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Matching turntables with cartridges

Extremesam

Extremesam

Active Member
Opinions please. If I have an entry level table AT-LP120X, Is it worth spending the money on a really expensive cartridge? How much of an improvement can be made? I plan on staying with the LP120 and I'just want to give it the best cartridge possible. Thoughts please. ......Sam
 
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Sam...
Check your turntable's documentation to see what the tonearm can handle. You should be able to find the specs at Vinyl Nirvana.
Then you need to see what your phono stage can handle (moving coil/moving magnet/moving iron).

You have to do that first to narrow your choices.
 
heyraz said:
Sam...
Check your turntable's documentation to see what the tonearm can handle. You should be able to find the specs at Vinyl Nirvana.
Then you need to see what your phono stage can handle (moving coil/moving magnet/moving iron).

You have to do that first to narrow your choices.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reply. The Schiit Mani will handle any cart. I will check out Vinyl Nirvana about the tonearm.
 
I am a firm believer in "over-cartridging" turntables, and that moderately expensive direct drive turntables are a great way to spin vinyl.

What's your idea of an expensive cartridge?
 
In the very affordable category, replacing just the stylus with the LP Gear CFN3600 will be a considerable upgrade for less than $50 and about one minute installation time.

Of course, there are much nicer options at just about any price point you can imagine. I probably wouldn't go too far over $300 or so for a new cartridge for the LP120. At that point, I'd be considering a new table. Of course, you could always upgrade the cart now and if you decide to get a different table on down the road, you could move the upgrade cartridge to the new table.
 
Aren't those delivered with the AT VM95e cartridge? If so an easy and good upgrade would be changing the stylus to a ML or SH version. No alignment or mounting needed, just pop the new needle in and enjoy!
 
T68 said:
Aren't those delivered with the AT VM95e cartridge? If so an easy and good upgrade would be changing the stylus to a ML or SH version. No alignment or mounting needed, just pop the new needle in and enjoy!
Click to expand...

Oops. My bad. My knowledge is dated. I thought they still came with a Conical 3600/5625.
 
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As always, if you're going to spend a lot of money on a cartridge, you need to indicate what kind of sound you're after, as well as maximum budget. I would perhaps not want to exceed the cost of the turntable itself, or is that just me? Also, confirm that your current cartridge is the AT-VM95E (or older AT95E?) and think about where you want the sound to go from there. If you have the AT-VM95E, a simple stylus upgrade may satisfy your cravings.
 
Sorry if this is a little rambling and disjointed, I'm coming off a med that's somewhat affecting my thought process so bear with me if ya can:

For what it's worth, my experience has been that the cart makes a far bigger difference than the TT. In fact, my general experience is that as you move up with TT's, what you're primarily gaining is more adjustment points and therefore potentially better sound quality, but it takes a lot more setup work and tools to get there.

I'm probably simplifying things, but my philosophy has been there's probably 5 or 6 steps that get you 98.7% (a highly scientific number I arrived at after DECADES of careful study ) of the way to an excellent setup, and then about 100 more to get to the last 1.3% of "perfection". I'm ok with stopping at 98.7%.

On quality low end TT's (Yamaha, Luxman, Pioneer, etc) without adjustment beyond overhang and cartridge alignment, I've found that typically the only "out of spec" setting is SRA/VTA due to a non-height adjustable tonearm (you can probably get close with washers/shims). The rest can usually be dialed in and is frankly often easier on cheaper TT's with less points of adjustment to worry about.


Crab33 said:
confirm that your current cartridge is the AT-VM95E (or older AT95E?) and think about where you want the sound to go from there. If you have the AT-VM95E, a simple stylus upgrade may satisfy your cravings.
Click to expand...

If it is the VM95 you've got 7? stylus to choose from, including a micro line and shibata I believe. The VM stylus fit all VM series carts, so while you could upgrade a 530, 540, etc. I think you'll get 95% of the benefit of an upgraded cart going with a higher end stylus and, maybe even more importantly, doing a careful (doesn't have to be molecular nerdery level in my opinion) setup of the cart/stylus.

If you're after an entirely different listening experience it's not a bad idea to invest in a second cart to figure out what you like. I used to sell high end bicycles and I always encouraged people to try as many as they could because they all feel different (despite being basically the same) and you often know right away when you've found "the one".

Hope there's something helpful in here for ya, sorry if I went a little long and OT.
 
You might keep in mind that many vinyl "experts" have been known to say that a TOTL turntable/arm with a decent entry-level cartridge will produce a better sound than a decent entry-level tt with a TOTL cartridge does.

Just something else to investigate :dunno:
 
Panamafred said:
Define really expensive?

I think there are definitely improvements to be made over the stock cartridge!
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reply. I have upgraded to an AT moving coil cart but it sounded "thin".
Tried the Shibata stylus and didn't notice a difference either except for excessive dust collection. I'm still keeping an open mind and will try others.
 
cratz2 said:
In the very affordable category, replacing just the stylus with the LP Gear CFN3600 will be a considerable upgrade for less than $50 and about one minute installation time.

Of course, there are much nicer options at just about any price point you can imagine. I probably wouldn't go too far over $300 or so for a new cartridge for the LP120. At that point, I'd be considering a new table. Of course, you could always upgrade the cart now and if you decide to get a different table on down the road, you could move the upgrade cartridge to the new table.
Click to expand...
Makes good sense. Thank you.
 
vinyldavid said:
I am a firm believer in "over-cartridging" turntables, and that moderately expensive direct drive turntables are a great way to spin vinyl.

What's your idea of an expensive cartridge?
Click to expand...
Expensive for me is over $300. I would probably go to about $500. Anything higher would just be good to know the option. I need to keep the table because of it's 78 rpm
capabilities.
 
Extremesam said:
Expensive for me is over $300. I would probably go to about $500. Anything higher would just be good to know the option. I need to keep the table because of it's 78 rpm
capabilities.
Click to expand...

78rpm is a handy capability to have. I have been auditioning various 78rpm solutions for some time now. Still no consensus from this camp. The solution I really think I'd want doesn't exist :)

In the $300-$500 range, I would recommend a a Denon DL-301mkII, which comes in at $450, a low output moving coil. You'd need to buy another headshell to swap between it and your 78rpm cartrdige/stylus easily. Checking with cartridge_retipping-5 on eBay or Grooveticker on Instagram (same fine gentleman) to see if he has any retipped cartridges for sale could help further along your upgrade path. He's got a Denon DL-103S (very different than a stock 103!), DL-301, an AudioQuest AQ-404, and regularly has other things up for very reasonable prices, all with new diamonds installed.

My recommended option if you'd like to stick to moving magnet would be the Audio Technica VM750SH. I've heard a bunch of the Ortofon 2M series, which is quite popular, and haven't been too impressed with any of them. I haven't heard the Black, which is supposed to be head and shoulders above the rest, but is also out of your price range. Grados at any price point are right out, for me. I've heard them from $100-$1500, and wasn't too thrilled with any of them.
 
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I agree with the above that better cartridges usually improve sound, within limits. I found moving up the chain for cartridges improves sound IF the higher priced cartridges have compliance compatible with mass of the tonearm.

For example, on my KD550 (a fairly respectable vintage table), I actually had to drop down to a lower compliance cartridge in the middle of the vintage Ortofon VMS line up because the higher level cartridge did not match compliance well and sound actually suffered.

Tonearm/cartridge synergy/compatibility must be factored in to the process of moving up the cartridge food chain.
 
cgutz said:
Tonearm/cartridge synergy/compatibility must be factored in to the process of moving up the cartridge food chain.
Click to expand...

My experience validates the matching of compliance with the tonearm mass has a significant effect. Too great a mismatch, and no matter how high a $ cart you install, you will be disappointed.
 
Extremesam said:
Thank you for the reply. I have upgraded to an AT moving coil cart but it sounded "thin".
Tried the Shibata stylus and didn't notice a difference either except for excessive dust collection. I'm still keeping an open mind and will try others.
Click to expand...

Do you have an MC phono pre-amp or MC option on your receiver? What cartridge is stock or currently on your turntable?
 
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