MC-2002 and it's mine, all mine!

[Catswold]

AHAHAHAHA!!! (maniacal laughter) I've got a Mac! I've got a Mac! YIPPEE!!!
I'm HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY

So anyway, I managed to score a pristine McIntosh MC-2002 for a reasonable price and it arrived today. I've set it up now and have been listening to it for a couple of hours. It replaces my Pioneer A-88X in diving my B & W Matrix 1 speakers. Source is my computer full of high-res phonograph rips through an Audioquest Dragonfly Red.

Not a huge difference between the two. Perhaps a bit more body and detail than the Pioneer, but I am gratified to see the A-88X holds up so well. I guess Pioneer knew what they were doing with the Elite series.

I've wanted the B & W/McIntosh pairing for a long time. Now that I'm retired, I can finally indulge my dream.

Did I mention I GOT A MAC!!!

 

[eiraved]

You do know this purchase has ignited the McIntitis virus in your system, where you can't seem to stop wanting more McIntosh gear!
Great purchase, congrats and welcome to the club!

 

[Catswold]

LOL!!! Yeah, I'm waiting on a C-39 (2nd gen) that needs a new glass, that I picked up for a song. Don't really need it with the setup I have, but it will be nice to have the ability to add a tuner or something.

Besides...PRETTY LIGHTS.

 

[Catswold]

RIGHT! Now I stand corrected. I am hearing things I've never heard before. Listening to Gregg Allman Laid Back...dang if there isn't some music in that guitar strumming in the background of These Days. Man those guitar strings ring out...I know it sounds cliched, but I really am flabbergasted.

Either I haven't been listening as closely before, or here really is a tremendous improvement in detail and musicality. WOW!!!

 

[jlovda]

LOL!!! Yeah, I'm waiting on a C-39 (2nd gen) that needs a new glass, that I picked up for a song. Don't really need it with the setup I have, but it will be nice to have the ability to add a tuner or something.

Besides...PRETTY LIGHTS.

You can't add a tuner module to a C39. That's what an MX130 is; a C39 with a tuner.

 

[Catswold]

You can't add a tuner module to a C39. That's what an MX130 is; a C39 with a tuner.

LOL!!! No, but I can plug a tuner separate into the C-39. Right now it's between my Pioneer F-99X and my Pioneer TX-9500 II. Both are well rated at the Tuner Information Center. A Mac tuner can come later...an MR-78 or maybe one of the newer ones, like the MR-85.

 

[Grenadeslio]

I miss my MC 2002, my Infinitys never sounded better.

 

[damacman]

The MC2002 is an oddity in the world of McIntosh. Here are a few things that make it such:

- First direct coupled metered Mc power amplifier
- Only Mc power amp with a BIG RED lighted power button
- First Mc power amp with a flat meter scale
- Meter illumination seems to be more green than blue
- No front panel controls of any kind other than the power switch

I've had two or three over the years and enjoyed my time with each. Given its age, you may consider having it bench tested to ensure it meets spec.

Oh - congratulations and welcome to the world of McIntosh!

 

[kevzep]

What he said ^^^^^^^........
You're in the McIntosh worm hole now, there's no stopping it......
Congrats, and enjoy, you are having similar experiences to me when I got my first Mc, hearing things you've never heard before....

 

[Catswold]

What he said ^^^^^^^........
You're in the McIntosh worm hole now, there's no stopping it......
Congrats, and enjoy, you are having similar experiences to me when I got my first Mc, hearing things you've never heard before....

Yeah, this is really bizarre. I've heard about this sort of clarity, about being able to pick out each instrument and though I never questioned it, I guess I never really understood what they were describing. The music just resolves itself into separate instruments instead of a muddle of music. I don't have to listen for it, it's just there for the hearing.

Every album, every cut is a revelation...I'm simply incredulous at what I'm experiencing, wondering it I'm really hearing a difference or just noticing what has always been there, but the truth is, it's real.

Maybe I need to upgrade my DAC now, although this Dragonfly certainly lives up to it's reputation.

Oh well, it's only money.

 

[techguy0192]

I owned an MC2002 for a while. The only real complaint I has was the red illuminated power button. Otherwise, it's a good amp. It's an affordable way for a person to get a Mac with meters.

As suggested, I would have it bench tested to ensure everything is up to spec.

 

[Catswold]

I am loving this and I don't mind the big red power button, because the C-39 digital readout is a red led display that matches.

LOL!!! I didn't understand about the Loudness control. it's a knob and "0 boost" is fully to the left, not center position as one might be led to think, so after I finally got the unit in, I was really taken aback by what I heard...dark, heavy, sound...I was really concerned. Later I read the manual and discovered my error and realized I was hearing about 50% boost from the loudness control.

It's all good.

 

[twiiii]

MC 2002 doesn't have autoformers which can be a plus for speakers needing the extra damping factor. They are smooth sounding with a little drier tighter bass with some speakers. We sold quite a few of them.. Some of the sales man tried to sell them in place of MC 2200 for discos, but they didn't survive as well. If you are going to push them hard make sure to add some external cooling. It will really extend the life of the units. They worked great with stacked pairs of ML-1's . I thought they sounded great with ML-2c. They were great amps for bi-amping Concert Grands. They worked well with larger AR speakers. Alec Model 19 sound very smooth and tight with 2002 amps. They could make a pair of 800 Patricians stand up and bark nd move some walls with the 30" woofers. People had to be careful in the middle 70's 200 watts across 8 ohms was a lot of power for most speaker systems. All the power switches failed after a period of time. So if you can buy a power strip that can be triggered by the pre-amp to turn off and on the 2002. If you are driving speakers where the impedance drops below 3 ohms over a broad range a MC 7200 is a better choice. But remember external cooling will help handling of loads with low ratings.

 

[deprecated]

@twiiii

Thanks for the good firsthand info. I have two 2002s, passed down to me by an older McHead who upgraded another system and wanted them to go to a good home... where they will be treasured and never hawked.

I bought new glass for them about a year ago (Audio Classics) but haven't replaced them yet. Both were playing perfectly, albeit in a "strange" setup:

A glitchy MX123 (at boot, sometimes no audio output until I reset the MCU and restore my config from the now-permanently-installed USB stick) with Y-cables, driving the pair of MC2002s in stereo mode, ML-1C on stands and ML-10C on a felt pad on top of the ML-1Cs. Being from a younger generation, I had never heard stacked ML-1s, so I wanted to test if this was even feasible. I love it.

That is, until one of the 2002s bit the dust. It blows fuses immediately on turn-on. I inspected the driver boards and the intermediary boards, but can't find anything immediately suspect. There's significant dry rot from the foam surrounding the meter gels, and I have a suspicion it worked itself into a problematic spot. I bought all the parts to recap them, start to finish (including the main storage caps), as well as a handful of other failure-prone parts, so here's hoping I can bring the second one back to life. Fortunately it's a really good design... simple boards with all discrete through-hole components (minus the 8-pin IC which I think is the driver for meter control), simple topology, properly laid out as is to be expected with Mc gear.

It's a testament to Mc build quality though... that they're 40 years old and both were still playing. Both power switches still work perfectly, and my only real gripe is the narrow chassis and screw terminals, both of which can be solved with ease.

In your experience with 2002s, did you ever have to repair any that would blow fuses on turn-on? Shot in the dark, but I'm just collating data. Thanks for any insight you may be able to provide.

 

[jcidave]

@twiiii

Thanks for the good firsthand info. I have two 2002s, passed down to me by an older McHead who upgraded another system and wanted them to go to a good home... where they will be treasured and never hawked.

I bought new glass for them about a year ago (Audio Classics) but haven't replaced them yet. Both were playing perfectly, albeit in a "strange" setup:
Ma
A glitchy MX123 (at boot, sometimes no audio output until I reset the MCU and restore my config from the now-permanently-installed USB stick) with Y-cables, driving the pair of MC2002s in stereo mode, ML-1C on stands and ML-10C on a felt pad on top of the ML-1Cs. Being from a younger generation, I had never heard stacked ML-1s, so I wanted to test if this was even feasible. I love it.

That is, until one of the 2002s bit the dust. It blows fuses immediately on turn-on. I inspected the driver boards and the intermediary boards, but can't find anything immediately suspect. There's significant dry rot from the foam surrounding the meter gels, and I have a suspicion it worked itself into a problematic spot. I bought all the parts to recap them, start to finish (including the main storage caps), as well as a handful of other failure-prone parts, so here's hoping I can bring the second one back to life. Fortunately it's a really good design... simple boards with all discrete through-hole components (minus the 8-pin IC which I think is the driver for meter control), simple topology, properly laid out as is to be expected with Mc gear.

It's a testament to Mc build quality though... that they're 40 years old and both were still playing. Both power switches still work perfectly, and my only real gripe is the narrow chassis and screw terminals, both of which can be solved with ease.

In your experience with 2002s, did you ever have to repair any that would blow fuses on turn-on? Shot in the dark, but I'm just collating data. Thanks for any insight you may be able to provide.

Glad you enjoy your 2002's. Maybe you've noticed that the last post on this thread was over 5 years ago. If you are going to attempt your own repair, more power to you. When one of my 3 2002's had a power guard circuit problem, my local tech was able to fix it up. The 3 are working fine and I have no plan to replace them. I do cross my fingers every time I turn the rig on. All the gear is old. Good luck with your repair.

 

[w3jn]

Immediate blowing of the fuse points to DC on the speaker lines which is tripping the crowbar circuit. If the crowbar circuit detects appreciable DC on the speaker lines, it triggers the SCR which shorts across the power transformer secondary, thus blowing the fuse.

I would suspect you have shorted outputs, bad drivers, bad bias, bad differential pair, or some combination of the above. Easy enough to check the transistors... the .5 ohm emitter resistors might have blown also.

 

[deprecated]

@w3jn

Excellent info, thank you. I've got full recap kits with transistors and etc. on the way. I'll check everything mentioned. The plan is to just go through it all and replace as much as I can, fixing up solder joints and running everything through the ultrasonic. Familiarizing myself with the schematic now, getting the "lay of the land".

I appreciate your insight, very valuable. I'm no stranger to reviving dead equipment, so far I just haven't had any that blew fuses immediately. Couple 7200s, C37, 2505, and a heap of Meridian gear.

I will report back with my findings, one way or another. Again, thank you for taking the time to reply. Have a great one!

 

[SaturationPt]

Be careful with cheap ebay “recap kits”. For one, there are plenty of hacks out there (hifiaudio comes to mind) who will put together whatever is cheap and easy, the other problem is that McIntosh made changes during manufacturing runs of most equipment and you will need the correct schematic and the skills to understand it.

Finally, don’t replace parts until you have found the problem, it only makes the diagnosis more difficult.

 

[w3jn]

Be careful with cheap ebay “recap kits”. For one, there are plenty of hacks out there (hifiaudio comes to mind) who will put together whatever is cheap and easy, the other problem is that McIntosh made changes during manufacturing runs of most equipment and you will need the correct schematic and the skills to understand it.

Finally, don’t replace parts until you have found the problem, it only makes the diagnosis more difficult.

Quoted for Truth.

Capacitors are not the root of all audio evil. McIntosh used very good quality parts, capacitors included. Not that you won't find a bad one here and there, but don't count on a recap fixing anything on this amp.

It's ALWAYS best to find and fix the problem then update as necessary (or not). Using substandard parts might actually set you back as opposed to just keeping the good quality parts that Mac used.

 

[deprecated]

For one, there are plenty of hacks out there (hifiaudio comes to mind)

I probably should've checked here before ordering, because that's exactly who the kits are from. Most of the caps on my 2002s are Nichicon, and supposedly these kits are supposed to be Nichicon/Illinois Capacitor (and probably generic NPN/PNP transistors).


Perhaps I should just file a claim immediately and get my money back. It wasn't cheap, but I thought it was at least worth a shot if it was true to the description, given the feedback score. They haven't arrived yet, so maybe I'll wait to make a decision after inspecting the kits. Unfortunately, I'm no stranger to crap parts being pawned off as good stuff. Is that seller dishonest all around, or is it just a crapshoot? I typically use Panasonic FM golds (and similar) in reworks, but my reasoning here was that it was a "curated kit". Too trusting, I suppose.

In other news, "I fixed" the MC2002 that was eating fuses like candy. There was a deposit on the back of the junction board (where the main, large storage caps are). I cleaned it off with a spudger and a wood pick, looks like remnants of the foam tape around the blue meter acrylic on the front glass, mixed with what I'm going to call "environmental adhesive"... basically crud it collected over the decades, gluing that disintegrating foam down in a blob.

The output terminal block also looked suspect. I've got a feeling one (or more) of the tabs were shorting out against the chassis since it's such a narrow opening and even a tiny amount of over torquing the screws makes them bend and/or wiggle about. Modeled up a new terminal block in SOLIDWORKS with bananas out, thought I'd mill it out of some acetal laying around the shop. I know that might be sacrilege, but I just don't trust the originals now.

Lastly there was a mildly toasted resistor on the right channel PCB, I replaced it one from my vintage stores.

Amp is still in pieces, but it starts up and works like a champ.

I've got new glass from Audio Classics, a roll of color matched acetate, some adhesive-backed foam strip from my parts bin (I think I used it on the 7200 I reworked) and some new incandescent bulbs. Going to do an LED retrofit soon, but all the "cheap" kits out there use those goofy spade-type LED abominations that aren't meant for AC... they'll "work", but they flicker like crazy. My better half can't see the flicker, but I can and it drives me nuts, so I'm going to build a power supply for the meter lamp boards... just rectify it down, linear regulator and a smoothing cap out to the LEDs. Can anyone see a problem with that proposed power supply?

@w3jn @SaturationPt Thanks guys, I really appreciate your help.