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Matching Ohm F's with Sansui AU-919...will this be a problem??

Ohighway said:
Poor guy.... sound's like you're really suffering there.....:tears:

NOT !! :thmbsp:

How are those D's ? I've always been curious. I listen to my C's on a semi regular basis... they're pretty nice. Need a woofer refoam soon though.
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At the risk of wrath by swaying off topic a bit, they absolutely rock. I've never heard any other version than the D's having bought them the first time I saw them in 1978. Get this.. I had my LaScalas AND my D's as well as a boatload of other goodies (receiver, dbx, RTR, TT.....) all stuffed inside my dorm room. :music:
 
Holst:

There is a great article on 6moons.com where John Potis visits Bill LeGall at Millersound...in the article, John talks about the work that Bill did on the sagging voice coil and driver of his Ohm A's...it sounds like the reason why the inital Walsh designs needed so much power is the the voice coil sagged so badly that it was virtually outside the magnetic field, and you needed a ton of juice to get the coil centered back within the gap...Bill has a mod with the spider that centers the coil within the magnetic gap, thereby allowing the driver to be pushed with far less power. He told me that he drives his A's with a run-of-the-mill 100wpc Kenwood amp he bought for $199 at 6th Avenue Electronics about 10 years ago...so I think I'll be OK with the EW re-built 919 for the F's (again, the seller told me that he pushed these speakers just fine with a 50wpc SS amp)...

My biggest concerns were 1) would the impedence mismatch be a problem (EW says no) and 2) would this DC (direct coupling) thing that I read about in some "EBay Guides" article blow the drivers (again, the answer is no).

I think I'll take the chance that these rebuilt drivers will be just fine with the 919...in a worst-case scenario, I'll find somebody else who will want these speakers...but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I lucked out and found my "holy grail"...
 
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bebopdeluxe said:
Thanks, guys...I won't be DJ'ing any frat parties any time soon...I would think at the level that I will be listening to my stereo, the 919 should be able to handle the load without getting fried...it is hard to imagine shaking the walls listening to Brad Mehldau or Miles Davis...just have to keep the Cheap Trick in line...
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Bitches Brew should be played at a wall rattling volume, especially Miles Runs The Voodoo Down.:banana:
 
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Ausjoe said:
I guess you've been to their site but in case you missed this:

"We continued to make new Ohm F drivers for service replacement for many years thereafter (we've never seen a ''repaired Ohm F'' that performed like a new one because none were good enough to put our name on them)."

http://ohmspeakers.com/store_item_detail.cfm?item_ID=38&cart_ID=416117506362
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I read that. Honestly, it's been decades since I heard a new set of F's, so I can't compair them. But a well rebuilt set of F's sound great. YMMV
 
botrytis:

I understand that - due to the inherent design issues with the F - the original speakers where inefficient and needed gobs of power...what has me excited about THESE speakers is that it sounds like Bill LeGall has identified the issue related to the inefficiency of the design (i.e. the voice coil from the driver not being optimally placed within the magnetic field) and his spider modification places the voice coil in an optimal position - thus allowing the speakers to be more efficient and driven with less power.

Is that a bunch of hooey?

I'll find out tonight.
 
It does sound like it could be hooey, since this speaker will almost certainly use an overhung voice coil that allows for a bunch of cone travel while keeping a given percentage of the VC in the magnetic gap, unlike very expensive and efficient units that keep the entire coil in the MG under all normal operating conditions. If the Walsh does use an underhung coil, then precise positioning would be essential and almost impossible to maintain with conventional spiders and foam surrounds, especially since this cone is down-firing.

I hope they sound good, though, and most importantly, that you like them.
 
eurasian:

That is why Bill LeGall's rep (at places like Speaker Asylum and others) is so important here. There are too many examples of knowledgable, passionate audiophiles who sing his praises to dismiss him as a guy who is selling snake oil. His explanation of the problem shows that he understand the issues in a way that some down-the-street speaker refoamer probably does not, and his experience with very-high-end gear (incluing his own Ohm A's, which are picktured on his web site and discussed in articles about his work) would suggest that his proprietary solution probably has some aspect of quality attached to it.

I will make sure to let everybody know what I hear this weekend.
 
I Googled Bill and he certainly seems to be a knowledgeable and professional guy. As an Acoustat owner, I was very interested in his modified 1+1's -- he seems to have addressed all of the weak points of these otherwise excellent electrostatics. I think I will give him a call.
 
I googled him. I read......

The way 6moons wrote it up, it sounds like the same thing others have noted.

When rebuilding the F's, you need to replace the spyders.

When I got mine ( the first owner pushed them with a pair of BGW's running as 400 mono blocks) the spyders were real droopy. It's not really a revolutionary redesign. When I got my drivers back from Speaker Exchange the only thing original were the cones and magnets. The rest is shot after this long.

BeBop, I share your optimism.
 
Holst:

One other thing - Bill said that he only does 1-2 Ohm driver rebuilds a year...for him the key to keeping his prices so reasonable is VOLUME...so he needs to service a lot of speakers to keep the biz going...and he said that the repair of Ohm drivers is pretty labor-intensive stuff.
 
botrytis:

Bill told me that all he did was refoam the drivers and rework the spiders so that the voice coils (which he said were hanging 2/3rds of he way outside of the magnetic gap) now sit in their proper place within the gap. Nothing to the cones, magnets or anything else.

I guess that - based on the strictest definition of things - the driver is not the same...will properly centering the voice coil (which should reduce the amount of power needed to drive the speakers) change the essence of the Ohm F's magic? I guess it could...but it does not seem to change the essence of Lincoln Walsh's concept...a single full-range driver that covers the entire spectrum...360" dispersion...no crossovers...the unique aluminum/paper cone...

We'll see tonight.
 
botrytis:

While I like John Strobeen and the folks at Ohm, and I am the proud owner of a pair of Walsh "Super 2's", and I respect the fact that they support there old products as well as anybody, I also recognize that the current design is not what Lincoln Walsh had in mind...and if I want the original Walsh design, this is probably about as good a way to get there as any - getting a pair of F's that had their drivers restored by a respected technician (who owns a pair of Ohm A's himself)...even if does not produce 100% of the sound of an original F, I am not paying 100% of the price, either...

;-)

Keeping my fingers crossed...
 
Is this really a modification?

When I got my F's the voice coils were hanging low due to sagging spiders.
picture.php

It's not the best picture, but when I got them I didn't feel like I should dwell on their flaws. I was told by a number of people that the spiders would be too sagy, and hense the voice coils too low.


Here are pictures taken 3 minutes ago.
29664958.jpg

6bcf8a75.jpg


Voice coils much higher, the way they were 31 years ago.
 
Ausjoe said:
I guess you've been to their site but in case you missed this:

"We continued to make new Ohm F drivers for service replacement for many years thereafter (we've never seen a ''repaired Ohm F'' that performed like a new one because none were good enough to put our name on them)."

http://ohmspeakers.com/store_item_detail.cfm?item_ID=38&cart_ID=416117506362
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My question is, Why do they offer such a big credit on the original drivers when you trade them in for the "update"? The update, btw is the new setup, conventional woofer with dome tweeter, basically Walsh 4's.
 
botrytis said:
]We have never successfully repaired an Ohm F that was failing this way (the cone gets modified when you remove the old material and no longer sounds the same).[/B] For years, we replaced the old drivers with new ones." If anyone would know - Ohm would.
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Ohm's position on this may be self serving---they'd rather sell you a new driver or better yet a new speaker.

I also find it hard to believe, I mean really hard to believe that the old drivers can't be repaired. Where there's a will there's a way as the saying goes. Maybe Ohm lacks the will.
 
bebopdeluxe said:
I also recognize that the current design is not what Lincoln Walsh had in mind...and if I want the original Walsh design, this is probably about as good a way to get there as any - getting a pair of F's that had their drivers restored by a respected technician
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Bingo!
 
Tom Brennan said:
Ohm's position on this may be self serving---they'd rather sell you a new driver or better yet a new speaker.

I also find it hard to believe, I mean really hard to believe that the old drivers can't be repaired. Where there's a will there's a way as the saying goes. Maybe Ohm lacks the will.
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And a third Bingo ! Just substitute "may be" with "is".
 
So...I go to listen to the F's...they look and sound fabulous! The seller rated them a 7 on A'gon...more like an 8.5 to me...I take them apart...get them home...go to put them together...and I find out that one of the speaker wire contact screws (the ones that sit on one of the metal cone supports...connecting the driver assembly on top with the base) must have gotten bumped in transit, and the screw snapped right at the base...there is now virtually no part of the screw against the base, and I cannot attach the plug from the lower base into the driver assembly...

Aarrgghh!

(I call this tune-us interruptus)

I have no solder or iron to reattach the broken screw...it snapped right where the hole goes through the screw to slip the speaker wire through the screw (you would then screw down the outer plastic ring over the hole)...and there is virtually no thread on the connection to the cone support to bypass the broken part of the screw...

So...at 2AM...I am "screwed"...

I desperately want to listen to these speakers (I have waited a long time for this), but I can't. And I don't want to do some kind of slapped-azz thing to allow me to attach the wire - that might just make things worse down the road. I may try to solder the broken screw together...or I may have to call Bill LeGall to fix the damn thing.

Rats.

P.S. At the seller's house, I was listening to a CD of Michael Brecker's "Pilgrimage"...he was driving the F's with a 50 watt SS amp...he only had his amp about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way up...and the speakers sounded great. The 919 will have ZERO problem pushing these babies.
 
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