break in to sound good, or have decent bass. If you did a full recap, look over all your work.
 
It seems like they key thing here is the loss in volume and added distortion. Did the shop replace any transistors or other parts?
 
Lavane said:
Upping that cap value should acually tighten up the bass a bit at higher volumes as the amp can run out of steam so to speak. With cap coupled amps, the coupling caps can have a hard time keeping up at high volumes and the bass will start to sound loose and flabby.
I used Leestereo's BOM several ago when I restored two 1060's.
Upping the coupling cap value was one thing that was done.
I don't recall having to let either amp break in to sound good, or have decent bass. If you did a full recap, look over all your work.
Click to expand...
Yea, agree. But not sure what all changed with the OPs 1060.
Transistors aside, changing the RC time constants in the preamp and tone control (as is the tone function) change can definitely alter the sound a lot.
 
jhjove said:
Yea, agree. But not sure what all changed with the OPs 1060.
Transistors aside, changing the RC time constants in the preamp and tone control (as is the tone function) change can definitely alter the sound a lot.
Click to expand...
I didn't change any resistor or cap values on the tone, phono or amp boards in mine. I did replace small value electrolytics with film caps though.
Hopefully the OP didn't hange any on the tone and EQ boards. Some cap values I did change on the power supply board along with the main filter cap and coupling caps. Nothing crazy high value wise though.
 
Don’t RC ( resistance capacitance ) circus determine the frequencies that make it to the speaker outputs? I know that’s a simplification but I’m going with one of those circuits that handles the bass is wrong. Maybe a higher level tech can elaborate
 
I think the key here are the words "just distorted and muddy". Also "the volume is considerably lower". That's not normal.

It shouldn't sound distorted in any way after a full recap. I'd contact the shop who did the work and ask them to check the unit again and do some measurements with an oscilloscope. If the unit is performing fine, ask for a prove of that, ask to see the oscilloscope output under a dummy load.

But if the volume is much lower, and it sounds distorted, something definitely is not right. Perhaps a capacitor backwards, a solder bridge here or there, a broken pcb trace, whatever, but IMHO something went wrong in that repair.
 
elnaldo said:
I think the key here are the words "just distorted and muddy". Also "the volume is considerably lower". That's not normal.

It shouldn't sound distorted in any way after a full recap. I'd contact the shop who did the work and ask them to check the unit again and do some measurements with an oscilloscope. If the unit is performing fine, ask for a prove of that, ask to see the oscilloscope output under a dummy load.

But if the volume is much lower, and it sounds distorted, something definitely is not right. Perhaps a capacitor backwards, a solder bridge here or there, a broken pcb trace, whatever, but IMHO something went wrong in that repair.
Click to expand...
Exactly. As I stated earlier, the OP needs to go over his work. Checking every componant change, look for solder bridges, wiring etc.
Some solder bridges can be difficult to see when some solder pads are ery close to each other. I have a large lighted magnifier on my bench along with a smaller lighted hand held magnifier. Also check the filter board maybe? Make sure the buttons work properly. The one basket case 1060 that came to me in many pieces had a faulty filter switch.
 
Also bear in mind that some electrolytic capacitor manufacturers have been manufacturing capacitors with a value near the bottom of their tolerance range, (cheeky B******s). So your 3,300µF might be ~2,800µF now. So whereas it was useful to 'up' the value so the new capacitor fitted the 'lead pitch' on a PCB or a capacitor clamp diameter, it is now more of a necessity to beat those cheese-paring so-and-so's. I always check new capacitor values before I use them, and I am pleased to say this tomfoolery has now died down considerably, and values for the most part seem reliable again.

Add to that, 'lack of liveliness' in a newly recapped amplifier is quite common. While I disagree with capacitor burn-in per se, I do think that over the first few days of use (maybe as long as a week), they do improve, sometimes quite dramatically, and the life returns and sounds better than ever before.

As stated above, there does seem to be something wrong with your unit, it shouldn't sound as you describe.
 
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