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M97xE Tracking question

S

scottyh777

Super Member
I took my Shure M97 out of mothballs for a spin and have a question about tracking.If I remember correctly?Does the brush down deduct or add .50 grams.I think it deducts.Anyways, I used a digital scale and set it at 2.25 with guard/brush up so, 2.5 grams less .50= 1.75 grams optimal with guard/brush down.Is this correct?It sounds great but just wanted to make sure I did this correctly.Thanks.
 
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No. It is 1.25g with the brush up and 1.75g with the brush down. Remember, the brush weighs the same whether it's up or down. But in the down position it pushes down on the record effectively lightening the TF, and that is why .5g is added when it's down.

Think of standing on a scale in the bathroom and pushing down on the vanity. You become lighter. So to get back to your original weight on the scale you'd have to hold some additional weight to regain what you lost by pressing on the vanity.
 
G'day mate, Howard (just) beat me to it, but yes the optimum Shure recommended tracking weight for the M97xE is 1.25 grams. If using the 'dynamic stabiliser' brush, the tracking weight needs to be increased to 1.75 grams as the 'dynamic stabiliser' brush 'takes' .5 grams tracking weight.

It is preferable to use a proper stylus tracking weight gauge to accurately set up the tracking weights. There is lots of information here. http://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/vinyl07.html Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
So, I will use my digital scale and set to 1.75 grams with the brush in the up position.Then put the brush down and im at 1.25 grams.Is that correct?
 
scottyh777 said:
So, I will use my digital scale and set to 1.75 grams with the brush in the up position.Then put the brush down and im at 1.25 grams.Is that correct?
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No.

1.25g up.
1.75g down.

EDIT: Sorry, I misread your post. Measure with brush up 1.75g then put the brush down. Do not remeasure with brush down.
 
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G'day all, I think you misunderstand Howard. But then again it's morning here and my coffee isn't consumed completely yet, but in all seriousness I believe he has it correct.

1.75 g with the dynamic stabiliser in use equates to 1.25 grams 'actual' tracking weight. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
catman said:
G'day all, I think you misunderstand Howard. But then again it's morning here and my coffee isn't consumed completely yet, but in all seriousness I believe he has it correct.

1.75 g with the dynamic stabiliser in use equates to 1.25 grams 'actual' tracking weight. Regards, Felix aka catman.
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Ok so.This time I will just put set it at 1.75 with brush down.I was trying to keep brush out of the way when wieghing as it gets in the way.
 
scottyh777 said:
Ok but to reach 1.25 grams optimal.Is it not true that if I wiegh it with the guard up at 1.75 grams then put the guard down im at 1.75 minus .50 that brings me to optimal 1.25 grams?
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Yes, you measure the weight at the point of the needle on the scale. If the stabilizer is staying up then the desired weight is 1.25. If the brush is GOING to be put down after measuring you FIRST set the weight to 1.75, then take away the scale, drop the brush, THEN the record will see 1.25 mg at the stylus tip.

The brush must be left UP while measuring, since the spread contact point between needle and brush will throw off the accuracy of the measurement.
 
G'day all, I can't believe how complicated this is getting! The dynamic stabiliser 'brush' should clip up and lock out of the way, in the unused 'up' position. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
Ok, verified that im at 1.75.This time I simply weighed it with brush down on digital scale to exactly 1.75 grams.Sounds delightfull.
 
Measure brush up. Set to 1.75 grams. Drop the brush, play weight will now be 1.25 grams. No need for re-measure..Easy Peizy. If your playing brush up, set to 1.25 grams and leave it up. It depends if your using the brush or not.

Target weight= 1.25 gms.

If using brush while playing put brush in up position set weight at 1.75 gms.

If not using brush while playing, put brush up, set to 1.25 gms. and leave it up.

It cant get any simpler than that.

Remember your overall target force is 1.25 grams. You add .50 gram with the brush down to offset the lifting action of the brush. :yes:

Peace,

Phil
 
macman007 said:
Measure brush up. Set to 1.75 grams. Drop the brush, play weight will now be 1.25 grams. No need for re-measure..Easy Peizy. If your playing brush up, set to 1.25 grams and leave it up. It depends if your using the brush or not.

Target weight= 1.25 gms.

If using brush while playing put brush in up position set weight at 1.75 gms.

If not using brush while playing, put brush up, set to 1.25 gms. and leave it up.

It cant get any simpler than that.

Remember your overall target force is 1.25 grams. You add .50 gram with the brush down to offset the lifting action of the brush. :yes:

Peace,

Phil
Click to expand...

Yes, that's correct.
 
scottyh777 said:
Ok, verified that im at 1.75.This time I simply weighed it with brush down on digital scale to exactly 1.75 grams.Sounds delightfull.
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What does it measure with the brush UP? Should be almost the same ..the weight will be the same, but since the brush exerts .5mg on the record, that wieght is subtracted from the pressure exerted by the stylus tip. See?

It's generally considered that records sound better with the brush up, that the brush is "playing" the record to some degree. I just leave the brush down for warped records or previewing, because accidentaly bumping the arm does less damage to the record with the brush down. But for serious listening the brush is always up.
 
scottyh777 said:
Ok, verified that im at 1.75.This time I simply weighed it with brush down on digital scale to exactly 1.75 grams.Sounds delightfull.

Does anybody dispute the above?
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Well, yes. If you're getting a reading of 1.75 g with the brush down you're about a gram too heavy.

I think you're under the impression that it's the weight of the brush that creates the effect so raising it will reduce the tracking force. That, however, is the opposite of what happens.

The brush exerts a pressure of about .50 g on the surface of the record because of the damping fluid in the stylus brush assembly. That pressure actually tries to raise the stylus off the record, reducing tracking force.

You've set it on a digital scale at 1.75 g with the brush down. That means if you were to raise the brush without making any other changes and then re-weigh it you'd see a VTF of around 2.25 g, or 1.0 g above the optimal.

Go back to work. Reset the VTF on the digital scale to 1.75 g with the brush raised. Then lower it and re-check the VTF. You should see a weight close to 1.25 g.
 
boreas said:
Well, yes. If you're getting a reading of 1.75 g with the brush down you're about a gram too heavy.


You've set it on a digital scale at 1.75 g with the brush down. That means if you were to raise the brush without making any other changes and then re-weigh it you'd see a VTF of around 2.25 g, or 1.0 g above the optimal.
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Well no, the business end of the arm will remain the same weight whether the brush is up or down. The only reason for error is that the brush and stylus point are different places on the scale, thus one point is not where it should be for correct calibration.

boreas said:
Go back to work. Reset the VTF on the digital scale to 1.75 g with the brush raised. Then lower it and re-check the VTF. You should see a weight close to 1.25 g.
Click to expand...

No, the VTF ACCORDING TO THE GAUGE will be about the same, what CHANGES is the pressure at the stylus tip ON THE RECORD.

This is a very simple concept guys. The mass, or weight at 1G, is the downward pressure being exerted at the business end of the tonearm -the WHOLE arm taking into account leverage and the counterbalance. If ONLY the needle is resting on a surface, then the full downward pressure is all going through the needle. If there is ANOTHER point that is flexible enough to ride free of the main mass, then the mass of that separate piece is no longer being transmitted through the arm and the needle, but rather is now exerting its own downward pressure, its own weight being subtracted from the needle's. But the TOTAL weight at the cartridge remains the same.

Since the TOTAL weight cannot change. therefore by DISTRIBUTING the pressure among two or more points, the pressure is SHARED amongst the contact points, all the points adding up to the whole. Since the brush weighs .5mg and exerts .5mg of its own on the record, the TOTAL weight at the cartridge has to be raised by .5mg to maintain the same PRESSURE at the stylus.
 
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