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McIntosh VS Audio Research?

My SP-9 has been upgraded twice. I bought the first version and had it upgraded as they became available. The MKIII version sounds very different from the original. It's also much better than the MKII version
 
If you like tubes, you might want to consider a Conrad Johnson Preamp as well. My favorite ARC is the SP-8. Most of the ARCs more recent designs sound less tubey.
 
To dismiss the SP-9s (all variants) out of hand is to do yourself a great injustice. I've listened to the original, and the mrkIII, as well as having used a mrkII for many years, and they are all very good sounding preamps. I've read the reviews, and they are not THAT negative... at least not any from the major mags. For the most part they seemed to raise issues subtle nuances of it's sound, certainly nothing that should chase you off of even considering one - especially used!
I have several preamps (Quicksilver, CJ, ARC, Luxman, McIntosh, Spectral, Daynaco), and have played with many more. I wouldn't be using an SP-9 in one of my systems (Sota Sapphire, Sony NS999ES, ARC SP-9mrkII, Luxman B-12s, Quad ESL-63) if I didn't think it held it's own. Yes, in some systems I prefer the CJ - it's currently driving a MV52 & Allison 2s at my cottage, and it sounds great in that system. Is the CJ "better" than the ARC? I wouldn't say that - different yes, and a better choice with some equipment... but not necessarily better with any & all amps or speakers.
I've listened to an SP-8, but only in a dealer system, and though it sounded very good, I couldn't tell exactly what was attributable to the pre over any other variables.

PV10s, and SP-9s both tend to be very good deals used IMO, which one I would recommend, would depend on the speakers & amp I was pairing it with, and what change in sound I was looking for.
 
A CJ PV10 is what I would use as an alternative to my SP-9. It's more "tubey" sounding. It's not really better or worse just different.
 
erniejade said:
All, thank you for advice.
musichal, I took a look for sp8 I actually by accident saw the reviews for the LS 8 and not the SP8 the sp8 the SP8 looks great.

All, How close is the SP8 to the SP9? On audiogon, there is a SP9 mkII for 825. Would the SP9 be a better choice for me vs the sp16 i was looking at? For the CJ, it looks like the Classic is reasonably priced even for new. And there is a 10 on ebay right now.
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To my ears, the original SP-9's sonics did not hold a candle to the sound of the SP-8 in direct comparison when the SP-9's came to the store. The SP-9 wasn't horrible or bad, but I found the SP-8 exemplary. Can't comment on later SP-9 versions, as I have not heard them. We also sold Mc, and while I highly respect that venerable badge for its excellent build quality, longevity in the market-place, resale value, and signature styling, I never heard any of their SS pre-amps that bested an SP-8 for sound quality, IMO. An SP-8 would certainly make my short-list for auditioning/consideration along with a couple others recommended here, were I looking at pre-amps in this price-range.
 
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musichal said:
To my ears, the original SP-9's sonics did not hold a candle to the sound of the SP-8 in direct comparison when the SP-9's came to the store. The SP-9 wasn't horrible or bad, but I found the SP-8 exemplary. Can't comment on later SP-9 versions, as I have not heard them. We also sold Mc, and while I highly respect that venerable badge for its excellent build quality, longevity in the market-place, resale value, and signature styling, I never heard any of their SS pre-amps that bested an SP-8 for sound quality, IMO. An SP-8 would certainly make my short-list for auditioning/consideration along with a couple others recommended here, were I looking at pre-amps in this price-range.
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For gear at this price-range, if the sound isn't totally-knocking your socks off, then IMO you really-need to try something different.
 
Thanks everyone for all the help on this. It is always hard when you can't hear it all side by side. I think I have it down to either the sp14 or sp16. they both are about the same price but the 16 is a newer design. Anyone have any preference between the 14 and 16?
 
I consider the SP-14 one of the finest sounding preamp available. I'm of the mind that preamps & phono cartidges are the most audible variables of the electronics - nearly as much as speakers, in a good system. Unfortunately, more often than not, it's very hard to make direct comparisons, that's why there are always so many good used components on the market. I have drawers full of phono cartridges, and shelves of preamps that sound "good", but aren't quite what I'm looking for. I haven't listened to the SP-16, but I like Audio Research, and I like most of what they make (at least that I've heard), if I had an SP-14, I wouldn't be looking any further - it's THAT good.
Funny thing about speakers, preamps, and cartridges though, they all have such an influence on a particular system that no one can really say for sure which is going to be "best"...until you try them. It's time consuming, and expensive, but there's no other way.
 
McIntosh gear has generally struck me as lush, warm, and relaxed, while ARC gear generally seems drier and more neutral.
 
Frommerstop, I agree 100000% with what you are saying on the equipment, preamps, and what is going to be best in your system. In the last 5 or 6 years, I have gone though at least 15 pairs of speakers trying to find the best fit for my living room. Besides the speakers, the source ( pre, turntable, cd, dac) has a lot to do with the sound. The sp16 is a 6 tube ( 3 in the pre 3 in the phono if you have the phono part) vs the 14 is a 1 tube. Both have fantastic reviews and the price on them are the same. From Hi FI news ".I would suggest that the SP16 leapfrogs backwards, over the SP9, SP14 and SP15 to Johnson's greatest achievements: the SP10 and SP11. It shows traces of their warmth and emulates their glorious soundstages, while emulating on their precision.""


Asindc, I never thought arc would be dry considering its tubes? I am hopping to put a better soundstage like i had when i was running the jolida tube cd player. When I got the w4s dac2, I think it does sound a bit faster, better but, it seems to be missing some of the bloom or wider soundstage the jolida had so, I thought by changing out the C-39 with an ARC, it would help put that back into the system?

BTW I sitll have that 45 of queen!!!!!! and the LP with the poster.
 
Funny how so many people start out with the presumption that tube gear is innately balanced toward the warm side. I hear differences between my SS and tube set ups to be sure, but tonal balance is not one of them.

The CJ PV12 is also a very fine pre and worthy of consideration. I'm not sure what they are selling for these days, but I got mine for a song and that was quite a few years ago now.
 
erniejade said:
Frommerstop, I agree 100000% with what you are saying on the equipment, preamps, and what is going to be best in your system. In the last 5 or 6 years, I have gone though at least 15 pairs of speakers trying to find the best fit for my living room. Besides the speakers, the source ( pre, turntable, cd, dac) has a lot to do with the sound. The sp16 is a 6 tube ( 3 in the pre 3 in the phono if you have the phono part) vs the 14 is a 1 tube. Both have fantastic reviews and the price on them are the same. From Hi FI news ".I would suggest that the SP16 leapfrogs backwards, over the SP9, SP14 and SP15 to Johnson's greatest achievements: the SP10 and SP11. It shows traces of their warmth and emulates their glorious soundstages, while emulating on their precision.""


Asindc, I never thought arc would be dry considering its tubes? I am hopping to put a better soundstage like i had when i was running the jolida tube cd player. When I got the w4s dac2, I think it does sound a bit faster, better but, it seems to be missing some of the bloom or wider soundstage the jolida had so, I thought by changing out the C-39 with an ARC, it would help put that back into the system?

BTW I sitll have that 45 of queen!!!!!! and the LP with the poster.
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My opinion of ARC gear comes primarily from comparing ARC preamps in my system to Cary, Arcam, and Pass preamps in my system, as well the same comparisons in a buddy's system. Incidentally, the same friend sold me my SLP-05 and has the ARC Ref 5 in his system. I liked the Cary more than the Ref 3 he used to have, while he preferred the opposite. He also has Martin Logan speakers.

You have the poster for Fat Bottomed Girls? Lucky dog...:D
 
If you wanted a wide soundstage you should have kept the Carvers that you traded to me! lol

Just wanted to say hello, I recognized your screen name.
 
HEY how have you been? Man I still cannot get the same sound out of anything since I converted the basement and put it all in the living room. Since then I have gone through at least 10 pais of speakers in that short of time trying to get the same sound I had in the basement with the carver amazings! So frustrating. Next up might be either some kind of room correction device or change the 3/4" padded carpet to hardwood. Probably the same cost between changing it to hardwood or the room correction.... Although one will add more value to the townhouse LOL.

Gald to see you are still around and your sub is on HT duty in the den teamed up with Polk RTI12 for fronts.
 
Nice! I should have kept that sub. lol

We have some threads going on around here about proper room correction and things of that nature, take a peek and see if you have any input. FWIW, I run an Audio Research solid state preamp and I find it to be a very good pre. If the ARC tube units are like my SS one at all you will find them to be nicely detailed. One of my favorite attributes.

Evan
 
Thanks for the 411. So many preamp choices out there and since we cant hear them side by side on our own system, it makes it hard to choose. BAT is another one that is on the checkout list.
 
There really are too many preamp options to realistically try them all, but at the risk of clouding the water even further, if you get a chance to try an original Quicksilver "full function preamp", it is probably the best all tube pre I've listened to. Slightly warm, but very detailed, with the quietest background of any tube unit I've heard. It's phono section is really excellent as well. It's dual volume controls are an "acquired taste" however.

...this isn't mine - too lazy to take a pic of mine, but this is what it looks like.
quicksilver.jpg
 
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