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McIntosh, overrated? I Used to Think So.

I think judging a brand by its 50 year old offerings, restored or unrestored, is only valid if those are the only pieces you may be interested in owning.


McIntosh has moved on from the sound of those early units. Modern McIntosh electronics perform very well objectively and they sound great to me.

Cost of ownership has been negative for me with their amps and preamps. I have been able to sell them for more than I paid. Values are generally holding with time. Source gear and pre/pros - you will lose your shirt, just like other brands.

There are more esoteric brands that use capacitors rolled on the thighs of Nicaraguan virgins, resistors fired in the flames of Käzäd-Düm, etc. You won’t find any of that in a McIntosh product. Just good engineering and a consistent design language (love it or hate it) that allows you to mix and match gear across a few decades.

One other thing - they answer the phone, and can get you parts for most of their older gear.
 
Raccoon1400 said:
If speakers sound worse after recapping, then they probably weren't done properly. And certain cap choices don't work well for certain tweeters. One can end up making something a lot brighter.
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Unfortunately that's not as cut dry as you think , especially if you ever looked a crossovers that Arnie nudell designed.

The amount of ebay hack crossover I have heard by now is countless. I even had kappas pass my bench, that were overhauled with top parts but in a way. It defied every single principle that speaker has been toted amazing for.

I do agree if you replace a cap for a cap it should not do much (however you just said it yourself NOT EVERY CAP IS THE SAME) . Problem is, I have (so personally experienced) that many that redo crossovers?! Cannot help themselves by putting in a way to express themselves with the best of intentions.

Making a 4 way ...3 way (referring to the overhauled crossovers on eBay these days) is just not good. I am no expert, but I've rebuild plenty by now that I am rather proficient with a soldering iron and some patience. It's not rocket science, especially a simple recap.
 
On the original topic, I've found it hard to make generalizations based on brand at all. Names known for junk occasionally put their name on something decent. And most high end brands have made some models that don't quite stand up to the rest of the gear made by that name.
McIntosh made some great gear that is at the top of the game, but they aren't the be all end all.

At the end of the day it comes down to the model in question, and then the condition and working order of the specific specimen. And whether you are using the right gear for role you give it.
 
E-Stat said:
Very well built, but heavily geared towards cosmetics and features with questionable utility. Do you want the green or blue backlighting on the tubes? Since we suspect you're unable to hear clipping, let's include a compressor circuit to engage when you overdrive the amplifier. Never mind we still use $.44 op amps in the signal path.

Their tube gear sounds quite good. A pair of 2301s would do nicely driving my stats. I'd just switch off the cyclop's eyes as I did when a reviewer friend had one in his home. ;)


That assertion is not supported by prices of Mac gear on Audiogon.
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Well assertiveness or not , they retain their value, then the opamp comment. You'll find that in any brand, unless you think a Dan dagostino relentless amp is really made of solid gold (at the 250k price tag)

Raccoon1400 said:
On the original topic, I've found it hard to make generalizations based on brand at all. Names known for junk occasionally put their name on something decent. And most high end brands have made some models that don't quite stand up to the rest of the gear made by that name.
McIntosh made some great gear that is at the top of the game, but they aren't the be all end all.

At the end of the day it comes down to the model in question, and then the condition and working order of the specific specimen. And whether you are using the right gear for role you give it.
Click to expand...


All true
 
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One other factor should be mentioned. McIntosh supports its vintage gear for much longer than most other brands. Parts and service information is available for 20 years or more. Of course, there are exceptions, especially with digital gear where many critical parts like CD drives are bought in, but they do a better job at long term customer support that most other companies.
 
bobschneider said:
One other factor should be mentioned. McIntosh supports its vintage gear for much longer than most other brands. Parts and service information is available for 20 years or more. Of course, there are exceptions, especially with digital gear where many critical parts like CD drives are bought in, but they do a better job at long term customer support that most other companies.
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Yeah this is a pretty nice upside.
I bet they make a lot of money off replacing glass faceplates.
 
Against my better judgement, I'll dip my toe in this thread before it's locked.

I couldn't afford Mac gear in the 70's when I started down this path called audiophoolery. Up until one year ago, I never owned a single piece of Mac gear but my accountant had an MC2100 that he bought new that I've lusted after for many years. He hadn't had it in service for 15 years or so, and I knew I could be opening up a can of worms if he ever let loose of it. Finally, I convinced him to sell it to me, and I immediately took it to my trusted tech of many years. The ironic thing to me, was when he saw it, he said, "that's the only Mac amp I like the sound of." This man has worked on literally thousands of pieces of audio electronics in his career, and I respect the work he does and his opinion on gear. Not to mention I know what his main system consists of and the type of sound he likes.

So after about $400.00 in parts and labor, I got my rebuilt MC2100 and installed it in my main system. It displaced a Mitsubishi DA-A15DC amp that I've had for many years. In it's defense, it needs a re-cap and a complete going through as it is 45 years old.

So to end my thoughts, the MC2100 is not going to be leaving my main system any time soon. So is Mac gear overrated? To some I suppose. Is some of it very well built and great sounding gear? To me, yes. Who cares what anyone else thinks about it? :smoke:
 
MitsuMan said:
Against my better judgement, I'll dip my toe in this thread before it's locked.

I couldn't afford Mac gear in the 70's when I started down this path called audiophoolery. Up until one year ago, I never owned a single piece of Mac gear but my accountant had an MC2100 that he bought new that I've lusted after for many years. He hadn't had it in service for 15 years or so, and I knew I could be opening up a can of worms if he ever let loose of it. Finally, I convinced him to sell it to me, and I immediately took it to my trusted tech of many years. The ironic thing to me, was when he saw it, he said, "that's the only Mac amp I like the sound of." This man has worked on literally thousands of pieces of audio electronics in his career, and I respect the work he does and his opinion on gear. Not to mention I know what his main system consists of and the type of sound he likes.

So after about $400.00 in parts and labor, I got my rebuilt MC2100 and installed it in my main system. It displaced a Mitsubishi DA-A15DC amp that I've had for many years. In it's defense, it needs a re-cap and a complete going through as it is 45 years old.

So to end my thoughts, the MC2100 is not going to be leaving my main system any time soon. So is Mac gear overrated? To some I suppose. Is some of it very well built and great sounding gear? To me, yes. Who cares what anyone else thinks about it? :smoke:
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It'd be interesting to have something like that to parity check against more prosaic amps, but that ship sailed for me some time ago. Say, an Adcom GFA-535 vs an MC250 would be interesting.
 
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What one guy thinks is overrated another might think is the best thing since sliced bread. What gets me is when somebody says something like “I’ve never heard a piece of Mac gear that I liked”. It’s like, really? Never one piece of Mac gear you thought sounded good? Not one? Wow, those seem like high standards to me. I think the problem is brand, some folks are just determined to NOT like certain brands. Same with motorcycles, trucks…you name it. It’s usually pretty easy to spot and I take their opinion with a grain of salt.
 
I have only 2 data points to inform this discussion:
1. Bought a behemoth Marantz 2385 new in 1982 and it was in daily use until the mid-90s, then the pots were getting noisy, the switches intermittent and the dial illumination plastic yellowed and cracked. Decided to sell and replace with a used MAC-4100 from the same era. The 4100 was completely solid, it exhibited none of the annoying behavior of the well-respected Marantz.
2. Bought a pair of mint LaScalas about 14 years ago, and then traded a Colt 1911 for a pair of tired MC-40s, figuring they would be the perfect match to drive these speakers. It all sat unused, didn't even try powering them up, until Covid days gave me the time to try rebuilding the amps. With the help of he AK community, I got the amps sorted, and OMG, did they sound glorious. Super quiet, never heard tube amps so clean. I've had some nice amps, both SS and tube, but nothing that sounds like these McIntosh. Special mojo output transformers? Dunno. Just know they are glorious.
So, based on my limited experience, McIntosh ownership has been very satisfying.
 
W9TR said:
I think judging a brand by its 50 year old offerings, restored or unrestored, is only valid if those are the only pieces you may be interested in owning.


McIntosh has moved on from the sound of those early units. Modern McIntosh electronics perform very well objectively and they sound great to me.

Cost of ownership has been negative for me with their amps and preamps. I have been able to sell them for more than I paid. Values are generally holding with time. Source gear and pre/pros - you will lose your shirt, just like other brands.

There are more esoteric brands that use capacitors rolled on the thighs of Nicaraguan virgins, resistors fired in the flames of Käzäd-Düm, etc. You won’t find any of that in a McIntosh product. Just good engineering and a consistent design language (love it or hate it) that allows you to mix and match gear across a few decades.

One other thing - they answer the phone, and can get you parts for most of their older gear.
Click to expand...

McIntosh couldn't repair my MR-78, sent it to Richard Modafferi for repair and update, $450 later it was the best tuner I've ever heard. Pulling in the uncompressed signal from Berkley presented an absolutely holographic image like I've never heard from any FM source, just outstanding.

All went in the great sell off of 2012 when my bride passed, who knows, maybe someday I'll get some Mac gear again. It's a real bargain when you consider like buying a Ferrari it will always be worth more than you paid for it.
 
My exposure to Max gear was a plié of classic gear my friend’s dad had. It sounded nice but looked very “old” to me. I never got on with the Mac esthetic.

I think if the price of admission was lower, they would be more popular. That said, I have deep respect for them NOT compromising to meet a price point.
 
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