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McIntosh VS Audio Research?

erniejade

erniejade

Active Member
I am not sure where I should post this questions because it is tube vs SS. I currently have a McIntosh C-39 preamp. This preamp has stood head to head and come out on top many times against a ton of preamps out there.

Lately I have been thinking should I try a tube audio research like a sp8 9 10 15 or 16? How would it hold up against the McIntosh? I know 2 completely different sounds that is for sure but, while the McIntosh and Audio Research are both on the warm side of the sound spectrum, what would I gain from changing? or is this close to a wash outside of tube rolling and tube maintenance? I prefer a warmer sound, sharp clean highs and fast mid-range.

Rest of the system it would be with is, Pioneer PD-D9 cd/sacd, W4s dac2, Technics 1200/ denon dl160, sunfire signature II amp, legacy focus speakers. So with the rest of the system, is it worth trying a audio research instead of the McIntosh?

I would have to sell one to get the other one so I would not be able to have them side by side.

Now I did consider just using the w4s dac2 for the preamp but, it doesnt have a analog input on it for the turntable.

Thanks all for the opinions.
 
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Having had some experience with both, I prefer ARC. I especially liked the SP-8. I own neither brand - they are beyond my pay-grade.
 
It seems like with modern Audio Research gear you'd be moving away from the warm side, as compared to McIntosh.
 
Bob_in_OKC said:
It seems like with modern Audio Research gear you'd be moving away from the warm side, as compared to McIntosh.
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The Mcintosh is ss not tube and from around 93-95. The Audio Research like the sp16 is tube, so I figured the AR would be as warm or possibly even warmer vs the McIntosh?
 
erniejade said:
The Mcintosh is ss not tube and from around 93-95. The Audio Research like the sp16 is tube, so I figured the AR would be as warm or possibly even warmer vs the McIntosh?
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I see your point. But something like the SP16 is from the modern era of ARC tube gear, which is more transparent than their older models. My CA50 integrated is from more-recent years and I don't hear obvious warmth. I'm not well-versed in ARC gear, but the stuff I've heard has the character mine has...not clearly identifiable as tubey.
 
The SP-8 has very nice tube bloom, imo. It's why I like it so much. Older, discontinued ARC which typically goes for about $2k used. And yes, the more current models tend to be more neutral.
 
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erniejade said:
The Mcintosh is ss not tube and from around 93-95. The Audio Research like the sp16 is tube, so I figured the AR would be as warm or possibly even warmer vs the McIntosh?
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this is totally correct but ARC sound is faster and has more attack on the note's. a muddy or slow power amp will ruin the presentation so choose well.

eric
 
That makes sense. So even though it is tubes, they are faster than the old and don't have that "slow" tube sound. So then it might sound better than the McIntosh c-39? I am looking for a little bit more deeper sound stage,and a bit sharper on the top end.

I had a jolida cd player that I sold when i got the w4s dac 2. I almost kept the jolida but the pioneer does sacd. I miss some of the wider sound stage that jolida had so I thought to add tubes back in the mix might help but, I want to keep the nice faster - sharper mids and highs vs, rolled off
 
I see your location is IL. Chicago or close enough to make the trip to audition? I'd love to be able to compare ARC to Conrad-Johnson, but I wouldn't know where to find a CJ dealer. Seems like Chicago has everything. :yes:
 
Bob_in_OKC said:
I see your location is IL. Chicago or close enough to make the trip to audition? I'd love to be able to compare ARC to Conrad-Johnson, but I wouldn't know where to find a CJ dealer. Seems like Chicago has everything. :yes:
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LOL True tooo true but, I am looking on the used market. I was tempted on ebay to get a cj pv8, but then i started researching more and for the same price, i can get the sp16. On the agon, there is one without the phono board for 1300 and one with the phono board for 1600. I do have a pro-ject phonobox se II I can use.

A lot of the dealers around me don't have neither! We do have some good shops in the burbs here like Holm audio. Further up north of me like Morton Grove, there is a AR dealer but they don't carry CJ.
 
Even though I would, like you, be far more interested in used gear, I'd like the opportunity to get a feel for the character of current CJ gear. And with a phono preamp in hand, I'd love to get my hands on something like the ARC LS5.
 
Untill recently I thought all Tubes were warm, slow and distorted. Boy was I wrong.

Admitedly my experience with tubes is limited to my Dynalab Hybred FM tuner that uses a pair of 6922 triodes in the Audio Stage. But I can tell you this is the fastest, most transparent source I have, Very little if any Tube Warmth - as far as Timbre goes. Bass and High Freq extension are 2'nd to none. What it does have few of my SS sources have is a soundstage presence that seams to extend beyound the speakers and foward into the room to surround me. Maybe that's the Tube Magic they talk about.
 
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I have an ARC SP-9 mrkII, a Conrad Johnson PV10a, and a McIntosh C204. I prefer either of the tube preamps to the McIntosh on sound quality... convenience of tone controls not withstanding. I've borrowed some of the newer line stage ARCs from my dealer (he's always trying to get me to "upgrade" something), but I prefer the sound of my old ARC & CJ. I would like the remote control option offered by their newer stuff but, though I hear a difference, I'm not sure the "leaner" sound of their newer "LS" models is an improvement over the "SP" series... and I'm really comparing them to the low end older models, not even a "real" tube model in the case of the SP-9 (it does have a couple tubes in there, but they do very little in the circuit), the SP-14 would be a whole other class. My advice would be, if you want a more "classic tube" sound, I'd suggest a Conrad Johnson PV10 - it's still a very detailed & accurate preamp, but has a bit of the "old tube magic". If you want a little drier sound (in a good way), the ARC SP-9 offers a bit more detail, and still doesn't seem as "lifeless" as I seem to find the Mac. I don't have much McIntosh experience, and none with your particular model, and I actually like my C204... it's a stone reliable, dead quiet, clean, & pleasant sounding unit, and I LOVE the three tone controls, but I always feel more involvement with my system when I'm using one of the tube preamps in it's place.
 
All, thank you for advice.
Frommerstop, for me, I am not sure if I should go older or newer. I do like a fast clean mid but, again, i think I am missing the wide sound stage / bloom of the jolida tube cd player ( i had EI tubes in it) I used to have a carver c-19 tube preamp before the mcintosh but, the mcintosh actually sounded better than the carver c-19 tube. So i thought, if i go back to a tube pre, it might as well be somehting better than the carver. "lifeless" that is a good way to describe it!!!! While it sounds good it is just there.

So of the 2 tube units you have, you prefer the CJ over the AR? It looks like the sp16 i am looking at would give me the more "analytical" sound vs the clean tube wide sound stage I am looking for. So if I stick with ar, look for somehting like the sp 14 and not the sp16? I know i should have bid on the cj pv10A that went for like 650$ on ebay. shoot.

musichal, I took a look for sp8 I actually by accident saw the reviews for the LS 8 and not the SP8 the sp8 the SP8 looks great.

All, How close is the SP8 to the SP9? On audiogon, there is a SP9 mkII for 825. Would the SP9 be a better choice for me vs the sp16 i was looking at? For the CJ, it looks like the Classic is reasonably priced even for new. And there is a 10 on ebay right now.

TOO many choices.

Remeber, whatever gets chosen will be teamed up with with a sunfire signature II 625x2 amp, and Legacy focus speakers.
 
erniejade said:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-research-sp9-preamplifier-guy-lemcoe-1290-part-4

MKII also not so hot on the reviews. Maybe different tubes might change that though?
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The MkIII is supposed to be the one to get. Prices for a MkIII are higher than the first generation though. TAS reviews stated the SP9 could be bright depending on associated equipment (TAS reviews are not available on-line)

I ended up going with an Audible Illusions Modulus 3, which seemed to have no really bad reviews that I could find.
 
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