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Mac vs the Japanese

whoaru99 said:
I read this quite frequently.

Do you mean Mc imparts its own signature to the music music more or less than other brands?
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IMO, there is a McIntosh "sound". Whether that sound is superior, or worse, than well-regarded Japanese gear is up to the preferences of the individual.

I think AK has room for many, many individual tastes and preferences in audio gear. To me that's really the magic of AK - it's an audio democracy not dominated by any one brand or "audio camp". Yeah, I certainly am a "Mac" guy, but I'm always interested in reading about, and experiencing audio delivered by other brands.
 
Having only a passing knowledge of Mc gear, I am really not qualified to comment on whether Mc gear is better or worse than other high-quality options. I think that the poster who mentioned the "97% of the $10,000 unit for $1,000" hit the nail on the head for me. I want high-quality gear, but at some point, I run into a price/performance conundrum...as I do on just about everything in life. I have - at the heart of my system - a well-tweaked Sansui engine...an EW-blessed AU-919 and a Punker X-tweaked TU-919. Now it certainly may be possible that there is a lot of gear (both Mc and otherwise) that is better...however:

1) How much will that "better" cost?

2) Even if I spend that $$$, will I really think that it IS better?

For many Mc loyalists, I am sure that the "pride of ownership" think plays a key role in their enjoyment of the gear (as well as the performance, of course)...and for them, the "utils of value" that they gain from that "pride of ownership" cannot be easily transferred to others that do not share that appreciation for the gear. I collect guitars, and as much as I love the 1956 Gibson Les Paul Goldtop that I paid $26,000 for, I'm not sure that it is a BETTER GUITAR than the roughly $1500 that I have into my tweaked Epiphone Elite (made in Japan) Les Paul. However, when I strap that Goldtop on, the value that I derive from playing it is so much more than just the SWEET tone that comes dripping out of those P-90's...
 
Brian said:
"Straight wire" is actually a voicing.
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Well...that is stretching the definition of voicing, IMHO.

When someone says to me a product is voiced a certain way, IMO, it means the sound has been intentionally altered from the original.

To me, straight wire means no intentional change to the tonality of the original signal.

Perhaps merely symantecs...
 
Cleve said:
IMO, there is a McIntosh "sound". Whether that sound is superior, or worse, than well-regarded Japanese gear is up to the preferences of the individual.
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The question wasn't about personal preference, it was about the basis of Mc signature sound.

Clearly Mc owners are not shy about expressing their preference...that, my friend, is a given. :)
 
whoaru99 said:
The question wasn't about personal preference, it was about the basis of Mc signature sound.

Clearly Mc owners are not shy about expressing their preference...that, my friend, is a given. :)
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No I believe the original question posed at the start of the thread was indeed in regard to the preference of Mac vintage vs Japanese.
 
No, my question to which he responded.

The OP's question was much broader... "how does Mc stack up against the Japanese gear", to paraphrase.
 
I am enjoying seeing everyones opinions in this thread. I have two McIntosh amplifiers here along with Japanese and many others. They are what they are and seem to be, each with its strengths and weaknesses. I feel that those with the least weaknesses; be it reliability, beauty, performance or just the attraction of the product to be the 'best" overall. The two McIntosh amplifiers rank quite high but I am always looking for something 'better'.

I love the way McIntosh and Accuphase amplifiers are made, look and perform. If you are comparing those, it would be a toss up. Each product "name" may not actually represent the entire product line. I am sure each brand has its "dogs" or lesser products. With McIntosh, they are few and far between. I have yet to find a McIntosh "dog" but they could be out there...especially if they were subjected to misuse.

McIntosh compared to Accuphase? That is tough. Mcintosh compared to cheap plastic Japanese receiver? No brainer there.

Most of the vintage Japanese mid fi really need not compare either. McIntosh products are high end. All of them. Not fair comparing a mid fi product with a high end item but I will admit, some of those older Sansui receivers and Yamaha receivers do the job very well.
 
BillR mastering said:
I am enjoying seeing everyones opinions in this thread. I have two McIntosh amplifiers here along with Japanese and many others. They are what they are and seem to be, each with its strengths and weaknesses. I feel that those with the least weaknesses; be it reliability, beauty, performance or just the attraction of the product to be the 'best" overall. The two McIntosh amplifiers rank quite high but I am always looking for something 'better'.

I love the way McIntosh and Accuphase amplifiers are made, look and perform. If you are comparing those, it would be a toss up. Each product "name" may not actually represent the entire product line. I am sure each brand has its "dogs" or lesser products. With McIntosh, they are few and far between. I have yet to find a McIntosh "dog" but they could be out there...especially if they were subjected to misuse.

McIntosh compared to Accuphase? That is tough. Mcintosh compared to cheap plastic Japanese receiver? No brainer there.

Most of the vintage Japanese mid fi really need not compare either. McIntosh products are high end. All of them. Not fair comparing a mid fi product with a high end item but I will admit, some of those older Sansui receivers and Yamaha receivers do the job very well.
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I originally back in the 70's listened to both....the Accuphase was less colored to me......I'm glad I chose the Accuphase.....after recapping the original Elna gray caps with Nichicon...Black Gates....better....so even though it is no longer original....it doesn't matter to me....the design is Accuphase.

It would not even attempt to recap a Mac....I think that they used Goodalls or maybe Spragues.......I think that is the signature difference right there in a nutshell.......hard to get your hands around that concept but I find it really plausible.

Also there is with out a doubt the percieved quality look and feel of the MAC....but I find the build quality of a Accuphase....better.
 
The build quality and circuitry design of Accuphase gear absolutely amazes me especially the late 80s and 90s models! When you open them up your jaw just drops in awe! I have never seen such spectacles of engineering excellence and build quality except the Yamaha Centennial models like MarkB has. Amazingly, what Yamaha did on a one time basis to celebrate 100 years as a company Accuphase has done on an ever evolving and improving basis for over 30 years! In other words what other companies tout as statement pieces is the every day quality level of Accuphase. How my current Accuphase system sounds is the best quality sound I have ever heard and it has been a revelation to me just what true high end audio is all about. There are simply no compromises in any way and the quality is completely in a whole new category that I feel priveledged to be able to enjoy. Having said that, I am sure that the way I feel about my Accuphase gear is exactly how McIntosh owners feel about theirs. :yes:
 
In a subjective comparison on a set of L-710 ADS speakers between the Accuphase P-300 and the McIntosh MC2105, it may be hard to believe but the McIntosh sounded like the midrange was "tilted up" toward the pain side of things. It could be the speakers, the pre (Large scale mixing console using single ended outputs) but the end result is the Accuphase sounded better in that comparison. Very even, level and tight. Really nice!

The McIntosh may even need a service call. The McIntoshes don't get used regularly. Neither did the Accuphase at that point. A fair test we thought.

Both amps, equally "old".

We did this about a month ago and I have my notes as per consensus among the listeners, myself included.
 
TejasRichard said:
was sitting here reading, and found myself wondering how mcintosh ss compared to similar vintage ss from the more familiar names. .... , how does vintage mac stack up against yammie, marantz, pioneer et al. any takers?
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Well, its question of personal taste and finances, and not sound quality. There is no secret or really advanced technology in 30+ transistor or 3+ chip devices, so term hi-end or whatever has certain marketing and social status meaning and carries no technical value whatsoever. McIntosh is certainly not a piece of a plastic crap, but $6500 for CD player is an overkill, It barely costs $200 of parts and labor, like all other devices of its kind its made of industry standard components. On the other hand, McIntosh cost price will not inflate like other Macintosh shown below.
 
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linuxguru, i'm guessing that you're in the "all amps of a particular quality point sound the same" camp? not being derisive in any way, just wodering what philosophy you're comin from.
 
As I said earlier Accuphase is 1st rate and the McIntosh of Japan. The 2105 tilting the midrange sounds quite odd. Probably in need of some TLC. I've been sing a 2105 that had been completely gone through by the Mc dealer just before I bought it and it nor others that I know were in spec exhibited that. The only ADS speakers I have are the L-300 and the one time I tied the combo, a rather odd matchup, they showed that ADS could probably make love to the 2105.
 
Only thing I don't like about Macs... owners tend to be a too snobbish.... Nothing personal guys... but it tends to go beyond owner loyalty and more like an elite Golf club mentality.....

I mean I have been called cheap by Mac owners because I like Marantz... When most of those Elitist have no clue what a 10b tuner or a Model 500 is like.... I don't want to come off elitist either....but nothing stops me from buying Mac, other then I love my Marantz.....

With that said.... As an EE, I would love to look at Mac nudes and schematics..... But they never seem to pop up in threads... Maybe I would develop a need for a Mac if I could look up the "skirt" of one or two or three..... :)

Come on break down those elitist barriers , show us your Mac Nudes......

jk
 
LinuxGuru said:
There is no secret or really advanced technology in 30+ transistor or 3+ chip devices, so term hi-end or whatever... carries no technical value whatsoever.
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:sigh: OK then what do YOU listen to? Which manufacturer of those 30+ transistors and 3+ schip devices do you prefer?
 
jstang said:
Only thing I don't like about Macs... owners tend to be a too snobbish.... Nothing personal guys... but it tends to go beyond owner loyalty and more like an elite Golf club mentality.....

jk
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Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of cult-like following and I had previously refrained on better judgment. But, since someone else brought it up and I've had a couple beers... ;)
 
whoaru99 said:
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of cult-like following but I had previously refrained on better judgment. But, since someone else brought it up and I've had a couple beers... ;)
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I am ok if u are country club or cult-like....that's cool....whatever gives you a kick, I am fine with... BUT SHOW ME THE MAC NUDES, SHOW ME THE MAC NUDES.......what no screw driver?

( as you can tell....I lack better judgment.....hehehehehe :D )


SHOW ME THE MAC NUDES, SHOW ME THE MAC NUDES

jk
 
Brian said:
As I said earlier Accuphase is 1st rate and the McIntosh of Japan. The 2105 tilting the midrange sounds quite odd. Probably in need of some TLC. I've been sing a 2105 that had been completely gone through by the Mc dealer just before I bought it and it nor others that I know were in spec exhibited that. The only ADS speakers I have are the L-300 and the one time I tied the combo, a rather odd matchup, they showed that ADS could probably make love to the 2105.
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Indeed, we all found it quite odd. When I compared (back in the old days) the same amplifier with a Sansui 5050 receiver (which btw, is not a bad sounding unit by any means) and to be fair, I ran from open reel source, both through a dedicated preamplifier (the Sansui, from the preamp used aux in) the consensus then was the McIntosh was not only much more robust but much more effortless in the dynamics, at lower levels and had that certain completeness, from top to bottom, lacking in the Sansui. This was when both units were almost new and connected to Klipschorns at the time.

I remember most, the sonic signature from that experience in contrast and was rather taken aback when compared to the Accuphase. Perhaps the McIntosh needed to be used--warning, speculatory at best-- for a few weeks to "re-settle in" if you believe in that type thing. I certainly do as capacitors do "reform" after being idle for years or sometimes even months. With this in mind, the comparison may not have been "that" fair, after all.

I also have an McI 2100 here that I could test. It is essentially the same amp.
 
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