MDA1000 vs C500 vs 402 as the next upgrade?
- Thread starter anton
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Stereopal
Rick@Stereopal.com
Sonus Faber loves Juice. MC402 will give you the Juice. MC501s will give you even more juice. The MC301 is a super sounding unit and will drive the amps without any problems.
I never thought I'll benefit too much going from 200W to 2000W, especially when i have to give up on tubes. But Power Corrupts and Absolutely Power Corrupts Absloutely ! Once you've Power, you'll never want to give it up !
No Juice No Fun ! In this case, 402 is the answer
I never thought I'll benefit too much going from 200W to 2000W, especially when i have to give up on tubes. But Power Corrupts and Absolutely Power Corrupts Absloutely ! Once you've Power, you'll never want to give it up !
No Juice No Fun ! In this case, 402 is the answer
Daytripper
Active Member
Have those of you recommending better speakers ever listened to well set up Mcintosh driven (mc402, c2300, mcd201) pair of sf gp ver2 speakers? You might be mighty surprised is all I can say:scratch2:
Robert
Robert
Agreed. The SF GP are a wonderful speaker and only sound better with better quality gear. I've heard them with NAD integrated followed by Musical Fidelity seperates and it was day and night difference. Excellent speakers for the money. :thmbsp:
I was very smitten with the GPs as well when I auditioned them. I must say that, depending on source material, I found their warmer and more "forgiving" sonic signature (when compared to the more expensive SF lines) could be quite an asset.
Congratulations on finding a speaker you really like and kudos for wanting to feed it the best possible signal.
Alberto
anton
Active Member
That's exactly why I didn't go for Cremona's a while ago. It was impressive on first listen but nearly as warm and "forgiving" as Grand Piano. Of course I'm talking about GP Home, not the latest Domus line (which I think sucks big time).
william.keith
Super Member
The gp is near the bottom of the sf food chain. Even though it is a full range floor standing speaker, it is only rated at 200 watts. Based on past comments and reviews by sf owners herein, I always got the impression there was a stark difference between the top and bottom.
anton
Active Member
William.keith, I didn't compare it to the floorstanding Cremona, but I was considering the highly acclaimed Cremona Auditor at one time and was comparing it to Concerto Home which is a bookshelf version of Grand Piano with a very similari sound character. As much as I was wowed by Cremona's "audiophile nirvana" holographic sound I much prefered Concerto's warm and musical style. Maybe not as revealing as Cremona but more up my valley for extended music listening. I still consider myself to be more a music lover than an audiophile and I want my ears to relax.
You are correct, the Cremona line is more revealing. Sonus Faber IMHO, has intentionally designed their different lines to mate best with gear proportionate in budget. Thus the Domus or older Home line are smooth, warm and forgiving and they mate well with lower budget gear such as NAD, Rotel, etc.. which are not as grain free and smooth overall as more refined/costly gear out there. The Cremona line is a bit more revealing but when mated with gear with a smooth, grain free sonic signature, the results speak for themselves. The Cremona A's mated with MDA and 501s was extremely musical and enjoyable in my own system. The Homage line, well, give them the best amplification and source signal money can buy and you will have world class performance.
Bravo Anton, I am very much like you - at least 50% of the time
.My Guarneri Homage sound amazing with great source material, but that comes at a price with lesser recordings. Since, in addition to sounding great with the right recordings, the look amazing and are perfect for my room size and style, I decided to deal with the "bad recordings" problem by using a, warm and forgiving, C34V in the tape loop of my C220.
This way, when I am dealing with a harsh or thin recording, I can use the C34V's signature and bag of tricks (5-band EQ, loudness, etc.) to make things sound better. With good recordings, the C34V is completely out of the loop.
A strange solution, but has been working great for me for the past few months.
Alberto
anton
Active Member
You are correct, the Cremona line is more revealing. Sonus Faber IMHO, has intentionally designed their different lines to mate best with gear proportionate in budget. Thus the Domus or older Home line are smooth, warm and forgiving and they mate well with lower budget gear such as NAD, Rotel, etc.. which are not as grain free and smooth overall as more refined/costly gear out there. The Cremona line is a bit more revealing but when mated with gear with a smooth, grain free sonic signature, the results speak for themselves. The Cremona A's mated with MDA and 501s was extremely musical and enjoyable in my own system. The Homage line, well, give them the best amplification and source signal money can buy and you will have world class performance.
Well, the above mentioned comparison was done at the dealers on some serious Moon (IIRC) amps, not exactly a entry level crap like NAD. I would like to give Cremona's a chance and maybe climb up the Sonus Faber ladder the same way as I plan to do with Mac but the sad truth is that I don't have space enough for that. Cremonas' and other higher level SF's cabinets are way too deep (over 40 cm) and they love space between them and the wall. There's only 330 cm between my head and the wall and it's a living room so I can't move the speakers further into the room. Now even Grand Pianos are supposed to suck with only 35 cm from the back wall according to Sonus Faber but they don't. They were sure more dynamic at my previous apartment when they had up to 1 meter behind them but now they somehow manage to throw a very lovely, intimate soundstage between 'em and my ears without any bass problems etc. So if I would upgrade my speakers in the future I would have to choose from the ones which play great near the wall and it's a shame since I love the sound of Mac/SF combo!
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't suggesting a speaker upgrade. If you are happy with the GP's, you should stick to them. A better speaker may not necessarily be better if you can't give it the optimal room and space it needs to sound its best. It may actually sound worse. Nothing like mid/upper bass bloat oblitirating the midrange.
The Cremona A's were very finicky in my room and needed lots of space away from walls to sound their best, same at the dealer where I auditioned them a few times and he has a fully treated room. Your plan to upgrade your gear will pay off. The GP's have lots of potential.
anton
Active Member
Time to ressurect this thread I guess. I'll be picking up 402 shortly anyway and either MDA1000 or C500 so I need to make the choice between MDA and C500. I don't need vinyl (if the CD playback will be transformed to another level with MDA) but I'm still worried if MDA1000 is really that good as a pre. You know 301 sounds huge directly but incredibly harsh. You can't listen to it used as a pre for more than 5 minutes. I'm scared that MDA1000 will give me the same raw and harsh sound, lacking the finesse that a good pre provides. So IS IT REALLY AS GOOD AS 500 AS A PRE?
hkval
Active Member
I used the 301 as a pre and then added the MDA/1000 and used the 301 as a transport. Using the Pre feature on the MDA was dramatically smoother. The MDA is the top of Mac's food chain and it will amaze you. CD's that I had labeled as too harsh, I now can use to show off the stereo. It really is that good.
Anton, I am still working on the MDA1000 VeeView, but some of the words that kept coming up in my listening notes (several pages of it) are: "silky", "refined" and "smooth" (when compared to the MCD201 and other digital sources).
I tried the MDA both with and without a pre-amp (C220 in my case) and I determined that I like it better with the C220. The way I see it is this:
1) The MDA1000 is able to smooth out digital sources without loss of detail.
2) The C220 takes that smoother signal and adds coloration (i.e. distortion, but of a euphonious nature) that I like.
The end result is a less "pure" but more, to my ears, musical and non-fatiguing sound. The ultimate criteria for me is ability to listen to a system for several hours (and with less than perfect recordings) without fatigue; and this combination delivers it for me.
So, if you are anything like me in terms of musical preferences, and I believe you are based on your like of the SF GPs and dislike of harshness, I think that you might end up wanting both the MDA and a pre to achieve the sound you are after.
I hope this helps you in your decision –#even though it removes the either/or option of pre vs. MDA.
Alberto
exracer
music speaks
I hear the Grand Pianos really love the 501 monoblocks....:scratch2:
anton
Active Member
winston1156
Active Member
Klipschpyro
Active Member
For now if you have no analog sources the MDA1000 is a slam dunk winner.
Aside from the cant power it on and off from the remote, it makes a wonderful pre. I love it! Simplify until you can add the C1000 series stuff to complement a 2-channel setup, I would argue...
I have no harshness from my MDA. It is plugged into a 402 feeding the XCS350's, 10 tweeters, zero harshness. It is bigger, louder, more live, and just generally more dynamic than what I could have expected.
I can listen at high levels for a very long time and have zero ear fatigue.
Aside from the cant power it on and off from the remote, it makes a wonderful pre. I love it! Simplify until you can add the C1000 series stuff to complement a 2-channel setup, I would argue...
I have no harshness from my MDA. It is plugged into a 402 feeding the XCS350's, 10 tweeters, zero harshness. It is bigger, louder, more live, and just generally more dynamic than what I could have expected.
I can listen at high levels for a very long time and have zero ear fatigue.