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McIntosh, overrated? I Used to Think So.

Magfinity

Magfinity

Active Member
Banned
Hi there

About 2 decades ago I bought a mc2505 power amp with the infamous c26 pre amp. Beautiful looking gear, the glass front bezels ,the blue meters on the relatively small 100w/50w amplifier from the McIntosh product linage. Long story short,it didn't last long. Was it nice ? Not really,matter in fact is didn't impress me enough to justify keeping it. I never looked at it again being honest..

Fast forward 20 years

I just last week scored (trade in for a speaker I had) a mac1700 from 1967 , a iconic piece of mcintosh. This unit has been completely gone over rebuild where needed and just in pristine condition. And current prices seem to hover between 1-2k plus even in this condition.

I didn't hook it up until yesterday ,as the bad taste of the past was giving me the "just sell this thing " vibes. But, I had to know and try seen the fact it's in such a beautiful shape.

Honestly? I think I've made a huge mistake back then by not investing in getting my gear overhauled/checked up. I now really believe I had some wear /tear issue with the gear I had back then.

The sound was absolutely amazing, for a 40 watter to drive even some serious floorstanders. To me was rather surprising. They clearly set the bar for sonic quality back in those days. And this is not even considered the higher end of mcintosh.

So I've been reading here and there that many find McIntosh overrated. I was for sure on that bandwagon , especially 20 years ago. Which by now,seems very clear that us audio enthusiasts have the bad habit. Of letting one or two bad experiences get the better of us.

I feel many that say "overrated" haven't heard much of the McIntosh product out there. And what they have heard?! Most likely comes from decades ago , and needed some attention!

Is mcintosh expensive? Yes, I do get it has a certain "Rolex" status/ appeal to it.

Is mcintosh good gear ? I am 20 years wiser now, I feel it for sure is especially when you realize that most second hand gear is just old. And needs SERVICE... Ignoring this is asking for a subpar result. As a 20 year old snot nose wth did I know back then .

Is mcintosh overrated ? Used to think so! Not anymore,I can honestly say I actually starting to get warm again to up my game towards a nice mcintosh rig in the near future . Also kept in mind that this brand has been making gear for over half a century . They set the standard pretty darn high then ,and it still translates well towards today's era.

Anyways, I've changed my mind a good bit on McIntosh. Offcourse, it's not cheap and not meant for everybody. But calling McIntosh overrated ? I've learned my lesson , get them serviced ,also don't judge based on a few products you have tried. Mcintosh enjoys a rather huge line of product. I just hope for those that were like me ,give a restored unit a fair shake you'll see it's pretty

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Anyways wanted to share my own findings..
 
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There are many many aspects and levels to what you are touching upon, they are independent of brand and apply to each of us. Just a few are, maturity, mood, sample size, setting, criteria ….

Regarding opinions and statements, I have eaten my words enough that I have realized I can’t be trusted. Black and white just isn’t enough choices any longer.

Unfortunately I cannot, or let’s say chose not to play at that level of this hobby. I wish I could, I would be proud I think to own such a prestigious brand.

McIntosh emphasized several criteria that many brands chose to trade off in order to emphasize affordability. Nothing wrong with that, it was likely a smart business decision. McIntosh's choice then is what makes them desirable now, a premium brand with a good eye for form. The fact they weren’t willing to skimp on materials and aesthetics to reduce cost implies the same for their functional choices as well. Did they make a few mistakes, likely, but what brand doesn’t?

You are fortunate in many ways from what I gather.
 
I restored a MC2205 power amp and C26 preamp. I ran the power amp in my main system in my main system instead of my Kenwood 700M for a few weeks. With the 700C as a preamp. It was certainly no lesser. Maybe a bit different. That one certainly lived up to the McIntosh name. Great looking piece as well.
I wasn't a big a fan of the preamp, but the 700C is a formidable foe in a preamp shootoff.

Not every piece of McIntosh gear is on the same level, but there are some real gems.

I believe we are at the point where you cannot properly judge a piece of vintage 70s gear if it hasn't been recapped/overhauled (properly). It will sound dull and inaccurate.
Would have been different 20 years ago but I've only been working on this gear for 10.
 
I am of the opinion that Mcintosh like Marantz and Luxman and other brands are indeed possibly over rated and certainly over priced. I have never once heard anything by Mcintosh that I liked SS or Tube, this being said I certainly have only heard items that were unrestored and there may be a big difference between the sound of a restored item versus not restored. Certainly the majority of mac stuff looks well built and one would think should sound good so I am withholding final judgement until I hear a few mac items that have been restored.



Regards Snow
 
First off and foremost, wonderful responses ! I agree with each and every one of you. Now, I had a small message in my inbox. Basically telling me "there is more out there than McIntosh"

Just for the very few, that think I am all of a sudden a "McIntosh for all eternity" guy. Absolutely not so, I always had a very superficial opinion on the amplifier end of things in general.

Basically, that a good amp just does the job as required regardless of brand. It's a bit more refined now, as I learn everyday. To explore, the many roads you can take in this hobby. My motto always has been , aslong as that road still ends with music being the winner. I have no issue, in admitting that I have bantered a brand for decades. Purely because I wasn't educated enough about the matter.

Nothing wrong there , self reflecting
 
Interesting, one experience with a pre-power set up and you are cold to the brand and then another experience with an old receiver that has been refreshed and you are claiming the brand worthy.

I had a Marantz 18 here for a while, great sound, handled the Magneplanars to the power limit of the unit but it did not sound like newer Marantz from the 70s, much better bass and fullness to the sound.

I'm not basing my opinion of Marantz on that one unit.

Glad you found a unit that sounds great to you.
 
Blue Shadow said:
Interesting, one experience with a pre-power set up and you are cold to the brand and then another experience with an old receiver that has been refreshed and you are claiming the brand worthy.

I had a Marantz 18 here for a while, great sound, handled the Magneplanars to the power limit of the unit but it did not sound like newer Marantz from the 70s, much better bass and fullness to the sound.

I'm not basing my opinion of Marantz on that one unit.

Glad you found a unit that sounds great to you.
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c

Mintosh nor my marantz stack is anywhere near what I play with in my main system . This isn't a advertisement for the unit I have. Just to put that out there. My planars (Tympani I, mIIIa ,mgI ,mgII, mmg,mmgi) I have many I never really driven with them. McIntosh doesn't need me to speak for them...

However it can easily be done, magnepans are not hard to drive speakers aside from the low sensitivity. My infinity kappa 9 dips to 0.8ohm , it just needs a welder. And it's pretty rare , not many speakers out there that have such dips (Apogee scintilla, rs4.5 ) I think we can count them on one hand.

Anyways it's interesting and makes me want to venture a bit more into the vintage side again. Re capping is not hard on most equipment. And it seems more needed than I thought . I wonder how many here listen to inaccurate equipment, I bet many (vintage) lovers .
 
Doug G. said:
Judgment/opinion based on a piece of vintage equipment, not having been verified to be within original specifications, is completely invalid.

Doug
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In your opinion... What if an item sounds great without restoration is that invalid also? I have actually owned items that sounded better without restoration versus being restored. Personally I think that most items you can get a good idea whether or not you want to restore them by listening, if they truly sound awful before odds are you wont like even after restoration.
 
Snow said:
In your opinion... What if an item sounds great without restoration is that invalid also? I have actually owned items that sounded better without restoration versus being restored. Personally I think that most items you can get a good idea whether or not you want to restore them by listening, if they truly sound awful before odds are you wont like even after restoration.
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Interesting that you mention that ,I've had that happen being the case with mainly speakers.
 
Right at this moment I am listening to my McIntosh centric system.

In answer to the question, I'd say "No, McIntosh is not overrated". It might be reviled, ignored or panned by some but I've always wondered if they ever really listened to it.

Having had many different systems, brands, configurations and variations I still remember my first McIntosh system from Oh So Many Years Ago. It was taken from me by a thief, and I have always lamented that day.

I can say that, of all the systems I've put together over the years, the McIntosh system I have today is the most pleasing I have ever had. I'm forever grateful that I made the decision to return to McIntosh.
 
Magfinity said:
Interesting that you mention that ,I've had that happen being the case with mainly speakers.
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I think that it is uncommon for restored gear to sound worse but it can happen, a lot likely depends on what the choices were that were made in caps and other items that can change the sound when the restoration was done. Some gear the main filter caps can be so weak that you can barely turn it up even a few notches before it starts to distort, in cases like these almost certainly a restoration will be an improvement.

Of course we all like different types of sound too so what may sound good to me may not sound good to you and as I get older I know my hearing is now not what it once was either, I can remember a few years ago a young guy in his 20's was riding with me on the highway and he spoke up and said your phone is ringing I listened carefully and could not hear it, but pulled it out of my pocket and sure enough it was ringing, I was very surprised, because my hearing had always been very good.


Regards Snow
 
62caddy said:
For those who understand, no explanation is necessary.
For those who don't, no explanation will suffice.
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I don't find that saying to be relevant to the subject. I believe either you enjoy the sound of something or you don't Brand should make no difference virtually all brands have made at least one turd amongst the great ones. I can and so can anyone else with eyesight see that Mcintosh gear at least the majority of it is well built and so is other gear I have owned like Lexicon Parasound Carver Lightstar but none of the ones I heard impressed me. Now with that being said I fully expect that at some point I will listen to some mac gear that will sound great to me, as many mac lovers as there are out there they cant all be wrong and even if they are I will buy all I can get my grubby paws on because it is like gold even better because Mac gear does not drop in value.


Regards Snow
 
Very well built, but heavily geared towards cosmetics and features with questionable utility. Do you want the green or blue backlighting on the tubes? Since we suspect you're unable to hear clipping, let's include a compressor circuit to engage when you overdrive the amplifier. Never mind we still use $.44 op amps in the signal path.

Their tube gear sounds quite good. A pair of 2301s would do nicely driving my stats. I'd just switch off the cyclop's eyes as I did when a reviewer friend had one in his home. ;)

Snow said:
...because Mac gear does not drop in value.
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That assertion is not supported by prices of Mac gear on Audiogon.
 
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