LP Gear Technics Hyper Elliptical Question
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sxty8goats
Super Member
Most likely the HEs is a Shabata cut. Most of the people here that have bought them have said that they are produced by JICO (Japan). Originally designed to pick up the very high frequencies that quadraphonic records used to encode the quad channels. I have a shabata on a Stanton 680. Very good cart/stylus on 70's era recordings.
Balifly
Listening
Base upon the information provided in the OP, a search at LPgear for Technics P-28 stylus came up with this.
E
http://www.lpgear.com/product/PAS028ES.html
HE
http://www.lpgear.com/product/PAS028HE.html
There are;
EPS - 128
EPS - 202
EPS - 228
Eps - 328
at $44.95 dollar.
It is a new web site, the search engine may not be working properly .:scratch2:
E
http://www.lpgear.com/product/PAS028ES.html
HE
http://www.lpgear.com/product/PAS028HE.html
There are;
EPS - 128
EPS - 202
EPS - 228
Eps - 328
at $44.95 dollar.
It is a new web site, the search engine may not be working properly .:scratch2:
I purchased one of the LPGear HE's
Took the following photos of it through the microscope.
I never played it. - It went straight back as it did not appear to be a HE, but a conical.
LPgear provided me a refund. (I would have preferred a HE stylus!) - no refund was provided for the shipping costs back and forth from Australia...
I strongly recommend a USB microscope like this (Aldi Traveller)... otherwise I would have tried it and been disappointed - and assumed the problem was something else.
bye for now
David
Took the following photos of it through the microscope.
I never played it. - It went straight back as it did not appear to be a HE, but a conical.
LPgear provided me a refund. (I would have preferred a HE stylus!) - no refund was provided for the shipping costs back and forth from Australia...
I strongly recommend a USB microscope like this (Aldi Traveller)... otherwise I would have tried it and been disappointed - and assumed the problem was something else.
bye for now
David
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I wish I knew - I have asked the question too!
All the EPC22/202/23/24/25/28/128/328/33/30 are interchangeable and use the same format!
There MAY be some compliance variations...
these may be made by Jico, and looking at the Jico website (sticking exclusively to the elipticals):
EPS202 http://shop.jico.co.jp/products/detail.php?code=A025420 VTF=1 to 1.5
EPS22 http://shop.jico.co.jp/products/detail.php?code=A025091 VTF=1.5 to 2
EPS23 http://shop.jico.co.jp/products/detail.php?code=A025540 VTF=1.5 to 2
EPS24 http://shop.jico.co.jp/products/detail.php?code=A025560 VTF=1.5 to 2
EPS25 http://shop.jico.co.jp/products/detail.php?code=A025580 VTF=1.5 to 2
In the original Technics cartridges the EPS202 was the top of the line...
Perhaps the VTF's reflect higher compliance on the EPS202?
Jico certainly make HE and Shibata needles and the Turntableneedles and LPgear people may have custom ordered batches using these needles rather than the standard elipticals or SAS.
Would be nice to get some specs on LPGears "vivid line" styli... they may be Shibata, or HE.... who knows?
The one I purchased was labelled EPS23HE
But it was in LPGear packaging not Jico packaging, so how meaningful the model number is, I am not sure. It certainly was of the pfanstiehl 718 family.
All the cartridges in that family that I own have equivalent electrical parameters (inductance/resistance) - and the period documents from Technics I have found appear to differentiate these on stylus alone.
bye for now
David
All the EPC22/202/23/24/25/28/128/328/33/30 are interchangeable and use the same format!
There MAY be some compliance variations...
these may be made by Jico, and looking at the Jico website (sticking exclusively to the elipticals):
EPS202 http://shop.jico.co.jp/products/detail.php?code=A025420 VTF=1 to 1.5
EPS22 http://shop.jico.co.jp/products/detail.php?code=A025091 VTF=1.5 to 2
EPS23 http://shop.jico.co.jp/products/detail.php?code=A025540 VTF=1.5 to 2
EPS24 http://shop.jico.co.jp/products/detail.php?code=A025560 VTF=1.5 to 2
EPS25 http://shop.jico.co.jp/products/detail.php?code=A025580 VTF=1.5 to 2
In the original Technics cartridges the EPS202 was the top of the line...
Perhaps the VTF's reflect higher compliance on the EPS202?
Jico certainly make HE and Shibata needles and the Turntableneedles and LPgear people may have custom ordered batches using these needles rather than the standard elipticals or SAS.
Would be nice to get some specs on LPGears "vivid line" styli... they may be Shibata, or HE.... who knows?
The one I purchased was labelled EPS23HE
But it was in LPGear packaging not Jico packaging, so how meaningful the model number is, I am not sure. It certainly was of the pfanstiehl 718 family.
All the cartridges in that family that I own have equivalent electrical parameters (inductance/resistance) - and the period documents from Technics I have found appear to differentiate these on stylus alone.
bye for now
David
No, hyper-elliptical is not Shibata.
Pio1980
AK Member
From the pics the profile at the tip looks thinner fore/aft than side-to-side and the curve looks elliptical /hyper-elliptical to me. IIRC LP Gear et al provides a hyper-elliptical called "Vivid", possibly from Namiki/ JICO, for some of their lines.
Unfortunately the Aldi Traveller seems long-gone from the stores.
Unfortunately the Aldi Traveller seems long-gone from the stores.
Some of the styli - well it is hard to spot the planes/profiles...
But I have Empire 4D's, AT Shibata's, ADC Shibata's, Shure, Ortofon, Jico and empire elipticals, AT Microline, Jico SAS ... all of these I can see the planes where they have been cut/ground, and clearly identify them as their respective shapes.
On an eliptical you would see a plane when viewing fore/aft - from the side an eliptical looks identical to a conical.
The HE (basic line contact) cut should have two planes on the front and two on the rear of the diamond... these planes are what gets lit up as you move the lights about... No planes on this one!
I will admit that I do not know what a true hyperbolic tip looks like - it may in fact have a gentle curve rather than facets - which would make it much harder to see. But hypereliptical is well known!!
Hopefully I will have another well known HE tip in my hands any day now (V15VHRP) - I will take a look at that shape to confirm what a HE tip should look like! (Well I will check it out regardless - as I do all styli I can get my hands on!!)
bye for now
David
p.s. I also bought an AT15ss stylus from LPgear - and it is simply superb, both visually and in action on the TT... Nothing against LPGear, but they could have handled this a bit better - or offered to bear some of the shipping costs... (bit grumpy about that!)
But I have Empire 4D's, AT Shibata's, ADC Shibata's, Shure, Ortofon, Jico and empire elipticals, AT Microline, Jico SAS ... all of these I can see the planes where they have been cut/ground, and clearly identify them as their respective shapes.
On an eliptical you would see a plane when viewing fore/aft - from the side an eliptical looks identical to a conical.
The HE (basic line contact) cut should have two planes on the front and two on the rear of the diamond... these planes are what gets lit up as you move the lights about... No planes on this one!
I will admit that I do not know what a true hyperbolic tip looks like - it may in fact have a gentle curve rather than facets - which would make it much harder to see. But hypereliptical is well known!!
Hopefully I will have another well known HE tip in my hands any day now (V15VHRP) - I will take a look at that shape to confirm what a HE tip should look like! (Well I will check it out regardless - as I do all styli I can get my hands on!!)
bye for now
David
p.s. I also bought an AT15ss stylus from LPgear - and it is simply superb, both visually and in action on the TT... Nothing against LPGear, but they could have handled this a bit better - or offered to bear some of the shipping costs... (bit grumpy about that!)
Pio1980
AK Member
Well, it's not Like Australia is half-way around the world from Las Vegas or anything.:thumbsdn:
I still recommend them tho', never any problems here and good stuff!
Still, if they confirmed hyper-elliptical tip then they didn't hit you for return restocking fee.
Keep these postings coming, educational for all.
I still recommend them tho', never any problems here and good stuff!
Still, if they confirmed hyper-elliptical tip then they didn't hit you for return restocking fee.
Keep these postings coming, educational for all.
Pio1980
AK Member
Well, it's not Like Australia is half-way around the world from Las Vegas or anything.:thumbsdn: Still, if they confirmed hyper-elliptical tip then they didn't hit you for return restocking fee---:thmbsp:.
I still recommend them, good stuff and no probs of note.
Keep these postings coming, educational for all.
(I still want an aldi Traveller)
I still recommend them, good stuff and no probs of note.
Keep these postings coming, educational for all.
(I still want an aldi Traveller)
flavio81
Turntable technician
I have ordered the hyperelliptical for the P202C cartridge before from LPgear and it didn't look like this. It looked like an HE tip (more on this later) and it sounded GREAT.
I think they just picked up the wrong needle.
flavio81
Turntable technician
Hi David, the HE has no visible cut planes, it is smooth all the way, unlike an elliptical or a Shibata. And it's not really a "basic line contact" though, it is a shape that came after the Shibata. It was created by Shure with the main goal of reducing playback distortion. The main goal of the Shibata was to provide an extended contact footprint. The HE's contact area is smaller (relative to the Shibata). The hyperbolic is also a Shure shape that is probably a variation on the Shibata. It was created for an extended contact footprint and AFAIK only used on the Shure M24H.
Behold, the Jico HE:
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You have me very confused now....
I thought the HE was a modified Shibata shape but with narrower minor radius - narrower than the "small shibata"
Comments on the VE stylus thread were that it was very similar to the stereohedron but differing in sizing...
I have stereohedrons, and the planes are visible... from the back as per a shibata (except narrower)... have to admit I have not checked from front on to see whether the front planes are also just as visible.
By the way - have you plotted the F/R for this stylus?
I would love to know the cantilever resonance for this stylus (which would tell me whether I should try again for a HE, or hold off for a SAS...) - I can calculate it from a F/R plot in combination with the loading parameters (R & C) as well as the cartridge inductance...
bye for now
David
I thought the HE was a modified Shibata shape but with narrower minor radius - narrower than the "small shibata"
Comments on the VE stylus thread were that it was very similar to the stereohedron but differing in sizing...
I have stereohedrons, and the planes are visible... from the back as per a shibata (except narrower)... have to admit I have not checked from front on to see whether the front planes are also just as visible.
By the way - have you plotted the F/R for this stylus?
I would love to know the cantilever resonance for this stylus (which would tell me whether I should try again for a HE, or hold off for a SAS...) - I can calculate it from a F/R plot in combination with the loading parameters (R & C) as well as the cartridge inductance...
bye for now
David
I just received a Shure V15HRP - with HE stylus.
On close inspection I can see the meeting point between the front curve and the back curve...
Rather than using a cutting method, these appear to have been made by grinding two curves - front and back, so they meet at a line - line contact.
Due to it all being curved, it is hard to differentiate between conical and HE under the microscope - you need to capture that side on view, and light it in such a way that the division between the two curves appears (which I just managed to do...)
Referring back to my LPGear HE photo's I did not have the lighting in a position where the shots are convincing one way or the other - so it could indeed be a HE stylus - I just don't know now.
I was perhaps a little gun-shy after having picked up several duds that were conical when they should have been shibata... and the Shibata's are much easier to spot due to their clear cut planes.
I may owe LPG an apology...
bye for now
David
On close inspection I can see the meeting point between the front curve and the back curve...
Rather than using a cutting method, these appear to have been made by grinding two curves - front and back, so they meet at a line - line contact.
Due to it all being curved, it is hard to differentiate between conical and HE under the microscope - you need to capture that side on view, and light it in such a way that the division between the two curves appears (which I just managed to do...)
Referring back to my LPGear HE photo's I did not have the lighting in a position where the shots are convincing one way or the other - so it could indeed be a HE stylus - I just don't know now.
I was perhaps a little gun-shy after having picked up several duds that were conical when they should have been shibata... and the Shibata's are much easier to spot due to their clear cut planes.
I may owe LPG an apology...
bye for now
David