LPs versus CDs

[Zeromancer]

ABSOLUTELY

Also, I think the format of Lps has an advantage. Cds look cheap and chincy with all that plastic. Lps were/are art. Mp3s reminded everyone that if we continue on this path, we would end up with nothing! just a file on a MacBook which can be erased. And that thought has sent me back to LPs.

This is a slightly materialistic view, but I still think it's meaningful.

I'm with you on this one also.

 

[resqguy]

So let me get this right. The reason LPs sound better is..

#1 Nostalgia

#2 Because the distortion and noise on the LP makes the music sound better?

Based on that if you put a CD in a big sleeve and remaster the CD by adding noise you would make it better.

 

[iLUVanalog]

I can tell you why.. Cause my wife says so...

With even as "monstrous" of a system she believes we have, and not being into music a fraction of what I am, my wife just doesn't want me to play any CD's

She says CD's sound like crap, and you can never get the sound from them that you can from an album...

That's all the reason I need to not buy CD's and keep adding to the stack of wax... :tresbon:

I also believe it is a scientifically proven fact that the lovely ladies' hearing is superior to that of us guys....so they know what they're talking about when it comes to sound QUALITY.

 

[House de Kris]

So let me get this right. The reason LPs sound better is..

#1 Nostalgia

#2 Because the distortion and noise on the LP makes the music sound better?

Based on that if you put a CD in a big sleeve and remaster the CD by adding noise you would make it better.

DANG! resqguy beat me to it. Going further, proponents of vinyl playback should also be big fans of MP3, since it adds a bunch of noise and distortion to the music. BTW, JEJ, Jr has a number of factual errors in the article cited by Brett a. But hey, who cares since we are talking about enjoyment, not accuracy.

 

[pahtcenter77]

Their big argument is "LPs wear out"

That's bull puckey. Tell them it's just like sex - the needle usually wears out long before the groove does.

 

[x_25]

DANG! resqguy beat me to it. Going further, proponents of vinyl playback should also be big fans of MP3, since it adds a bunch of noise and distortion to the music. BTW, JEJ, Jr has a number of factual errors in the article cited by Brett a. But hey, who cares since we are talking about enjoyment, not accuracy.

although MP3s ad distortion that is unpleasant. Vinyl (and tube amps) add second order harmonics, which are pleasant sounding.

 

[hifiqs]

LPs vs CDs

LPs have been around for what, 90 years or so? CDs have been around for about 25. If MP3s (and the new fad toward "loud") don't send them the way of the 8 track, CDs should get better.

 

[House de Kris]

although MP3s ad distortion that is unpleasant. Vinyl (and tube amps) add second order harmonics, which are pleasant sounding.

OK, fair enough. I guess it wasn't obvious enough that what I wrote was, indeed, humor. Some of us, though, go through great lengths to minimize noise and distortion to listen to music in as clean of a presentation as possible. But, I can certainly understand if someone likes noise and distortion, as opposed to pure music, how it can influence their preferences. To each their own. Note, there is no humor in this post.

 

[RobRoy]

I know vinyl is better because... it just is. But can anyone point me to a thread where people wax poetic about why? (Of course if you'd just like to yack about why, that'd be cool too.)
Since I've gotten back to vinyl after being away from it for 20 years, everyone is asking me why. Their big argument is "LPs wear out" and I shoot back "I'm after something more than permanence." How do you battle the permanence argument?
Plus I like finding LPs that never made it to CD, and most likely never will.
An extremely astute person here in Bakersfield said listening to a record, "is kind of like holding someone's hand without a glove."

I own a few hundred albums, and like you, I recently "re-discovered" vinyl. I have a Kenwood KD500 with an ADC carbon tonearm that I thought was trashed because the speed was not stable and the proprietary din cable to the tonearm had three broken wires.

I fixed the wires and found out the only problem with the motor (it's dd) is that it needed to be used! It's rock steady now.

Blah, blah, blah.

Back to the Vinyl better than CD thing.

Vinyl is better than CD in the same way a fully restored MG TC is better than a brand new Porsche Boxter. And vice-versa.

If you get my drift.

 

[RobRoy]

OK, fair enough. I guess it wasn't obvious enough that what I wrote was, indeed, humor. Some of us, though, go through great lengths to minimize noise and distortion to listen to music in as clean of a presentation as possible. But, I can certainly understand if someone likes noise and distortion, as opposed to pure music, how it can influence their preferences. To each their own. Note, there is no humor in this post.

I was a HUGE fan of Sheffield and other brand Direct to Disc Records back in the day. I still have quite a few of them. I discovered one day that my record collection consisted of really well recorded and pressed BAD music, instead of good music.

About the same time, I discovered that I was not listening to the music. I was listening to the equipment play the music. With that epiphany, my musical tastes changed almost overnight - at least my record buying habits did.

I still enjoy pulling out some Lincoln Mayorga from time to time though, if only for the memories.

 

[x_25]

OK, fair enough. I guess it wasn't obvious enough that what I wrote was, indeed, humor. Some of us, though, go through great lengths to minimize noise and distortion to listen to music in as clean of a presentation as possible. But, I can certainly understand if someone likes noise and distortion, as opposed to pure music, how it can influence their preferences. To each their own. Note, there is no humor in this post.

Fair enough. Sarcasm doesn't show very well online. For me, normal listening, I just like it to sound good, but when I am doing critical listening I like it to be as pure as possible (although I still have a lot more records than CDs because they are so darn cheep).

 

[RobRoy]

although MP3s ad distortion that is unpleasant. Vinyl (and tube amps) add second order harmonics, which are pleasant sounding.

When I became a bass player (1998), I wondered why tubes were still dominant in guitar amps while their usefulness in hi-fi had finally died. It was finally explained in an article in a music magazine, and I paraphrase:

Tubes color sound.

A hi-fi amplifier is part of the chain of components used to reproduce sound. This means you want the individual components (speakers, amp, cartridge, etc.) to add as little color as possible.

A guitar amp is part of the chain of components used to CREATE sound. Just as you WANT the wood body of an acoustic or solid body guitar to add color to the sound, the amp and speakers are prized for the color they add to the sound. A violin DEPENDS on the wood to create a major part of it's tone.

Also, when solid state breaks up it just sounds BAD. When tubes break up, it can give a really nice "warm and soft" fuzz. That is why some guys use an electrical "soaker" in their amp's speaker path to "soak" much of the power so they can get the sound of an overdriven amp without the excruciating volume.

For stereo music reproduction, In the 60's and 70's, tube amps had a slight edge on solid state, but it was quickly changing. Tubes have virtually NOTHING on modern high quality solid state today. And what they do have is really more a matter of taste than quality. Their charm is that they are RETRO. But then, is that not why so many of us use the stuff we do. How well would a lot of our equipment fare in double blind listening tests?

Naturally, you can still spend a couple years income on tube stuff, but then, there is a reason for that price, just as there is a reason there is a market for Ferraris. But just as with the Ferrari, they are nice, but the price point left the point of diminishing returns at 10%. They are about exclusivity, first and foremost.

It's not about sound. It is about coolness. Same is true with guitar amps, but to a much lesser degree. You really can come VERY close to modeling classic guitar amps with digital solid state nowadays, and they are only getting better. But it is still VERY cool to jam with a guitar player with classic equipment that knows how to use it.

Slightly relevant: Just get a BBE Sonic Maximizer to triple the sound quality of your system.

 

[RobRoy]

LP's wear out?

hmm I guess with over 2000 of them the rate of rotation has made this idea hard to see.

OK so the answer must be if your worried about your vinyl wearing out you just don't have enough vinyl.........and of course a good TT setup.

In my life I bought two albums to replace ones that had literally worn out. I think it was due to using a cheap stereo at the time. Oddly, one of them just doesn't really fit into my general music tastes and only briefly did. I think it was a time of temporary insanity.

The two albums were The Six Wives of Henry the Eighth, by Rick Wakeman, and Billion Dollar Babies, by Alice Cooper.

 

[RobRoy]

We'll it isn't exactly poetic, but here's the best source I've come across to explain why so many of us prefer the sound of vinyl. Below is an excerpt from page seven of this article:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/features/technical-topics/vinyl-vs.-cd---a-running-commentary.html

"So, what can we say at this point? It seems to me - and this is with some of the very best hi-fi components in the world - that one of the most significant reasons vinyl aficionados love the LP sound is that the distortion is very, very much like that in Pure Class A triode single-ended tube amplifiers. There is a lot of distortion, but it is just about entirely second order (even-ordered), which is euphonic, meaning that it is pleasing to the ears. This distortion profile occurs in part because the noise floor masks the higher order harmonics. So, the listener hears primarily the second order harmonics, maybe a bit of third, fourth, and fifth, depending on settings, but the really nasty sounding high order harmonics are covered up by the noise floor. You will give up some low level detail that gets buried in all that noise, but the ultimate sound is very appealing. The high level of second order harmonic distortion "enriches" the sound. It is not "accuracy", and purists will say it is not "high fidelity", but it certainly feels good. What else can I say?"

For me, this information cuts through all the arguments about the inherent superiority of one format over the other. It explains in terms that are difficult to argue against exactly what the difference is with LPs. For me, it reveals the mystery.

Which is why I say a restored MG TC is better than a new Porsche Boxter. And vice versa. I love BOTH of them better than the other, depending on my needs/wants at the time. This is exactly how I see the vinyl/CD quality comparison. :thmbsp:

 

[RobRoy]

I seem to have more problems with CD's going to **** than I do with LP's, to be honest.

Do you treat your cd's with the same care you treat your LPs? I certainly don't. 'Course, since I record 'em myself, I just re-record when too much slidin' around on the floor of my car does its damage.

 

[RobRoy]

Not being much into vinyl, I'd have to think that any play causes wear since it's a physical contact between a hard diamond and a relatively soft material.

However, I do understand that good equipment which is properly set up will minimize the wear.

And the inner grooves always wear out first. Before the days of CD's I used to hate it when my favorite song was the innermost song on the LP.

 

[electroking]

LPs have been around for what, 90 years or so? CDs have been around for about 25. If MP3s (and the new fad toward "loud") don't send them the way of the 8 track, CDs should get better.

Let's make it 60 years for LPs. If you mean flat round discs, it's over
100. As far as I'm concerned, the biggest progress in sound reproduction
was the introduction of electric recording in the mid-twenties.

 

[RobRoy]

absolutely correct slow jazz. audio "engineers"(??) have been programmed to think that louder is better. no modern CD - especially pop and rock music - sounds worth a damn because they turn the recording level way above and beyond the "red zone" of the vu meters. and when you play the CD and make the mistake of turning up the volume, all you get is a hazy, fuzzy, gritty, grainy, congested mess. the sound would be best described as white noise amplified 100-fold. i ALWAYS try to find recordings on vinyl, and resort to buying a CD only if there is absolutely no chance of finding the recording on vinyl.

I think you have hit on why enjoy Nora Jones' recordings.

 

[RobRoy]

although MP3s ad distortion that is unpleasant. Vinyl (and tube amps) add second order harmonics, which are pleasant sounding.

Of course, it is best to have no distortion at all.:yes:

 

[Urizen]

Tubes have virtually NOTHING on modern high quality solid state today.

You will find a number of members who will disagree with you and it's another horse-whipped topic.