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M97xE Tracking question

so what's the majority here?

brush up or brush down??

ive been using brush down, but i may go experiment more with the brush up. I was always under the impression that the brush is there for a reason, use it
 
G'day all, increasingly I tend to use the 'brush' all the time. I still can't quite believe that there has been so much 'confusion' about the optimum tracking weight.

Let's look at it another way. Presume that we don't use the brush and have it clipped up unused. Ok, in that case we simply adjust the tracking weight for 1.25 grams measured at the tip.

When we want to use the dynamic stabiliser aka the 'brush', we unclip the brush into its 'in use' position and simply add .5 grams tracking weight through the tonearms counterweight. Easy! :yes: Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
I'm a brush down guy with the M97xE and have had zero tracking issues on any of my Pioneer turntables or on my Dual.
 
And then ... the 1.25/1.75 VTF numbers are starting points. Don't get hung on that exact number, because of the dynamics of your arm bearings, etc. - you may need some variation. If you need to add a bit to get better sound, do so.

It's the sound we are after, not an engineering build. Some tables and arms will need a bit more. The best way to double check to see if you are doing well is to look at the cantilever deflection when the arm comes down. Look at it with the nominal number and then if you need to reset slightly heavier, just make sure the deflection is not obliviously overloading the suspension.
 
So... since recommended anti-skate settings are based on VTF, does it follow to use a 1.75 AS setting for brush down play?
 
has anyone really heard any difference with brush up vs brush down? i've yet to really hear any.
 
dewdude said:
has anyone really heard any difference with brush up vs brush down? i've yet to really hear any.
Click to expand...

I use mine with the brush down and measure VTF the same way Catman and the others explained it. I have tried mine both ways and like it with the brush down.
 
If you are using it with the brush up set it at 1.25 grams.

If you are using it with the brush down set it at 1.75 grams.

It all depends on whether the brush is up or down when you are using it.
 
i ran some brush up/brush down comparisons

for starters, when i go to flick the dust off the brush...i can hear my finger run across the brush...

knowing this..i dropped it down....ok, it sounded great...till i got to a silent part...and down there..amongst the noise...the garbled mess of the brush riding the grooves and transmitting the faint sound in to the cartridge

so...i'm sorry...i know you guys like your brushes down...but when it starts affecting the purity of the music by acting like a bunch of tiny styli and muddles up the overall sound..I have to draw the line.

maybe i'm the only one who's experienced this...*shrugs* but I do know the brush is picking up audio from the grooves...becauase i don't get the same garbled mess with the brush up
 
dewdude said:
has anyone really heard any difference with brush up vs brush down? i've yet to really hear any.
Click to expand...
On some arms it may not make a difference or it may not be obvious. It does help with tracking warps. But the main reason to use it is to remedy a less than ideal arm/cartridge match. When the match is not ideal, the resonant frequency of the cantilever (the frequency at which it will oscillate) falls in a less desirable range. The brush completely damps the oscillation. If you perform a resonance test with a reliable test record (not HiFiNews for those keeping score) you can watch how the cantilever jumps and bounces around at the RF with the brush up. And with it down there is nothing--quite remarkable.
 
Note that the amount of audio hash transmitted by the brush to the pickup depends upon the condition of the damper, and even the solidity of the cartridge mounting. If the brush is still soft and the fluid damping for the stabiliser still working there is less hash than with an old. hard brush and a dried damper. I can hear the hash on an old V15 MkIV with dried-out damper, but none at all on an unused V15 MkVMR.
 
If the record warrants it, run the brush down. I do on lots of records and if it's needed you'll hear the difference in a few tracks :)
 
This is the craziest thread... As usual I find Howard and Catman to be the voices of reason here... I have more experimenting to do with this up down brush thing...
 
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