Lubricants for Dual 1219 / 1229 - What to use?
- Thread starter wcarroll
- Start date
1229 motor noise
I have a 1229 that occasionally makes a grinding noise which appears to be coming from the motor. I'm not very saavy about working on audio equipment, and I'm thus wary of oiling the motor without knowing A) how much to apply, and B) whether this could be expected to solve the grinding problem. If the bearings are worn, are they replaceable? I love this turntable, but can't listen to it when it starts up with the noise... it's even slightly audible in the signal coming though the speakers (I've recorded a couple records to tape where I can hear it). Any advice on how to proceed here?
Thanks,
John
I have a 1229 that occasionally makes a grinding noise which appears to be coming from the motor. I'm not very saavy about working on audio equipment, and I'm thus wary of oiling the motor without knowing A) how much to apply, and B) whether this could be expected to solve the grinding problem. If the bearings are worn, are they replaceable? I love this turntable, but can't listen to it when it starts up with the noise... it's even slightly audible in the signal coming though the speakers (I've recorded a couple records to tape where I can hear it). Any advice on how to proceed here?
Thanks,
John
bohhey
Dualaholic
Does it make the noise in manual operation only? Automatic only? Both? Noise go away when you shut it off with the platter still spinning?
I'd GUESS that the motor bearings are dry. You need to completely remove the motor from the chassis (noting the wiring connections), put a witness mark on both halves of the motor & open it up in the center - I use a hammer & a large nail set & tap each of the three open areas on the bottom half & "walk" it off. Remove the pulley & completely remove the armature - be carefull - there are spacer shims that you don't want to lose on the motor shaft. Use a LITTLE oil as discussed earlier on this thread & re-assemble. It's not a bad job - just take your time.
I'd GUESS that the motor bearings are dry. You need to completely remove the motor from the chassis (noting the wiring connections), put a witness mark on both halves of the motor & open it up in the center - I use a hammer & a large nail set & tap each of the three open areas on the bottom half & "walk" it off. Remove the pulley & completely remove the armature - be carefull - there are spacer shims that you don't want to lose on the motor shaft. Use a LITTLE oil as discussed earlier on this thread & re-assemble. It's not a bad job - just take your time.
Pretty much as posted....
Taking a motor apart is a relatively easy thing to do. Three screws and nuts hold the motor to the chassis. Start by removing the motor from the chassis. If memory serves three screws hold the motor togather. As posted its a good idea to mark where the halves come apart. I use a Magic Marker for this task. Once you have the the nuts removed from the motor gently tap the half of the motor apart. Patience as posted is the key here. My 1229 was my first Dual I had to do this on. Have done other brands but never needed to do a Dual until 1999. Its become routine around here as I have six Duals and 5 are hooked up
Dont rush. I think the first time I took over an hour to get it apart and back togather. Watch for metal circular ring that is on top of armature of the motor. This is the center piece that the shafts of the motor are attached to. Mine came off and after I got the motor back togather it made a nice rattling sound :thumbsdn: Had to take it apart and super glued it back togather. Nice and quiet. Has been for years!
A word or two on lubrication. I have used single weigh 30 oil with good results. I will take up Seths advise and use a multiweight oil next time. He's been at it a tad longer than I have and his post is a good one. Good luck and post if you need more help.
Eric
Taking a motor apart is a relatively easy thing to do. Three screws and nuts hold the motor to the chassis. Start by removing the motor from the chassis. If memory serves three screws hold the motor togather. As posted its a good idea to mark where the halves come apart. I use a Magic Marker for this task. Once you have the the nuts removed from the motor gently tap the half of the motor apart. Patience as posted is the key here. My 1229 was my first Dual I had to do this on. Have done other brands but never needed to do a Dual until 1999. Its become routine around here as I have six Duals and 5 are hooked up
Dont rush. I think the first time I took over an hour to get it apart and back togather. Watch for metal circular ring that is on top of armature of the motor. This is the center piece that the shafts of the motor are attached to. Mine came off and after I got the motor back togather it made a nice rattling sound :thumbsdn: Had to take it apart and super glued it back togather. Nice and quiet. Has been for years! A word or two on lubrication. I have used single weigh 30 oil with good results. I will take up Seths advise and use a multiweight oil next time. He's been at it a tad longer than I have and his post is a good one. Good luck and post if you need more help.
Eric
1229 Motor Lube Job
Thanks very much to both of you for the replies.
In answer to bohhey's questions, it definitely does not make the noise once the motor has disengaged (with the platter still spinning), and it sure as heck sounds like the noise is coming from the motor (I can put my ear right next to it when playing). Also, I wasn't aware that I can run the 1229 in manual mode.... it appears to only be automatic. Am I missing something?
I have my 1229 propped up and am contemplating the recommended motor removal. I see two bolts, 180 deg apart from each other (underside pic attached), that appear to hold the two shell ends of the motor together. But I don't readily see the points where the motor attaches to the chassis. Must I remove the platter to access them? Would my doing so (without prior experience) potentially create more havoc? Reading Seth's posts make me wary. In the event that I am able to remove the motor and pull apart the motor cover to access the inside, is there any area inside the motor in particular to which I should make sure to sparingly apply the recommended lube?
Also, there is an offset hole in the motor's bottom (in addition to the three holes mentioned by bohhey)... would it be possible to lightly apply oil via this hole and effectively lubricate the thing without having to pull it all apart?
Am I in over my head?
Seriously, I have the time and aptitude, just no experience in the matter... any and all futher guidance with the process would be warmly appreciated.
Thanks much,
John
Thanks very much to both of you for the replies.
In answer to bohhey's questions, it definitely does not make the noise once the motor has disengaged (with the platter still spinning), and it sure as heck sounds like the noise is coming from the motor (I can put my ear right next to it when playing). Also, I wasn't aware that I can run the 1229 in manual mode.... it appears to only be automatic. Am I missing something?
I have my 1229 propped up and am contemplating the recommended motor removal. I see two bolts, 180 deg apart from each other (underside pic attached), that appear to hold the two shell ends of the motor together. But I don't readily see the points where the motor attaches to the chassis. Must I remove the platter to access them? Would my doing so (without prior experience) potentially create more havoc? Reading Seth's posts make me wary. In the event that I am able to remove the motor and pull apart the motor cover to access the inside, is there any area inside the motor in particular to which I should make sure to sparingly apply the recommended lube?
Also, there is an offset hole in the motor's bottom (in addition to the three holes mentioned by bohhey)... would it be possible to lightly apply oil via this hole and effectively lubricate the thing without having to pull it all apart?
Am I in over my head?
Seriously, I have the time and aptitude, just no experience in the matter... any and all futher guidance with the process would be warmly appreciated. Thanks much,
John
Attachments
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
The top bearing takes all the stress. You must take the thing apart to lube.
Using the short spindle, with the rear arm height lever on single, it becomes a manual-capable machine. Auto-return, though, stays functional.
Don't you have the owner's manual?
No. Just ask.
Seth
Forever Analog
Using the short spindle, with the rear arm height lever on single, it becomes a manual-capable machine. Auto-return, though, stays functional.
Don't you have the owner's manual?
No. Just ask.
Seth
Forever Analog
1229 lube
Thanks much for the tip on manual operation, that's gonna make this tt even more appealing once I lube the jmotor. In fact, I do not have a 1229 User's Manual. Where might I find one?
I did find the 1229 service manual, however, including the exploded diagrams of the motor, with which I am trying to visualize this lube job. I pulled the platter off (after finding the cotter pin), and then disconnected the motor from the chassis. After marking corresponding spots on the top and bottom motor housings, I'm trying to get access to the inside, following bohhey's recommendation of tapping through those three holes in the bottom housing using blunted nails and a hammer. It won't budge, at least not with the force I feel comfortable using. Any other secrets to pulling this sucker apart?
.
John
Thanks much for the tip on manual operation, that's gonna make this tt even more appealing once I lube the jmotor. In fact, I do not have a 1229 User's Manual. Where might I find one?
I did find the 1229 service manual, however, including the exploded diagrams of the motor, with which I am trying to visualize this lube job. I pulled the platter off (after finding the cotter pin), and then disconnected the motor from the chassis. After marking corresponding spots on the top and bottom motor housings, I'm trying to get access to the inside, following bohhey's recommendation of tapping through those three holes in the bottom housing using blunted nails and a hammer. It won't budge, at least not with the force I feel comfortable using. Any other secrets to pulling this sucker apart?
.
John
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
Send me a letter.
NoTransistors@aol.com
I will use your address to send you the .pdf on the 1219, same thing.
****. He told you to use a hammer.
No f**king hammers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remove the two long screws.
Take a snap-ring pliers that expands when you squeeze the handle.
Put between the halves, squeeze, then go 180 degrees to do other side.
It will pry apart. The windings will remain in one of the two shells. This is fine. After you loosen the screw on the side,
NOT THE TOP,
of the brass pulley, you can remove the pulley, which will free the armature.
If you have turned the screw on the top of the pulley, you will have real problems, so if this is the case, you will let me know, O.K.?
Seth
Forever Analog
NoTransistors@aol.com
I will use your address to send you the .pdf on the 1219, same thing.
****. He told you to use a hammer.
No f**king hammers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remove the two long screws.
Take a snap-ring pliers that expands when you squeeze the handle.
Put between the halves, squeeze, then go 180 degrees to do other side.
It will pry apart. The windings will remain in one of the two shells. This is fine. After you loosen the screw on the side,
NOT THE TOP,
of the brass pulley, you can remove the pulley, which will free the armature.
If you have turned the screw on the top of the pulley, you will have real problems, so if this is the case, you will let me know, O.K.?
Seth
Forever Analog
This is another thread intended to be a compendium of all such useful info -
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=434625
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=434625
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Shell Alvania #2 is now Shell Gadus.