Mid Fi to Hi Fi threshold
- Thread starter M1chael
- Start date
Inexpensive great gear!! YES... THAT is what I love too!!I get that its all "hi-fi", like I said its an "individual" thing, for me its means inexpensive great gears like my new, and old, crap is... its Mid-fi at best
Just like records for me are vinyls... its all good, its just hobby slang
There’s more truth here than I wish were the case, but with wine or any other of the vices humans entertain themselves with, some are unwilling to educate themselves.
Wine is a whole lot simpler than audio.
mrehorst
Super Member
With wine, the experts claim they can taste all sorts of stuff as long as they can see the bottle and its label (apparently even if the bottle and label are fakes). In that regard it's a LOT like audio stuff. People claim they can hear all sorts of things until they can't see the electronics that are making the sound. Then suddenly the differences disappear. Must be because of the stress caused by the blind test... What sort of horrible person would submit someone with such delicate, refined taste and sensitivity to something as crude as a blind test?
I remember back in the 90s, there was a machinist who milled very nice enclosures for LM3886 amplifiers, and claimed that he could hear the polarity of the resistors used in his amplifiers and that he had tested all the different combinations of resistor polarity and found the one that sounded best. Just like other self-styled audio "experts", I was never sure if he was a true believer (fooling himself) or engaging in creative marketing (trying to fool others), or maybe a bit of both.
jayvis
Addicted Member
That might be true for a small segment of the market. The "snob" reference is a misguided and lazy overgeneralization used in pretty much everything in our society. Friendships have unfortunately been lost due to some peoples' inability to accept the realities of individual preference, personal accomplishment, and unbalanced wealth. It's another example of people pigeonholing themselves into a made-up and useless demographic battle. We should all be happy with what we have and for what our friends and families have.
I’ve spent enough effort and time pursuing a few very esoteric subjects to accept that my understanding, abilities, and perceptions are greater than many but less than those of others. I don’t pretend to have an omnipotent view about anything—audio, wine, or otherwise. Anyone who does is fooling himself. And I have to accept that even this view is suspect.
DeadRock
Ideas Guy
Well said....errr...thought...and written. I am also that which or as you describe...and more than occasionally...a complete and utter fool....
One of the audio salons that I went to in 1980s Chicago referred to McIntosh as hi-fi gear for dentists
And doctors and lawyers, as well, which makes me a little sheepish admitting that I own and have owned several pieces of McIntosh gear—even though my education terminated at an MFA. (Don’t tell anyone.)One of the audio salons that I went to in 1980s Chicago referred to McIntosh as hi-fi gear for dentists
This is not my understanding of these terms.
Mid-fi is, as mentioned earlier in the thread, really a marketing term to separate High-End (e.g. Audio Research) from mass market (e.g. Pioneer).
Hi-Fi is a shortened version of High Fidelity, which is a set of specifications defined in the late 1940s-early 1950s.
All mid-fi gear is high fidelity.
Not all high-fidelity gear is High End; most is not.
EXACTLY!!! An this is why "mid-fi" does not exist, except as an advertising gimmick. It is a term, I do believe, wasn't even around until the late 1970s or early 1980s.
Kirk hit the nail on the head.
Gigantic
A big, big love
I dropped out of grad school a semester before achieving the MA portion of my MFA program, but I've also owned a McIntosh: it was a 275 that I picked up at a yard sale for $100, back in 1992. Ironically, I sold it to pay my grad school tuition, along with a number of vintage Gibson and Fender guitars and amps. I should have dropped out sooner; I would at least have had some great gear.
jayvis
Addicted Member
I think that's the case for both sides, snobs and envious people. Snobbery and envy are two traits that are human nature, and one leads to the other. Unfortunately, some people can never outgrow them.
Well, there are label whores who can afford to and do buy the most expensive and/or lauded/“best” brands of anything—without much knowledge or research or even personal interest or passion about the product. I’ve known some people like this. They go into a store and ask, “What’s the ‘best’?” “What’s the most expensive?”
They buy the Rolls Royce or the Maybach, etc., in part because of what it says about them. (Or they buy the McIntosh.)
And then there are people who have invested an enormous amount of time and attention to, say, audio equipment (or automobiles or watches or wine or woodworking tools or cookware, or furniture, or art, or musical instruments, or clothing, or or or), for example, and who have owned and auditioned and listened to and investigated and invested in many pieces of audio gear—and who, because of this, have empirical knowledge and opinions about what is “best” to and for them and why. They’re passionate. They’ve done the homework. They still might end up with the McIntosh.
Both of these groups can come across as snobs/elites (fill in the blank). The person who buys a Rolls simply because he can afford to and because he was told it was the “best” of its class of car may have arrived at owning a Rolls through a different path—received wisdom/snobbery/vanity—from the person who has spent his lifetime assessing automobiles and eventually decided that he must own the Rolls because, having worked on and owned and investigated countless automobiles, he has come to the hard-won conclusion that it is the ultimate driving machine. (If you’ve ever driven or even ridden in a Rolls—and paid close attention to the experience—you’ll never forget it.)
But in the end, they both have a Rolls. And, in the end—through the very fact of owning a Rolls—they both eventually form empirical opinions about Rolls Royces (if they bother to pay attention).
And then there is another group of people who—for whatever reasons—label anyone driving a Rolls (or owning a piece of McIntosh) as a stupid, rich, know-nothing snob obsessed with trophies and brand names and labels who knows absolutely nothing about cars (or audio) and deserves any and all forms of hate and ridicule.
***
My cousin owned the “best”/most expensive furniture store in his area. A woman once came in who loved a white couch he had for sale. But she told him that, as much as she liked it, she was “looking for something a little more expensive” or that she “was hoping to spend a little more.” He went into the storeroom and had his staff roll out the very same model of couch—but marked at twice the price of the floor model. “I’ll take it,” she said.
They buy the Rolls Royce or the Maybach, etc., in part because of what it says about them. (Or they buy the McIntosh.)
And then there are people who have invested an enormous amount of time and attention to, say, audio equipment (or automobiles or watches or wine or woodworking tools or cookware, or furniture, or art, or musical instruments, or clothing, or or or), for example, and who have owned and auditioned and listened to and investigated and invested in many pieces of audio gear—and who, because of this, have empirical knowledge and opinions about what is “best” to and for them and why. They’re passionate. They’ve done the homework. They still might end up with the McIntosh.
Both of these groups can come across as snobs/elites (fill in the blank). The person who buys a Rolls simply because he can afford to and because he was told it was the “best” of its class of car may have arrived at owning a Rolls through a different path—received wisdom/snobbery/vanity—from the person who has spent his lifetime assessing automobiles and eventually decided that he must own the Rolls because, having worked on and owned and investigated countless automobiles, he has come to the hard-won conclusion that it is the ultimate driving machine. (If you’ve ever driven or even ridden in a Rolls—and paid close attention to the experience—you’ll never forget it.)
But in the end, they both have a Rolls. And, in the end—through the very fact of owning a Rolls—they both eventually form empirical opinions about Rolls Royces (if they bother to pay attention).
And then there is another group of people who—for whatever reasons—label anyone driving a Rolls (or owning a piece of McIntosh) as a stupid, rich, know-nothing snob obsessed with trophies and brand names and labels who knows absolutely nothing about cars (or audio) and deserves any and all forms of hate and ridicule.
***
My cousin owned the “best”/most expensive furniture store in his area. A woman once came in who loved a white couch he had for sale. But she told him that, as much as she liked it, she was “looking for something a little more expensive” or that she “was hoping to spend a little more.” He went into the storeroom and had his staff roll out the very same model of couch—but marked at twice the price of the floor model. “I’ll take it,” she said.
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This is the second time that you have responded a post I’ve made advocating for the DBT protocol. I’ve never expressed my views on that subject on this website, so in the interest of full disclosure I‘ll do so now, once and once only.
Please know that it is my considered assessment that the entire DBT protocol as commonly advocated is devoid of any trace of efficacy, much less supported as being some kind of valid scientific inquiry procedure. I regard the entire idea as specious in the extreme. A first year lab student knows or better learn very quickly that confounding variables can and do render the apparent results of any experiment meaningless, and DBT is rife with them, ranging from variations in RFI, dirty power, and acoustics in a given system to the discernment and experience of the listener. Yet, as a proponent of this flawed protocol you have the cheek to dismiss someone who rejects your dogma as a “true believer“ who is “fooling himself”. Frankly, I find the myopic arrogance of this statement to be stunning. You, and you alone, are possessed of the necessary discernment to determine how to effectively determine the efficacy of audio components? It’s unsurprising that proponents of this silliness meet with vitriolic responses in this and other social media. I’m reminded of the common definition of chutzpah - one who murders his parents, then appeals to the mercy of the court because he’s an orphan.
You certainly have the right to believe so fervently in the DBT if that is your choice, but when you dismiss other hobbyists as “true believers” that are “fooling themselves” simply because they reject what I perceive as your inherently flawed ideology, you can expect to be similarly dismissed, and justifiably so. I use other methods to evaluate equipment that I have developed over many years. On more than one occasion, my hearing impaired partner asked me what I had done upstairs because she heard a significant improvement in sound. She was completely unaware that I was going to do anything at all, much less exactly what it was. On one occasion, it was a set of interconnects. On another, a power cord.
In some ways, I feel sorry for you and others that believe so completely in the DBT. I’m clear that you’ll never experience music so realistically reproduced in a home environment that you completely lose your sense of self in it, because you insist on evaluating things in isolation rather than as an interactive system, and you deny the efficacy of things that have been proven in my experience to be effective. You certainly have the right to doom yourself to mediocrity if you so choose, but don’t expect those of us who really appreciate good sound to join you there.
Peace, over and out.
Getting a bit heated here guys.....
While I fully well understand AND respect the passion a discussion such as this brings about, please let's not loose sight of the fact that we are all gentlemen (and gentlewomen) having a friendly discussion with regards to our own particular views toward what constitutes the dividing line between "Mid Fi" and "High Fi". Everyone is allowed to have their own beliefs & opinions, and even to state them in a civil manner. When it comes, however, to using those opinions to bludgeon the fellow posters, well, that's when someone like me has gotta step in and ask, nicely, for a bit of civility to carry forward for the remainder of the discussion. Not singling anyone out, just a plea for a bit of mutual respect for other's ideas/beliefs.
Not too much to ask, I hope?
While I fully well understand AND respect the passion a discussion such as this brings about, please let's not loose sight of the fact that we are all gentlemen (and gentlewomen) having a friendly discussion with regards to our own particular views toward what constitutes the dividing line between "Mid Fi" and "High Fi". Everyone is allowed to have their own beliefs & opinions, and even to state them in a civil manner. When it comes, however, to using those opinions to bludgeon the fellow posters, well, that's when someone like me has gotta step in and ask, nicely, for a bit of civility to carry forward for the remainder of the discussion. Not singling anyone out, just a plea for a bit of mutual respect for other's ideas/beliefs.
Not too much to ask, I hope?
I've always been of the impression that mid-fi was simply better-than-entry-level hi-fi, NAD, Nakamichi, the more impressive Pioneer, Kenwood, Technics, etc. I just never understood why people think that mid-fi is somehow an insult, or, at best, a back-handed compliment. It means that you're willing to spend more to get more.
But not necessarily willing to mortgage your home for new speakers. Hopefully.......
But not necessarily willing to mortgage your home for new speakers. Hopefully.......