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MC 30 and MC 225?

Dr Morbius

Dr Morbius

Well-Known Member
Hi, I have HH Scott tube amps which I’m selling to get into a McIntosh amp, and since my speakers have 105db sensitivity. So I’m looking at the MC 30 or the MC 225 both which have plenty of power. I’m wondering what are the differences between them in regards to the sound, an example of what I’m looking for is which would have more clarity, a larger, deeper soundstage, and a warm lovely overall sound. Also I come across the MC 40 and MC 60 and haven’t heard them. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Steve
 
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MC60 and MC30 - tube rectification

MC40, 75, 225, 240, 275 - solid state rectification

I like em all. The MC225 is special as the 7591s are just magical. MC30 appeals to me least of them all, but to others it's the pinnacle. I still do have excellent examples of the 225 and 275 (original design).

Have fun.
 
Yea, I’m sorta leaning towards the MC 225. What’s better, tube rectification or solid state rectification?
 
What you’re asking for is largely subjective and the audiophile descriptive words you use are applied to nearly everything in audio by people who all hear something different. Further, condition, restoration choices, and tube choices will further influence sound signature.

There are some of us who prefer the sound of certain power tubes over others: KT-88, 6L6GC, 7591, EL34, 300B, they all have their fans and the varying circuitry around them, … once you get to the large variation in sound signature it’s all down to preference/taste and needs to be experienced.

Here on AK, which is pretty much the market-maker for audio opinions and values, the MC225 has become famous as the best sounding amplifier and just accepted as such. Personally I haven’t heard it, prefer the MC275/MC75 (KT-88), but I also was told that the MC40/240 (7072A/6L6GC) has a softer sound signature, owning both I didn’t agree.

My personal experience leans toward the highest power of them all for the better punch and speed that the bass seemed to have as well as the reduced influence the bass has on the higher frequencies (on my 104dB sensitive speakers at the time as well as other choices), my wife preferred the 6L6GC sound on all speakers but is a very low-SPL listener, so truly it is preference and taste.

I think the majority of tube lovers here are MC225 fans over the others, not sure why other than possibly just more of them out there to be experienced as most people have never owned all three types and I’ll guess that most have not even owned two of the three tube-types in McIntosh amps, so a lot goes on opinion here at AK, … you need to listen to them and decide. Buy both if you can find nice examples, they’re not hard to sell and you might just keep both to bi-amp.
 
I have both. For pure musicality I would lean towards the 225 with its 7591 tubes. On any of these MAC amps from that era be sure you replace the 100uf feedback cap in both channels and bypass with a .33uf film cap. That feedback circuit and related parts have a big impact on the sound of the amp.

Another amp you may want to consider is the Marantz 8B.
 
SaturationPt said:
What you’re asking for is largely subjective and the audiophile descriptive words you use are applied to nearly everything in audio by people who all hear something different. Further, condition, restoration choices, and tube choices will further influence sound signature.

There are some of us who prefer the sound of certain power tubes over others: KT-88, 6L6GC, 7591, EL34, 300B, they all have their fans and the varying circuitry around them, … once you get to the large variation in sound signature it’s all down to preference/taste and needs to be experienced.

Here on AK, which is pretty much the market-maker for audio opinions and values, the MC225 has become famous as the best sounding amplifier and just accepted as such. Personally I haven’t heard it, prefer the MC275/MC75 (KT-88), but I also was told that the MC40/240 (7072A/6L6GC) has a softer sound signature, owning both I didn’t agree.

My personal experience leans toward the highest power of them all for the better punch and speed that the bass seemed to have as well as the reduced influence the bass has on the higher frequencies (on my 104dB sensitive speakers at the time as well as other choices), my wife preferred the 6L6GC sound on all speakers but is a very low-SPL listener, so truly it is preference and taste.

I think the majority of tube lovers here are MC225 fans over the others, not sure why other than possibly just more of them out there to be experienced as most people have never owned all three types and I’ll guess that most have not even owned two of the three tube-types in McIntosh amps, so a lot goes on opinion here at AK, … you need to listen to them and decide. Buy both if you can find nice examples, they’re not hard to sell and you might just keep both to bi-amp.
Click to expand...
All of these amps have their place in the top echelon of vintage. For me, I've been SO taken with the '61 MC275 I got from Gibson that it has moved to the top of my list for favorites. Tied with my MC2600s as favorite of all time it is. So different, yet so similar in the musical enjoyment they convey.
 
The one single Mc tube amp I've heard was an MC225. I thought it was warm to the point of lacking detail, which isn't a sound signature I'm into. It was completely original and un-restored so its entirely possible thats not what its supposed to sound like.

Best advice I can offer is to see if you can listen to both in the same environment, ideally yours, and make your choice based on what you like. What the rest of us prefer doesn't matter.
 
The MC 30 is a little warmer than the 225, but the 225 has better high freq definition. Dynamically I think the MC 30 might be a touch better. A 225 put out 34 watts before clipping when new and a MC 30 very close to 40 watts. A MC 60 is the most dynamic coming close to 94 watts . I liked mine. It wasn't quite as fast as a MC 75 or as defined. I had a three channel system with 275's running mono for the left and right and the 60 in the middle using speakers with all the same drivers. The 60 was again just a bit warmer. I serviced MC 40's but never had one home to listen to critically. My two favorite all time tube Mcintosh power amps are the MC 225 and the MC 3500. That includes listening to the newer Mac tube power amps. MC 3500 MK II, MC 2000, MC 2102, MC 152 and MC 2301. Of course tube amps because of their transformers can be influenced by the varying impedance of loud speakers. So it possible to get totally different results depending on the speakers you choose. I know one thing for sure, ported and bass reflex with their wild impedance swings can really influence the sound coming out of a tube amplifier. Thats why tube audiophiles were always looking for the perfect match between an amp and the speakers they owned. Marantz amps were a little dryer than Mac amps and some people preferred the Model 9. Citation amps had a different sound, also. If you want a really warm amp look for some of Fishers basic stereo tube amplifiers. At least they were warmer with my Altec Carmels way back when. I preferred my MA 230 and later a MC 240 with a C-22. Working for a dealer allowed me to take equipment home and have serious auditions.
 
Opinions are pretty much equally divided among these models which suggests there probably isn't a clear cut advantage to any of them. Rather than basing selection on sonic any differences which are likely to be negligible, I'd suggest looking for examples in the best cosmetic condition which will hold their value much better in the long run.
 
I imagine I can’t go wrong with an MC240, kinda has the best of both worlds with power and wonderful sound. Since I really don’t need a lot of power for my Klipschorn’s (like the MC275) I now have to see who’s selling the MC240!

Then again there’s the MC225…………….ugh! Trying hard to pick one.
 
I have MC30's and had an MC225. They both have the power supplies rebuilt. Certain signal caps were replaced, especially in the 30's where the bumblebees were trashed, split sides etc. I thought the 225 was very clean and clear sounding but a bit too much for my taste. When I measured the 1W FR it was flat to just over 100kHz with just a small rise from 10k to 100k, maybe 1dB. The 10k square waves had quite a large overshoot on the leading edge. I wondered when I saw this if that was related to a bit of sharpness that I thought was present in the sound. The 30's seem a bit rolled off in comparison but it is a comfortable sound. I've never measured FR or other things on the 30's.
 
Audio Classics has both and they offer an eleven day audition plan!

Thats what I did when I got my MC 830's for my XRT 28's when two of my MC 207 channels were not quite enough for peaks from Telarc and Sheffield and my live boot leg recordings. I will admit the sound of a MC 462 is a little warmer but that was easily corrected with my MQ 107.

Why do I have a MQ 107? Because my room is NOT symmetrical. The right speakers is in a Perfect corner and the left speakerIMG_4038.jpeg is not. Its also why I have a real time spectrum analyzer to correctly adjust the MQ 107 among other uses.
 
I have MC30's an MC225, and MC240's - all properly rebuilt. I have also used a V1 MC275 that was fully rebuilt all on the same system. Mac C100 Pre & Rega RS7 speakers.

They all sounded a bit different.

MC30's felt more fluid if that's the right word.
MC225 was nicely detailed top to bottom.
MC240 was the same with more oomph. (I also ran a pair in mono and they were hands down the winner across the board. :) )
MC275 had authority in the low end but felt a little less upper mid)

It's subjective and system based.
 
Dr Morbius said:
Yea, I’m sorta leaning towards the MC 225. What’s better, tube rectification or solid state rectification
Click to expand...

Not sure if you have picked up either amp yet. But in either model make sure you replace that 100uf 3V cap in the feedback circuit for each channel with a new BP 100uf cap and bypass the new cap with a .33uf film cap. That feedback loop has a bigger effect on the sound than choosing between the 30 and 225 or doing any tube rolling on either amp.
On the 30 you may want to add a choke to the power supply since you are running super high efficiency speakers. The choke will lower the noise floor the MC30 by a measurable 7-9db.
 
Have you made a decision?

As others have conveyed, it really depends on your ears and your system. I auditioned restored 240 and 275 I; 275 IV, 275 V, and 275 VI at Audio Classics (on Klipschorns). I didn’t consider monoblocks or, sadly, the 225, which many consider if not the, then definitely among, McIntosh’s best, and I wish I had.

For me, the clear winner (especially in clarity, speed, extended highs, and deep, articulated bass) was the 275 VI, which I purchased for use with my KHorns. The 240 was somewhat dark and muffled. And the earlier 275s couldn’t compete with the current model—to my and others’ ears. (This included my brother, who owns the 275 V, and a couple employees at AC.)

Godspeed!
 
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nerdorama said:
I have MC30's and had an MC225. They both have the power supplies rebuilt. Certain signal caps were replaced, especially in the 30's where the bumblebees were trashed, split sides etc. I thought the 225 was very clean and clear sounding but a bit too much for my taste. When I measured the 1W FR it was flat to just over 100kHz with just a small rise from 10k to 100k, maybe 1dB. The 10k square waves had quite a large overshoot on the leading edge. I wondered when I saw this if that was related to a bit of sharpness that I thought was present in the sound. The 30's seem a bit rolled off in comparison but it is a comfortable sound. I've never measured FR or other things on the 30's.
Click to expand...

A small cap fixes that overshoot
Search Dave Gillespies posts on the MC240
 
What Scott’s do you have? I know this is the McIntosh sub forum so I may get flamed for this, but depending on the model Scott you have I would consider keeping it over a Mac.

I have had a 225 and a pair of MC30s pass through here. These are my favorite tube Mac amps I have heard (better than MC40s and the 240, I didn’t much like those). If you had to choose I personally would go with the 30s, but they are about tied for me.

All that being said, although good, I have heard many amps (including some Scotts) that beat both the 225 and the 30s in my opinion, so again depending on model I would consider keeping what you have.
 
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