Mac 4280

[62caddy]

After returning a MAC 4100 to seller b/c it was defective after claiming it was completely up to snuff, I decided to take the Mc plunge again this time with a MAC 4280. This time I spoke at length w/ seller to confirm it was right and who was son of the original owner. I really wanted a 4100 but the price was definitely right and it is a minty. That having been said, I would like to pose the question to all you McIntosh experts out there: What's your honest opinion of the 4280? I've seen a post in which one member calls it a "dog", yet the professional Mc dealers who handle used equipment on a routine basis regularly quote higher prices for the 4280/4275 and 4200 than that asked for the venerable 4100. Any insight based upon direct knowledge of the difference between the products would be most appreciated. Incidentally, the 4280 does have a remote control- a feature usually ascribed to the 4300 only as far as I can tell. Btw- Although I've heard many good things said about the 4300, I simply cannot abide that most offensive feature of some (usually inferior) audio equipment- the push button volume control.

 

[CountD]

The only thing I have heard is that the 4280 is not a reliable unit. The 4100 is pretty much bullet proof, is a classic, and the build quality is excellent - I think the best of all the Mc receivers by far. From all the things I have read from people, I would not buy the 4280 unless it was very cheap. They only made the 4280 for three years and I think there is a reason for this. The 4100 had a production run of more than 7 years, and almost everyone I have talked to really, really like it and would not trade it for anything.

 

[c_dk]

I was actually on the phone with Mr. Painchaud when he priced out the MAC4200 and had a little bit to do with it's intial $2890.00 price.

It was a expensive receiver and many dealers wanted a lower price unit so Mac subcontracted out the 4275/80. It seemed to be a nice unit and sold a couple but it did not perform as well as the 4100, 4200, or 4300(even with the Toshiba ladder volume control). We sold many more Binghamton made units despite their 1/3 more price. All you need to do is look at the schematics.

 

[MX117.MC7150]

Yes.......... was going to say about the same thing about the MAC4275/4280, but a round volume knob seems to be more important to some than is what is behind the knob (or buttons). They are not 'bad' receivers, but certainly not MACxx00 receivers, either.

 

[62caddy]

Thanks for all your input...feedback....pardon the pun(s). After I've had a chance to run my 4280 around the proverbial block, I'll post my impressions for anyone who's interested. It's a bit disappointing that a unit bearing the esteemed McIntosh nameplate should acquire such a dubious reputation. Apparently even McIntosh is not invulnerable to selling it's soul out to bean counters every once in a while. Hopefully the 4275/4280 is a one-time experiment that will not be repeated. Should the 4280 prove disappointing, I'll resume my search for a 4100 which is really what I wanted. The 4100 is legendary and probably one of the finest receivers of all time, imho. Still, I can't seem to figure why reputable dealers in second hand Mc ask significantly more for the later 4200/4275/4280s than for the 4100. One of them even says they're looking to BUY 4280s. Go figure.

 

[62caddy]

Yes.......... was going to say about the same thing about the MAC4275/4280, but a round volume knob seems to be more important to some than is what is behind the knob (or buttons). They are not 'bad' receivers, but certainly not MACxx00 receivers, either.

Unfortunately, for me a push-button volume control is a deal breaker regardless of what's behind. I owned one once and absolutely despised it. With so much good stuff out there, this poses no obstacle. Not only is it tacky, but overcomplicated, faddish and unnatural to use in practice, imho. No doubt this is why it is so rarely used on good high end equipment, if at all.

 

[CountD]

They did it with the Stereotech 1200 too - and look where that got them. They tried to do the same thing Marantz did in the 70's and no one was taking it from Mc - and a good thing too. Who made the 4280 for McIntosh? I have not been able to find any info on this.

 

[c_dk]

Mr Painchaud (head Mac bean counter) did not sell out. He priced the the MAC4200 out with absolute confidence. I talked him into 2890 instead of 2895 or 2995.

The DEALERS asked Mac to find away to market a lesser price unit as they did with Stereotech units back in the 70s. Of coarse they turned on Mac when they found out most customers would pay the extra 30% premium for an American built unit and it just confused the market.

 

[62caddy]

Mr Painchaud (head Mac bean counter) did not sell out. He priced the the MAC4200 out with absolute confidence. I talked him into 2890 instead of 2895 or 2995.

The DEALERS asked Mac to find away to market a lesser price unit as they did with Stereotech units back in the 70s. Of coarse they turned on Mac when they found out most customers would pay the extra 30% premium for an American built unit and it just confused the market.

This reminds me of how Packard (automobile) sowed the seeds of it's undoing by offering a lower priced car, the Clipper in an attempt to gain market share at the cost of tainting it's luxury car image. Cadillac did it with the Cimarron.
Ref the 4200- Ok, if the 4200 wasn't sacrificed; was the 4275/4280?

 

[CountD]

So is the 4280 a Japanese made receiver?

 

[c_dk]

I just grabbed the 4275 schematic and the board layout, heat sinks used, and circuit topology look like common Japanese oem work from the 80s. This was what we "knew" back in the late 80s. They may have assembled the unit in Binghamton with imported boards. I do not remember and really did not care back in the day. We soon had to deal with all the pending sale rumors and then the actual sale to Clarion and the huge hit it caused in customer confidence.

 

[62caddy]

So is the 4280 a Japanese made receiver?

For $2,995 (in 1990), I would certainly hope not. Although I had heard that the IC boards may have been subcontracted overseas, I cannot say how much of it is Binghamton and how much is not. Hopefully, c_dk can tell us more when he returns to the forum.

 

[62caddy]

I just grabbed the 4275 schematic and the board layout, heat sinks used, and circuit topology look like common Japanese oem work from the 80s. This was what we "knew" back in the late 80s. They may have assembled the unit in Binghamton with imported boards. I do not remember and really did not care back in the day. We soon had to deal with all the pending sale rumors and then the actual sale to Clarion and the huge hit it caused in customer confidence.

Aside of the sinks, did the pre/main amp sections, output stages etc., consist of McIntosh componentry at least? Were the outsourced boards limited to control functions and/or digital tuner operation? From what you can tell, is the 4200 a different animal from the 4275/4280?

 

[c_dk]

The 4100/4200/4300 used the 188/189 TO3 output stage designed to drive 2 ohm loads. This was based on a updated MC2125 circuit (different drivers and no autoformers of coarse). The 4275/80 used tab outputs and only could drive 2 pair of speakers not 3 like the others.

McIntosh obviously was part of the design because PG, 3 band EQ, Sentry monitor etc were all included. DO NOT get me wrong, it is a nice receiver and fit in nicely between the Kyocera 861 and the 4200 at my store, but it did dilute the line. It, like the Stereotech 1200, has always been in limbo.

 

[62caddy]

The 4100/4200/4300 used the 188/189 TO3 output stage designed to drive 2 ohm loads. This was based on a updated MC2125 circuit (different drivers and no autoformers of coarse). The 4275/80 used tab outputs and only could drive 2 pair of speakers not 3 like the others.

McIntosh obviously was part of the design because PG, 3 band EQ, Sentry monitor etc were all included. DO NOT get me wrong, it is a nice receiver and fit in nicely between the Kyocera 861 and the 4200 at my store, but it did dilute the line. It, like the Stereotech 1200, has always been in limbo.

Many thanks for your insights. This is all consistent with pricing if nothing else: I just checked Roger Russell's website and the units were priced as follows: The MAC 4200 last retailed for $2980. (As you had stated in your call w/ Mr Painchaud (hot bread?)); the MAC 4280, $1798; the MAC 4300, $2890. On this alone, common sense would suggest some degree of inferiority of the 4275/4280 compared with their brethren.

 

[CountD]

Thanks for all your input...feedback....pardon the pun(s). After I've had a chance to run my 4280 around the proverbial block, I'll post my impressions for anyone who's interested. It's a bit disappointing that a unit bearing the esteemed McIntosh nameplate should acquire such a dubious reputation. Apparently even McIntosh is not invulnerable to selling it's soul out to bean counters every once in a while. Hopefully the 4275/4280 is a one-time experiment that will not be repeated. Should the 4280 prove disappointing, I'll resume my search for a 4100 which is really what I wanted. The 4100 is legendary and probably one of the finest receivers of all time, imho. Still, I can't seem to figure why reputable dealers in second hand Mc ask significantly more for the later 4200/4275/4280s than for the 4100. One of them even says they're looking to BUY 4280s. Go figure.

I guess at this point, we should hold off judgement to a sound test and initial impressions. I know of some people who think the Stereotech 1200 is much better than the 1900. I actually have a Stereotech I got for a fantastic deal coming in the next week or so, so I will see. Who knows?

The 4280 may sound very good. Since they were only made for three years, and very few ever come up for sale, it might be a very good receiver. I am interested in your impressions. On another note, dealers probably ask so much for it because of its rarity and its looks. It looks very nice and heavy duty with the handles and looks all business. If we really got down to production numbers, I would suspect they sold less than 1,500. It makes it rare and if in good condition, desirable to the right person. I never see them for sale, maybe two a year on that auction site.

 

[c_dk]

The MAC4200 was basically a 4100 with a dgital tuner....and no remote just as everyone started expecting remote control. Therefore it was replaced with the 4300, again 4100 amp and preamp with the Toshiba ladder volume chip and remote switching of inputs.

Have got to ask what does the "hot bread" comment mean?

 

[MX117.MC7150]

The MAC4200 was basically a 4100 with a dgital tuner....and no remote just as everyone started expecting remote control. Therefore it was replaced with the 4300, again 4100 amp and preamp with the Toshiba ladder volume chip and remote switching of inputs.

Have read several times that the MAC4100 is the MA6200 with a tuner inside. If this is true, where did the additional 25wpc come from? Marketing hype?

 

[c_dk]

According to my memory and Berner's the MAC4100 preceded the MA6200 by 3 months. The 4100 had an excellent tuner but when you paired the 6200 with a MR78 or 80 it was extraordinary. So I always thought of it as a 4100 w/o a tuner.

Berner's is the only time I have seen any spec of this output stage,
(752, 754, 4100, 4200, 4300, 6200, 6400, 6450,????) where it was not stated 75 into 8 and 100 into 4. The circuit was stable and did not overheat into 2.4 ohm loads.... 24/7, years on end. I think it was an extraordinary amp circuit.

According to Gordon Gow the 4100 receiver was the mainstay of the successful McIntosh dealers. I have spoken previously of my Binghamton experience with blustering oil patch and big city dealers. I know the 4100 and the systems delivered 4 or 5 times a month based on it, kept our small town dealership consistently in the top echelon of McIntosh dealers

 

[62caddy]

The MAC4200 was basically a 4100 with a dgital tuner....and no remote just as everyone started expecting remote control. Therefore it was replaced with the 4300, again 4100 amp and preamp with the Toshiba ladder volume chip and remote switching of inputs.

Have got to ask what does the "hot bread" comment mean?

In French, pain (pronounced pan) translates as "bread"; chaud (pr. show) tr. as hot/warm. It was one of my feeble attempts at humor. LOL