Mcd205 or Mvp861.... this is the problem

[willy]

Hi people, i'm a McIntosh user from Palermo, this is my first post here but i read this forum every day, ok.... i'm really a mc lover
I need a little help ...
...i'm upgrading my ma6500 with a ma6900, at the same time i can change my mcd205 with a mvp861 but the dealer don't have the universal player at the store, so i can't compare the players at my home.
Actually i have the mcd205 for the music and a marantz dv7600 for dvd/sacd, only one source for both audio and video would be ok for me, i can sell the dv7600 without difficult.
My priority is the audio quality, the mvp861 is really better than the mcd205 ?
the dealer says yes but i say "maybe" :scratch2:
I need a serious opinion from others mc users, i don't want to do a downgrade/sidegrade :nono:

Many thanks

Willy

 

[Negotiableterms]

A trip to the Mc website allows you to compare the specs of the two. The 861 has 24/192 DACs, while the 205 has 24/96 DACs. The 861 should sound better, based solely on the specs. I've never heard the two side by side, but I have a 205, and am going to buy an 861 for my HT.

Now... I wouldn't buy either of them if I were you. I'd buy the new MCD-201, which is supposed to sound better than both, and it's much cheaper than the 861. If you don't need DVD-A, and you're happy with your existing DVD player, then why spend extra money for the 861?

 

[willy]

Now... I wouldn't buy either of them if I were you. I'd buy the new MCD-201, which is supposed to sound better than both, and it's much cheaper than the 861. If you don't need DVD-A, and you're happy with your existing DVD player, then why spend extra money for the 861?

Yes, i know the specs are better for mvp861 but, in my experience, all the multistandard player i have listened in pure audio in fact are not better than a dedicated cd player, clearly in the same range of price.
The new mcd201 is a good idea for a real upgrade.

Thanks

Willy

 

[jim777]

The new mcd201 is a good idea for a real upgrade.

If you don't need video (well the 205 didn't have it anyway), I give another vote for the 201 - it is a 100% sure upgrade and you get SACD and a pre-amp headphone amp bonus.

 

[Jericho]

Sacd yes, but not in multi channel, only two channel I think, compared with the 861 which is multi channel

 

[Hepcat]

The MCD205 is the best CD player I've ever heard. Bar none.

And that includes all of the DVD players I have on hand. Not Macs, but pretty good ones.

 

[willy]

In another forum i have read that the mvp861 plan derives from the denon2900, it is true ?
I have had disastrous experiences with this brand and the audio quality was nothing special.
I hope this is not true otherwise it will be better to hold mine mcd205
I am truly doubtful now :scratch2:

Probably the better thing is to wait for and to buy a mcd201 when available in my city.

However thanks you all

Willy

 

[jim777]

The 861 uses the 2900 transport and software but everything else is mac (including all the audio..)

 

[Negotiableterms]

The 861 uses the 2900 transport and software but everything else is mac (including all the audio..)

Let's keep in mind that McIntosh is owned by D&M Holdings, which also owns Denon and Marantz. No surprise that there's some technology sharing, but Mc is allowed to maintain its high standards by going to other sources when appropriate. Look at the Linn transport in the MCD-1000.

I wonder who makes the 4x/2x speed transport in the MCD-201? Multiple reads are a great idea, taken right out of computer technology.

 

[ron-c]

The plain old CD transport is pretty much a dead horse now. Everything is based on universal DVD type transports. McIntosh makes decisions on transports based on longevity, length of availability, quality, appropriate cost, etc. All transports are full of parts from many vendors and are major engineering projects.
The MCD201 uses a unique transport until some other company uses it of course. The transport vendors all have many customers.
The MCD205 uses a very good sounding multibit DAC as does the MCD201. You can look at these as high resolution but they are not pure 24/192 yet many prefer the sound of this type of DAC. Users have always commented on the clarity and realism of the MCD205 sound and the MCD201 is more of the same and has about the cleanest SACD in the industry.
The MVP861 had a tougher job as it has to support a lot of audio formats which it does with very good sound. Many CD/SACD players are outperformed by the MVP861.
Thanks,
Ron-C

 

[willy]

Hi mr. Ron, thanks for your explanations, now I do not have doubts, my next upgrade will be a mcd201
Today I will withdraw my new ma6900, this is already a significant upgrade, tonight my mcd205 and my electra 937be will make a party

Thanks

Willy

 

[jim777]

MCD201 redbook performance

The MCD201 brochure just came available. If the MCD201 sounds better than the MVP861, it is proof again that specifications don't tell the whole story, even within the same company

I hope that people will not be looking at specs alone...

Because anyway, 16-bit audio has a best possible 96.33dB SNR by definition, so comparing the specs of the 861 and the 201 to determine redbook performance doesn't make sense to begin with... silly me.

This isn't really a question or an answer to anything, I just wanted to share my reflection

 

[pathologymd]

MCD201 ordered!

Well,I finally bit the bullet and ordered a MCD201 from my local dealer. It won't be here at least until the end of February, but I can wait. I look forward to comparing it to my Sony XA9000ES, and balanced vs unbalanced. I was about to get the 861, but this is to be used strictly in my 2 channel main system, and seems like a better choice for me.

William

 

[macman007]

Longish review...

Greetings to all..

I just recieved my MVP861 yesterday. After a 5 hour listening session last night, I found the 861 to have fantastic redbook and SACD multi channel reproduction. It took about 2 hours for the unit to break in and get rid of some of the edge present in a new component. I previewed the 205 a few times and spent may hours demoing one at my dealer.I found the 205's transport to feel flimsy compared to the 861 and the overall sound to be somewhat more generic, less warm and detailed. The video side of the 861 is impecable, and IMHO will please all but the most fussy critics. My dvd choice was David Gilmour at Robert Wyatt's meltdown. I am intimatly familiar with this title and i must say it never looked or sounded better. The details in the video of Davids guitars and the Cello are out of this world, both natural and detailed. This is a PCM stereo and 5.1 dvd and the 861 does both with ease. On the song "Division Bell" I was able to easily hear the first chime of the bell, which till now I never heard until the second or third strike. "Comfortably Numb" is very chilling and thrilling simultaneously, raising the hairs all over my body and driving me to pure musical bliss.


Next came my redbook choice. I picked Dire Straits Brothers in Arms another familiar favorite. Unreal...."Money for Nothing" comes thru as a bit overdriven as always, but overall much better than I'm used to hearing. "Ride Across The River" was very subtle, stirring and emotionaly involving, leaving me trembleing with lustful excitement. Finally, "Brothers In Arms" finished me off but left me wanting more. The soft strings of Knopfler's guitar linger hauntingly in the background then come just enough into the fore to get your attention then receed. All the while the 861 is keeping instrument placement, balance, and detail locked dead nuts on, adding nothing and taking away nothing. Needless to say I will be spending more time with my redbooks now that I can hear them in a whole different way.

Finally, for my SACD choice I went with "Jeff Waynes Musical Version of The War of the Worlds". This is a hybrid cd with redbook, SACD 2 channel, and SACD 5.1 all in layers on the same discs. This is a 2 disc set, so I went with disc 2 "The Earth Under The Martians". The 861 has no difficulty selecting and locking onto the layer you wish to hear, and after toying with them all a bit I picked SACD 5.1 to see what the player and the Disc are capable of. Of course this disc was picked by Sony to showcase what the SACD multichannel format is capable of and it doesn't dissapoint. Fantastic and effortless channel seperation with excellent sound reproduction overall. This has to be the best digital format I have heard to date,IMHO, and it would be a shame if it doesnt take off. The heartbeats and Synth's at the beginning of the disc were frightiningly realistic and true. The soaring vocals in Phil Lynotts solo take me back to the days of Thin Lizzy when I saw them live. "Dead London" is as creepy and horrifying as I've ever heard it. I think I was more scared hearing this now in 5.1 than I was at 10 years age hearing it the first time. All in all this player delivers SACD the way it's meant to be; the way its supposed to sound

In conclusion I can find no fault with the 861 in any mode although it does feel a bit light in weight and construction compared to my Sony ES DVD/ SACD player. Construction aside, the 861 leaves the Sony in the dust. Some have commented that the MVP 851 had better reviews but having evaluated both as a replacement to my aging Sony, the 861 is hands down my favorite. The 205 left me wanting for more, even though initially I went to my dealer with the intent of getting a replacement for my aging MCD 7000. When I heard the 851 then the new 861, the choice was obvious to me. IMHO, it does all things and does them REALLY well. My hats off to Ron and company on the MVP 861 and the MX 135. They are truely a match made in heaven.

I hope this review is helpful.

Artie

 

[xsparky]

Nice reveiw Macman......Thanks



For Ron-C...Hi there,

"The MVP861 had a tougher job as it has to support a lot of audio formats which it does with very good sound. Many CD/SACD players are outperformed by the MVP861. "
Thanks,
Ron-C

A tough question,but does the MVP861 out perform the MCD-201?Or would the MCD-201 be better in redbook playback?

Cheers.

 

[Puunda]

Yes, i know the specs are better for mvp861 but, in my experience, all the multistandard player i have listened in pure audio in fact are not better than a dedicated cd player, clearly in the same range of price.
The new mcd201 is a good idea for a real upgrade.

From what most people have said to me, a pure cd player would play redbook cd's better than universal/dvd players. I've never understood why this would be? Is there any technical reasons why you can't make a universal player which plays CD, SACD, DVD etc just as well as a dedicated player?

 

[jim777]

A tough question,but does the MVP861 out perform the MCD-201?Or would the MCD-201 be better in redbook playback?

Well thats the question that ron-c does not want to answer I think

For CD playback it might not make a difference, because the noise floor of the two players are way below the noise floor of a 16-bit CD (96dB). Two have multi-bit dacs so the signal processing should be similar...

Like is the 861 better than the 205??

I hope someone will do a serious listening test and report here, because my dealer won't have the 201 for a while and I want to choose between the two models...

Ron-c will kindly say that one is a 5.1 DVD player and the other a pure stereo player; and it's true. Why compare the two?

So I guess I'll say why we (at least me) want to know...

I want a great redbook player and all the rest (video, dvd-a, sacd) is just bonus. Stereo Music is my 1st priority and budget is limited (in Mc terms).

(MCD201 point of vue) A top-notch CD/SACD stereo player that will be a long-time investment/value; plus it can drive headphones directly!

(MVP861 point of vue) Get an very-super-great dvd-player bonus for not too much doe$, especially compared to buying a seperate dvd. The "value" point is that this DVD player will probably be outdated way before the CD player (or in the worst case, at the same time with some kind of high res music). A "871" will eventually come out with HDMI and BlueRay and/or HdDVD, etc...

If the MCD201 is really better than the MVP861, if it is really (quote) "easily the best single-box McIntosh player ever", than I want the MCD201 because I can live with less-than-optimal dvd-video for a while, until I have money for a HDTV and a high res player.

BUT, if the two are as great on redbook, than the 861 has lots of added value for the added price, with almost only the preamp missing.

So thats why some guys like me, with less-than-25k$ total system budget and audio first in mind have a hard time deciding between the two models...

So hopefully someone that has listened to both (maybe ron ) will give more detail on the sonic nuances (differences) of both models with redbook.

Just to be clear, in case my english isnt perfect, I'm not hitting on anyone, especially not ron-c, who is a great guy and it is really cool to have him in AK.

 

[jim777]

From what most people have said to me, a pure cd player would play redbook cd's better than universal/dvd players. I've never understood why this would be? Is there any technical reasons why you can't make a universal player which plays CD, SACD, DVD etc just as well as a dedicated player?

In a low cost player the power supply of a universal has more to do so you have compromise.

But with the 861 it may not be the case... ?

Maybe the 201 and the 861 sound the same on redbook and it is just to us to decide between features.... ?

 

[Puunda]

In a low cost player the power supply of a universal has more to do so you have compromise.

But with the 861 it may not be the case... ?

Maybe the 201 and the 861 sound the same on redbook and it is just to us to decide between features.... ?

My point is, in the current age we're living in, do we have the technology to create a universal player which can play cd's, dvd's ect as well as a dedicated player? (as least in on paper).

 

[ron-c]

Not a tough question. Take a favorite disk to your dealer and compare them. In a case of which sounds best very few agree so you need to decide for yourself. McIntosh builds and designs each model to sound as good as we can make it.

Thank you,
Ron Cornelius