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Mid-fi, Hi-fi... Difference?

You know, I found that to be true, up to a point. When I did my most recent upgrades, especially to my TT, I found that a lot of old vinyl I had sound an incredible amount better. Not the really crap ones, but the average. They all started sounding like 180 gm audiophile vinyl sounded on my old setup. Now the audiophile stuff sounds shockingly good. Surface noise dropped like crazy too. ALl around a good move.

I've also found that to be very true with vinyl, but the exact opposite with CDs. CDs which I thought were not bad (though perhaps not wonderful) can annoy me to the point where I can't play them on my main system now and I have to take them upstairs and listen to them on one of the vintage receiver-based systems where they sound as they always have. I still wouldn't go back to go back to where things were before though, that's for sure!
 
Intresting thread. Personally I have always thought of things as low-end and high-end, with each being a range of performance. If I were to give each a score, low-end would be 1-5 and high-end would be 6-10.

I would rate my current system as a 7.5. It was definitely a 6 before I upgraded pre-amp, CD player, and cables. I put most stuff you will find at BestBuy or CircuitCity in the range of 2-4. To be a 10 one would probably have to spend $70-80K (or more).

For me that range of 6-8 is the sweet spot, or better stated it is where you will find the point of diminishing returns. You get 90+% of the performance of a system that is a 9 or 10, for perhaps 20% of the cost.

One thing I think we should all realize is that for the average guy on the street, ALL of our systems are High-end, hi-fi, 10s and ALL of our systems are way too expensive (ignoring for a second the super deals some of you have found). Most people are simply clueless about how good music can sound, and are blown away when they listen to my system. I find this to be even more true today when most people are listening to either headphones or car stereos.
 
I think mid-fi was a term coined buy high end audio magazines as a snooty put down to reasonably priced Japanese gear.
 
JBL 4311s have the classic "smiley face" frequency response. Boosted
highs, boosted lows, and recessed midrange. This is also referred to as
the "california" sound. This got better about 10 years ago with the
LSR series. Now they are pretty flat.

So, if I set my EQ at +2db at 500hz, +4db at 1kHz, and +2db at 2khz, would that help even it out?
 
In the days these terms were developed, in the '50s and '60s they were not linear. Hi-Fi was a generic term to mean an audio system above the then typical radio, including the floor standers and included more than or the ability to have more than 1 sound source, typically the tuner (well, radio) and record player. There were 4 subsets of hi-fi. Low-fi, mid-fi, high end and esoteric. Esoteric companies usually were making only 1 or 2 products such as Rabco or were so unknown that Joe Average would not generally know the company such as Jecklin and Van Alstine. Esoteric was both a sub set of hi-fi and one of the other subsets; an odd category. While most products fell into the high-end group, they could fall into any of them. High end was those products recognized as producing the best sound and having a somewhat limited distribution such as McIntosh, ARC and Krell. Mid-fi covered probably 20% plus of the market and was the staple of most of the popular audio companies such as Marantz (post-tube), Pioneer, etc. The better companies this group could and did produce sometimes a line or particular models that crossed over into the high end group, i.e. Marantz 500, 510 amps for instance as well as the CA-5000, CA-3000 and BA-3000 Sansui. HK produced the Citation line that generally crossed over to the high end. Low-fi, some times referred to as low end but I think that is a misnomer and was not used as a group back then but as a sub-group of each group of each group, is generally considered products distributed through mass merchandisers or through audio dealers that do not reproduce sound of sufficient quality to meet the needs of persons who use audio systems as a major entertainment source and are sufficiently experienced to notice sonic differences. Some companies concentrated in this market and crossed over into the mid-fi group. Some times they marketed under different names such as Panasonic and Technics, sometimes they made them look substantially different such as Sony. Hence the company itself forced the differentiation while some companies took pains to not differentiate chose to only offer certain models in one group to a dealer. Some companies crossed all 3 groups in some manner such as Sony, Marantz and others.

The problem is this is all smeared as to some equipment made back then as the collecting niche was created persons began to find that many low-fi units were as good as mid-fi units, especially in the low end (ahah) of the mid-fi group. An examples of this could be say the Sony STR 6046A or STR 3600 (think that was the model) receivers designed for distribution through mass merchandisers and only infrequently offered to audio dealers usually as a result of a dealer preparing a major sale and Sony wanted to participate, thin of the midnight madness sales. The 6046A looks quite different than the 6045 mid-fi receiver, low end receiver while sounding as good.

Confused yet? To compound this many persons apply the labels in a subjective manner based on their experiences or spending ability. This is not a condemnation. For instance, I was a lover of Marantz tube equipment and the 18 and 19 receivers. With the introduction or the 2x series many Marantz lovers, including myself considered Marantz had entered into the low end to mid range (at best) and the mid-fi market and Marantz for us became a low-fi company though it more realistically had become a mid-fi name. Also, someone affording and buying an ARC would more than likely consider a Citation amp and preamp as low-end (i.e. low-fi). As well, sometimes a company tries unsuccessfully to go into a new group and fails. McIntosh tried this with the Stereotech receiver. It tried to move into and compete against the better of the mid-fi receivers but the receiver was viewed as a lesser high end unit and competed against the company's 1900 rather than say a Marantz 2270.

Stereophile early on developed an alternative to this marketing / sound derived confusing system with the Class A, B, etc system then based on subjective listening test. Remember back the Stereophile did not accept ads. If there is a grading system, it probably was more reliable and consistent than the other system.

While most of my hobby life, I used high end and high end esoteric equipment within the past few years, the associated myth of sound quality has made me realize it does not mean anything in the vintage market.

Do not know if this helps to explain why it all seems smeared and confusing or only ads to the confusion.
 
Really great post and interesting reading Brian.. but wow.. now my head hurts :D... it does show how it can kind of all smear together like you say, and confuse the lines...

I think you started off withthe best part.. hi-fi was to seperate the philco floor standers from the citation seperates... and so forth... as an example..

All of this has gotten me to thinking now... maybe it isn't the gear so much that is hi-fi, or mid-fi, or even no-fi... but it is really the sound... and if that's the case, then we all know how subjective we can each be to sound.. what one person may relish, my grate on another ear drums... :scratch2:
 
Lets be reasonable, the difference between hi-fi and mid-fi is upwards of $10,000. Beyond that, it's taste.
 
OK.. as an example...

Say we ask McIntosh to put together a system using only their very best equipment. I'm sure not one person would dispute that is Hi-fi... and it would probably sound fantasctic to most all of us...

Then, we take that system, remove their speakers, in their place, put something like some Sansui SP-100's, which I'm sure most here would consider to be mid-fi...

Now.. has that well over $10k system, suddenly became mid-fi, because it is limited by the weakest link in the system, and can't produce what many would be considered a hi-fi sound, or is it still a hi-fi system that sounds not as good as possible?
 
I like to call my system hi-mid-fi.Sometimes when I am really immersed in the music(with a substantial amount of alcohol) it couldn't seem any higher fi.
 
LOL.. I can agree with that 1000% superdog.. some times I sit here at work thinking about how bad I want to hear mine with a few glasses of something to make it sound it's most perfect..

WHich really makes me wonder... since only my inputs, or sources are the only things "consumer" about my system, and some of those are more TOTL, but yet all the rest is pro gear.. I wonder how the hell I would even begin to classify my system.. it sure sounds more hi-fi than anything else I've put together, and more hi-fi than many systems I've heard, but I have never seen pro gear labeled as hi-fi, mid-fi... maybe it's no fi... ...

yep.. this is confusing...
 
The Mc system with the Sansui speakers will be no better than the weakest component soundwise but the individual components themselves do not change in terms of category. Without giving an opinion as to the Sansui speaker but if you are correct, the overall sound may be not better than a well balanced mid-fi system built around the speakers as they are the limiting factor but each Mc component would still be high end. In your example, you may actually end up with a poorer sounding system than a mid-fi system built around the Sansui if you build a mid-fi systm that has synergy and the Mc/Sansui system does not have synergy.

The key to the system is really the component synergy. I've heard some low -fi systems that I prefer listening to for long periods while hi end systems that after an hour are intolerable. Again an example. Take a LT-1 Corvette and the Opel GT. Each a really good car that is well balanced and meets the design goals. Take the engines and swap them to the other car and think about what you have. Probably a VW Carman Ghia (okay so let's make it a Beetle) would be more satisfying an experience than either as the cars no longer have the component synergy they originally had but the individual components are still the same quality, i.e. an LT-1 engine is still a 1st rate engine whether in a Vette or an Opel.

Another example is my office system. A pair of RS Minimus 7s with a Sony TA-5055 and ST1055. A really satisfying system that I can listen to for hours, and I do. But throwing the 7s on my Philips TOTL 797 is not a good match and after an hour or so, I feel the need to rip the speakers out. Yes, I know part of the reason is personal expectations.
 
To me, I envision true high-fi as a no-holds barred attempt at both measurably and subjectively maximizing accuracy, tonal neutrality, and detail. I envision very sophisticated electronics circuits (DAC/premap/amp), paired with very LARGE speakers in a large & acoustically treated room. Top-notch engineering all around is a must. All very expensive stuff.

Now mid-fi is a level of accuracy/fidelity that's good enough for most of us (me included), much higher than consumer grade gear, that may make some concessions towards various forms of euphony (euphonic distortions/colorations). Mid-fi gear should still utilize quality engineering. I don't look down on mid-fi gear, on the contrary I often prefer it over hifi stuff. I recognize that I like a bit of a lush, wet sound. What I don't like to see is mid-fi gear marketed and sold at hifi prices (often with appropriate bling and boutique parts in an attempt to justify it), or even low-fi stuff sold at mid-fi prices! I also don't like mid-fi gear with non-euphonic colorations :p

Recently my tastes have been pushing me towards the best transducers I can afford (upper mid-fi?) paired with squarely mid-fi electronics that contain a slight coloration I like. Vintage electronics are fitting the bill VERY nicely for this. Works for me! :thmbsp:
 
I think mid-fi was a term coined buy high end audio magazines as a snooty put down to reasonably priced Japanese gear.

I agree. I am proudly mid-fi. The necessary placement of the speakers in my bedroom makes it nearly impossible for there to be good imaging. I am using a DJ preamp (Technical Pro), power amp (AudioSource), CD player (Sony), small Sony bookshelf speakers, and a Sony subwoofer. It sounds good to me, and I listen to lots of music. I also have Polk (RTi4) and two pairs of Boston Acoustics (A40 and CS26) bookshelf speakers, but I like the little Sonys right now.

My living room audio/video system is hi-fi, but here in the bedroom and in the kitchen where I do most of my music listening, it is mid-fi all the way. I love to discuss audio gear and learn much on this forum, but I really enjoy getting the most enjoyable sound for the fewest bucks. I wish there was a mid-fi forum, but I have not been able to find one. Peace and goodwill.
 
What people call mid-fi is definitely Hi-Fi as far as I am concerned . Hi-Fi stands for High Fidelity and if I am correct , the reasonably priced Japanese gear is High Fidelity .
 
What people call mid-fi is definitely Hi-Fi as far as I am concerned . Hi-Fi stands for High Fidelity and if I am correct , the reasonably priced Japanese gear is High Fidelity .

I agree. I am proudly mid-fi. The necessary placement of the speakers in my bedroom makes it nearly impossible for there to be good imaging. I am using a DJ preamp (Technical Pro), power amp (AudioSource), CD player (Sony), small Sony bookshelf speakers, and a Sony subwoofer. It sounds good to me, and I listen to lots of music. I also have Polk (RTi4) and two pairs of Boston Acoustics (A40 and CS26) bookshelf speakers, but I like the little Sonys right now.

My living room audio/video system is hi-fi, but here in the bedroom and in the kitchen where I do most of my music listening, it is mid-fi all the way. I love to discuss audio gear and learn much on this forum, but I really enjoy getting the most enjoyable sound for the fewest bucks. I wish there was a mid-fi forum, but I have not been able to find one. Peace and goodwill.


YOU Guys DO realize this thread is 4 years old, don't you? :D :scratch2:
 
Your description of Hi-Fi reminds me of when I used to smoke pot and listen to ANYTHING! LOL!:banana:

As Bluesbassplayer writes: "Another "hi-fi" dimension to consider is all the cool lights and dials and glowing tubes you get on a good 'ol vintage set. That's hi-fi for sure to many here - that's kind of like another branch of the hi-fi experience I think."

With a little microdot, this will "sound" good even with zero volume. :thmbsp:
 
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