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Loudness - On or Off?

The original loudness controls were put there for low level listenning because of the Fletcher Molsen?? effect. Your ears are not linear at all and their sensitivity to low frequencies changes with loudness. So the low boost was put there to compensate for it. There is nothing wrong with using it low level. At high levels bad idea.

Rob2
 
I have a parametric EQ with memorized settings for each input. I find that settings vary depending on what my source is and "loudness" controls are too general. EQ is a necessary evil. Usually if I'm worried about waking the neighbors or the significant other, I use headphones.

I'm also on board with Eric and TRC...When sound engineers mix down for CD's, tapes, whatever, it is their job to make sure that that same piece of media is compatible on home stereos, mini-systems, car stereos, boom-boxes, walkmans...you name it. The compress the CRAP out of that signal! I'd be interested in hooking up an expander to my home system and see how it sounds.
 
Eric, D-Zyne and TRC,

When you say that engineers 'compress' a signal, what exactly do you mean by that? Why do they compress the signal? Also, D-Zyne, I have never heard of an 'expander.' What exactly does this do to the sound?

-jb
 
A compressor is a device that decreases dynamic range. It has many uses in the recording field, but for final mixing its primary purpose is to "even out" the volume so that there are no drastic changes. The engineer sets a certain ratio-for example 2:1. That means for every increase in volume of 2db going in, the output only changes by 1db. It essentially "squashes" the signal. In addition to lowering high volumes, it also raises low levels and fits everything within a very narrow bandwidth. There is not a studio in existence that does not have a compressor.
In actual practice, these devices have a huge impact not only on volume but the attack, decay, and "punch" of the sound as well. An expander is the opposite...during playback, it "uncompresses" the sound by a set ratio, thereby restoring dynamic range.

I've spent many years in recording studios and the amount of signal processing that occurs during the recording process is truly disturbing.
 
Originally posted by D-Zyne
A compressor is a device that decreases dynamic range...it also raises low levels and fits everything within a very narrow bandwidth.
Click to expand...

Good description of dynamic compressors/expanders with the exception that they do nothing to the bandwidth. They only modify the dynamic range.
 
Fletcher-Munson, AKA "equal loudness curves"

At high levels, the loudness switch can compensate for the Fosters-Molson effect.:p:
 
D-Zyne,

Great answer to my questions about compressors/expanders. Who makes these expanders? How much $$$ are we talking about for one of those?
 
Yeah Baby.....

Loudness ON Bass up until it distorts.
Then I sit back and let my double Advents just SHAKE the house:D :D
 
I remember we had a similar, heated debate back in July when Kamakiri asked whether we use or not tone controls (if memory serves well).
Very fast we had two sides:

a) Tone controls as well as loudness are clearly diabolical objects that should be expelled from the audiophile's room. If not satified with the way it sounds, keep changing things (some of them cheap, some expensive) until you feel satisfied without any tone correction.

b) Use tone controls if you happen to need/enjoy/favor them.

I push the loudness button on when the volume is low because my ears are far from perfect.
 
they do nothing to the bandwidth. They only modify the dynamic range.

Yeah, bandwidth wasn't the word I wanted to use there but I had a brain fart.

Ooops!

:rolleyes:
 
OK... so what is the difference between the loudness switch and just turning the volume up the same amount of dbs?
 
Re: Bah

Originally posted by Kamakiri
Bass on about 75%, treble on full, loudness on depending on the volume, with my Mc system I leave the contour flat.

Every time I've heard anything with the tone completely defeated unless it's something like Dido or Sarah McLachlan it sounds like an AM radio.

I like bass in my bass and treble in my treble :D
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I hear ya Kam, since my MP3 player (winamp) on my PC has a built in EQ which has presets (or you can set them) I leave it enabled and set to "rock" which is basically full treble, full bass. I am sure if the signal goin to my preamp wasn't already tweaked I would use my tone controls ;)
 
Originally posted by House de Kris
The last preamp I owned that had a loudness button (Marantz 3200), I stopped using over 20 years ago. Tone controls have always been defeated. In fact, I stopped using my graphic equalizer about 10 years ago, and I think that was a good idea. I used to use my EQ for fixing room effects, but I am now of the opinion this is the wrong way to deal with the room itself.
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Kris if that EQ has bouncy light effects you know who would like it! ;)
 
Originally posted by THOR
Kris if that EQ has bouncy light effects you know who would like it! ;)
Click to expand...

That EQ is the Audio Control C-101, and yes it has 90 LEDs for a spectrum analyser. In fact, everytime I look at it recently, I smile and think of THOR. I will confess here, only once on a public forum, that I only use it for the Bouncy Lights (TM). Sorry friend, I'm gonna keep it. I stopped using the EQ section of it a decade ago, but I still like the lights.
 
Uh Oh, you did it now :eek:

I am saving your quote on my HD and printing off a hard copy, you better not run for office or nothing cuz I'll blackmail ya! Who's gonna take you seriously now? You'll be grouped in with the rest of the light loonies like me ;) You shoulda just quietly packed it up and sent it to me :D
 
Jo,

The difference between the loudness switch, and the volume knob.

The loudness switch imparts a boost to the low end, and the high end. It leaves the mids alone. This is for low level listening only (or intended as such, use it as you like). Our ears don't "read" the deep bass or high end at low volume levels. This switch allows you to enjoy a certain amount of full-range signal at times when it is not convenient or practical to listen at normal to loud listening levels. At a certain level, our ears start to hear "normally". That is, unless they're damaged (the ears) they hear the lows and highs as loud as they interpret the mids. At THAT point and beyond, the switch can be turned off.

The volume control makes the ENTIRE frequency range louder or softer at the same time.

The whole thing is because our ears aren't perfect.

To further bore, the combination of loudness switch engaged, with bass control increased, and maybe even the equalizer helping out the low end, on a low to mid powered receiver (anything up to 40wpc in my opinion), is asking for speaker problems. Maybe even begging.

Toasted Almond
 
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I've heard both sides of this story, and I just don't buy the 'audiophile' explanation that says if you don't like the sound, you need to change your setup (instead of resorting to the tone controls).

In my opinion, that's pretty much an impossibility since every recording I play through my system is quite different......some sound perfect to my ears with no tone controls used, but there are others that appear to be 'missing something', and so a little tweaking with the bass, treble, or midrange can work wonders in bringing a subpar recording to life. I don't believe the need to tweak certain recordings arises from weaknesses in my system - those recordings would sound imperfect to me no matter how fantastic the setup.

Granted, if your idea of the perfect system is for the sound output to be as true to the original recording as possible, then yes, using tone controls to alter the sound is an abomination. Like all of us here, I want the sound coming out of my speakers to sound great, but I don't have anything against using my tone controls to make my music sound the way I want it to, even if it isn't absolutely true to the recording.

The way I see it, audio is all about making the listening experience enjoyable to you. If using the tone controls makes that experience all the better, why not use it?
 
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Little voice in my head...

Whenever I juice the loudness, or tone controls I always hear this nagging voice telling me what a bad little audiophile wannabe I am. Am I alone?

It seems that all this "100% flat" snobbery has given me a complex. Still I fight the urge to pretend I like it flat. Give me bass I say, give me treble!

For me I like music like I like girls, with tits and ass! It's so much more exciting this way.

Stew.
 
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