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Low watts vs high watts and sound quality

I know this is a hobby that you just have to listen to an amp and see if you like it. My passion has been drums and cymbals for 15 years. If I can see A picture of a cymbal, know when it was made, who made it, and how much it weighs I have a pretty damn good idea if I will like it. Same with vintage drums. If Ludwig made it between 1960 and 1974 I'm good. Everything I have read on hear about sound characteristic of Marantz, Sansui, Pioneer, etc seemed spot on when I heard those in person. So besides hearing the amp in person no formula can be applied to see if it will meet your needs? Or am I chasing an idea that doesn't apply to vintage audio?
 
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Vintagear said:
Yes that's correct but I would hope the majority members on this forum are not that naive. I assume most have a basic understand of how to compare specs.
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If I didn't see as many threads questioning/discussing specs I'd agree. But, it's not an infrequent topic.


THD is the low hanging fruit and it's way too easy to harp on just one spec like THD. Only when taken into account with several other specs can one begin to draw performance conclusions which are objective. Notice I didn't say sound quality, because that's subjective.Obviously someone who prefers the sound of tubes will not be too concerned with THD numbers.
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Yeah, it's just one example but a very commonly discussed one. That's why I chose it for the example. In previous posts I clearly indicated my opinion - there is no one magic number.


For a moment, lets assume you do hear the difference and prefer low distortion amps and happen to be comparing two amps on that spec alone (don't know why anyone would do that but this is hypothetical) - based on your example if a "fancy-schmancy" amp had a 0.005% rating at 150W and the other amp had a rating of 0.5% at 110W couldn't you surmise that the first amp would have an even lower THD than 0.005% at the 110W mark and even less at a lower wattage? Unless I'm missing something, it wouldn't matter if the "fancy-schmancy" amp had a higher THD @ 180W than it does at 150W.
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No, you can't assume that. If you examine the distortion curve of typical SS amp you'll see they vaguely resemble a bathtub curve. Yeah, the slope is considerably more steep at the high end but the upper middle ground, a little before the THD shoots way up, is often the lowest distortion point.

This sort of thing is where the type of phrase, "what we really need is 1 good watt" came from.

Example -

99ML23FIG1.jpg
 
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Back in the eighties, many people were spec heads. Part of my job being a "sales consultant" was to try to educate (yet also sell, LOL). Many (most of the) times, no matter what you said, or did, or demoed, their mind was made up. Numbers are good and are important, but are only part of the equation. Tube amps being a perfect example.
 
whoaru99 said:
If I didn't see as many threads questioning/discussing specs I'd agree. But, it's not an infrequent topic.
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I agree they're not the end all but they shouldn't be thrown out with that bathwater either.

whoaru99 said:
Yeah, it's just one example but a very commonly discussed one. That's why I chose it for the example. In previous posts I clearly indicated my opinion - there is no one magic number.
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Agreed.

whoaru99 said:
No, you can't assume that. If you examine the distortion curve of typical SS amp you'll see they vaguely resemble a bathtub curve. Yeah, the slope is considerably more steep at the high end but the upper middle ground, a little before the THD shoots way up, is often the lowest distortion point.

This sort of thing is where the type of phrase, "what we really need is 1 good watt" came from.

Example -

View attachment 685028
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Good point. I should have said something like "couldn't you surmise that usually in the majority or most of the measured graph...". In the end you really only know when you compare it with another amp. Here's an overlay of the ML 23.5 that you referenced with the ML 532H (in red). Not the clearest picture but it illustrates what we're talking about:





Again, in the end specs are what they are and they're not for everyone nor should they be solely relied upon. At the same time, they should not be entirely dismissed.

For the type of sound that I currently prefer (amps/ speakers) I like to look at specs and use them as a tool to guide me yet always let my ears be the final arbiter. Speaking for myself I like that outfits like Stereophile and Audioholics still put products on the bench,otherwise all we would be left with is a scenario where every audio reviewer is gushing about how wonderful something sounded to him.
 
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image.jpeg. Update. Picked this guy up today for $200. Everything works great. I can't believe how good it sounds. Really clean and detailed. Watched North By Northwest with the lady and she even commented on how nice everything sounds. 14 tube watts is plenty for the room it's it. Keeping the Pioneer, but this little Kenwood is exactly hat I was looking for.
 
The pioneer sx 1280 is no slouch either & I've owned several sx series including the sx 650 and its a fine receiver you have. Matched up to your EQ
and speakers you could be right in the music zone. Sit back and enjoy!!
 
For me, 40-50 watt SS is most practical and best sounding. I favor the best before cost cutting and overdesign crept in. I love tube gear but also the tubes favor uber efficient speakers which usually are large if full range reproduction is desired (I am not a subwoofer person)
 
It's all about synergy as stated earlier. It's match between power amp section and speakers.

I have tried maybe 12 different receivers and/or integrated amps with my Infinity RS-5000 speakers over a period of maybe 5 years. None really did it until I recently plugged in an old TEAC receiver - bingo.

And that was just because I needed something to drive them while I was doing other system moves/swaps. Never in a million years would I have put that combo together on paper...

So why your SX-650 sounds better - is 'casue it likes your speakers better :)
 
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