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Mid Fi to Hi Fi threshold

jayvis said:
That might be true for a small segment of the market. The "snob" reference is a misguided and lazy overgeneralization used in pretty much everything in our society. Friendships have unfortunately been lost due to some peoples' inability to accept the realities of individual preference, personal accomplishment, and unbalanced wealth. It's another example of people pigeonholing themselves into a made-up and useless demographic battle. We should all be happy with what we have and for what our friends and families have.
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I am happy and happy for you being happy. I’m only referring to people who spend more than they need for a peice of gear just to impress others.
 
2FarGone said:
This is the second time that you have responded a post I’ve made advocating for the DBT protocol. I’ve never expressed my views on that subject on this website, so in the interest of full disclosure I‘ll do so now, once and once only.

Please know that it is my considered assessment that the entire DBT protocol as commonly advocated is devoid of any trace of efficacy, much less supported as being some kind of valid scientific inquiry procedure. I regard the entire idea as specious in the extreme. A first year lab student knows or better learn very quickly that confounding variables can and do render the apparent results of any experiment meaningless, and DBT is rife with them, ranging from variations in RFI, dirty power, and acoustics in a given system to the discernment and experience of the listener. Yet, as a proponent of this flawed protocol you have the cheek to dismiss someone who rejects your dogma as a “true believer“ who is “fooling himself”. Frankly, I find the myopic arrogance of this statement to be stunning. You, and you alone, are possessed of the necessary discernment to determine how to effectively determine the efficacy of audio components? It’s unsurprising that proponents of this silliness meet with vitriolic responses in this and other social media. I’m reminded of the common definition of chutzpah - one who murders his parents, then appeals to the mercy of the court because he’s an orphan.

You certainly have the right to believe so fervently in the DBT if that is your choice, but when you dismiss other hobbyists as “true believers” that are “fooling themselves” simply because they reject what I perceive as your inherently flawed ideology, you can expect to be similarly dismissed, and justifiably so. I use other methods to evaluate equipment that I have developed over many years. On more than one occasion, my hearing impaired partner asked me what I had done upstairs because she heard a significant improvement in sound. She was completely unaware that I was going to do anything at all, much less exactly what it was. On one occasion, it was a set of interconnects. On another, a power cord.

In some ways, I feel sorry for you and others that believe so completely in the DBT. I’m clear that you’ll never experience music so realistically reproduced in a home environment that you completely lose your sense of self in it, because you insist on evaluating things in isolation rather than as an interactive system, and you deny the efficacy of things that have been proven in my experience to be effective. You certainly have the right to doom yourself to mediocrity if you so choose, but don’t expect those of us who really appreciate good sound to join you there.

Peace, over and out.
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At the risk of sounding like a dummy
What is a DBT
 
Bushikan said:
Well, there are label whores who can afford to and do buy the most expensive and/or lauded/“best” brands of anything—without much knowledge or research or even personal interest or passion about the product. I’ve known some people like this. They go into a store and ask, “What’s the ‘best’?” “What’s the most expensive?”

They buy the Rolls Royce or the Maybach, etc., in part because of what it says about them. . .
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I never bought a Rolls Royce, but I remember wanting one simply because of watching Walter Brennan drive one around in a movie called The Gnome Mobile.
 
Natasha Bell said:
I know individuals like that... I am not, at all, a fan of Bose, especially the stadium-lights inspired 901s, but for those who like them :) Marantz is a great manufacturer, that has produced wonderful products over countless years... Mark Levinson, Conrad Johnson, and Audio Research are also phenomenal for the most part. I have this saying: Buy the best you can afford, with in reason, and you will not be disappointed. I could probably swing Mark Levinson, Conrad Johnson, and Audio Research products if I go on a strict no-food, water only diet, and turn-off my air conditioner completely... I simply do not wish to afford them. My father-in-law, who is a quite wealthy man, has gotten back into stereos several years ago. He has a Mark Levinson SACD player. It's extremely nice... But, in all honesty, I cannot hear the difference between it and my Marantz SA-8005. My Marantz I purchased used three years ago, and it was 1/10th of what Paul paid for his Mark Levinson. :oops::idea:

The whole thing is like someone, well, like my sister: "I drive a Mercedes-Benz." with her nose-up in the air, while I drive a little Nissan truck. Her Mercedes, although it's a lower line model, is very nice, and has that fabulous three-pointed star... YET, I get my husband to change the oil in my Frontier for around $20-25 or so, while she just complained to me spending $199.99 for an oil change at Mercedes. I told her: Well, if you can afford a Mercedes, you can afford the maintenance (at least she does the maintenance). :rflmao:
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I am very, very well aware of your profound dislike for Bose—and, especially, “the stadium-lights inspired 901s” (I don’t know what this reference even means)—since you refer to your personal dislike for all things Bose quite often.

But I have to wonder: Why? Have you ever owned/lived with a pair of Bose 901s? How long have you ever even listened to them? And in what conditions/context? What was your horrible experience with these speakers that has made them a cause for your crusade against them? Were you kidnapped by Amar Bose, locked up in a room, and forced to listen to 901s?

I don’t think the Bose 901s are the be-all / end-all of speakers, certainly. But, in 1978, when I was looking for speakers, they were a reasonable choice for my needs.

I bought two pair of 901 IVs and used them professionally, as a mobile DJ. I’ve heard them in just about every possible kind of room (even outdoors) and in nearly every possible context. When I used my Bose 901s to run sound for a Sun Ra performance, he told me they produced the best sound for his Arkestra he had ever heard. They have faults, certainly. They aren’t perfect. (What speaker is?) But they do what they do quite well.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
 
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Bushikan said:
I am very, very well aware of your profound dislike for Bose—and, especially, “the stadium-lights inspired 901s” (I don’t know what this reference even means)—since you refer to your personal dislike for all things Bose quite often.

But I have to wonder: Why? Have you ever owned/lived with a pair of Bose 901s? How long have you ever even listened to them? And in what conditions/context? What was your horrible experience with these speakers that has made them a cause for your crusade against them? Were you kidnapped by Amar Bose, locked up in a room, and forced to listen to 901s?

I don’t think the Bose 901s are the be-all / end-all of speakers, certainly. But, in 1978, when I was looking for speakers, they were a reasonable choice for my needs.

I bought two pair of 901 IVs and used them professionally. I’ve heard them in just about every possible kind of room (even outdoors) and in nearly every possible context. When I used my Bose 901s to run sound for a Sun Ra performance, he told me they produced the best sound he had ever had. They have faults, certainly. They aren’t perfect. (What speaker is?) But they do what they do quite well.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
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That is a very good question... Have I owned a pair of 901s? No, I have not. I have been around folks who have owned (and still do own) them. I have always found that particular Bose speaker rather uninspiring. As far as the "stadium lights", I am of course referring to the arrangement of drivers with the 901s in comparison to the lighting arrays in many stadiums. The 901s I have heard were all in good condition, and well taken care of. I just did not find them adequate for cost. The owners, however, enjoy them a lot. I guess that is the real measure of things.

It is the "faults" of the 901s you speak of. There are just, for me, many better choices out there. Those that I have heard, sounded dull. I was expecting better. :idea:

I have owned 201s and 301s... and very, very briefly had the use of a pair of 8.2. The 201s and 301s were used and gifted to me. Although I was very appreciative of the gift (always am), their preformed poorly, and were replaced because of it. The latter, the 8.2s, were very nice. In fact, and I have stated it often, I would love to have a pair of 10.2s, Finding a pair of these speakers, in good condition, at a reasonable price is the problem. I would absolutely love to have a set, although I think my Adcom 565 mono blocs may mangle them if I am not careful. :)
 
My .02?

Who cares?

Hi-fi, mid-fi, low-fi, or mono. If you like it, not much else matters.

All this "labelling" is just for marketing or others purposes.

I suppose most of my stuff would be labeled mid-fi (Sansui 8080DB, Dual and Technics turntables, Pioneer deck, Polk RTI-a5's, 8" power sub, etc) but I really don't care. That's a label for people to just "pigeon-hole" other people. For whatever their purpose is (IE: sales, ego, or whatever).

I despise "labels". I reject them all. People are people and stuff is stuff. Simple.

I like what I've got. Sounds good to me. What else matters?

:)
 
tourmax said:
My .02?

Who cares?

Hi-fi, mid-fi, low-fi, or mono. If you like it, not much else matters.

All this "labelling" is just for marketing or others purposes.

I suppose most of my stuff would be labeled mid-fi (Sansui 8080DB, Dual and Technics turntables, Pioneer deck, Polk RTI-a5's, 8" power sub, etc) but I really don't care. That's a label for people to just "pigeon-hole" other people. For whatever their purpose is (IE: sales, ego, or whatever).

I despise "labels". I reject them all. People are people and stuff is stuff. Simple.

I like what I've got. Sounds good to me. What else matters?

:)
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Ok, I will label you as a ‘don’t care’ then.

Thats a joke…
 
DeadRock said:
...would that it were so simple...;)
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It is. For yourself. It's a life choice. Label yourself and others or just take them as they are.

Can't control what others do though.

"Labeling theory" is actually a psychological concept. There's a boatload of issues with/about it.

Labeling people closes your mind. Rejecting labels means you are always open to possibilities and re-examining your "truths".

Lead men/women in any endeavour and you learn very quickly that "labels"aren't a "plus", they're a negative....
 
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On a personal level what I consider Hi Fi is easy to understand. Low fi is almost any sound system that is in an "All In One Format." If your AM, FM radio, Turntable, CD player, 8 track, cassette deck and speakers are all integrated into the same box that's low fi. Low fi is not about maintaining the integrity and fidelity of the sound as the artist had meant it to be heard. Low Fi is all about providing convenience to the listener who has low to no audiophile worthy requirements for their listening pleasure.

For me Hi Fi is anyone who invests the most money they can afford into getting the best quality receivers, integrated amplifiers or true separates possible. If someone is on the quest of creating the best quality sound system that they can afford then for that individual they have achieved the realm of hi fi in their situation. Thus a person with millions to spend on gear will by definition achieve a greater hi fi experience than a poor man like me with no more than 4 thousand 2025 US Dollars to spend or a piece of vintage audio gear at any given outing.

So my definition of what constitutes hi fi depends on what I can afford to spend on the systems and gear I invest in. For me hi fi is not about the price tag it is about the intent and effort of the audiophile in question. Certainly more expensive gear changes the sound experience but buying the best gear one can afford demonstrates audiophile intent or apirations. In my world "True Audiophiles" intentionally invest all efforts and funds they can afford to create the most sophisticated, accurate, curated and authentic sound system possible within their respective means. In my humble opinion all the resulting systems born of audiophile intent are then by definition unique variations of "Hi Fi Systems" curated to appeal to differing but equally discerning tastes.

The simple way of saying everything I shared above is the following. When it comes to what constitutes audiophile quality "Hi Fi" systems I don't believe in any form of gate keeping or gear \ spec based elitism. I think this hobby is a huge tent where all who aspire to unique and awesome audio experiences has their place. I revel in everyone's shared audiophile journey on Audio Karma. I enjoy posts by people whose collections drawf mine in every way. I love seeing how the other half lives gear wise. I stand in awe of someone who can afford and enjoy the differences in quality made by $25,000 separates and $30,000 speakers. I look at someone's $30,000 speakers and instantly become my teenaged self saying WOW in awe and wonder. Enjoying someones audio gear quality at levels I can never hope to achieve does not make me love my Pioneer SX-1980 or Yamaha CR 3020 any less. I love my place on Audio Krama's audiophile gear spectrum and share here from that place of joy in my heart.

I love it when someone shares their Reel to Reel Beast with 10 inch reels and all the bells and whistles. Hi Fi to me personally is all about intent and the joy of sharing your hi fi world with us no matter what gear you have. If it's the best you can do and your gear brings you joy share it here. I for one feel privleged to see it and enjoy it with you. Of course I'm a dumb Old Gray Werewolf but I'M LOVING IT!
 
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The ironic thing about buying audio equipment primarily to impress people—a fool’s errand—is that:

1). Very few people will probably ever sit down in your listening room and really take in and appreciate the sound.

2). Even if they like the way it sounds, they won’t probably recognize any of the brand names on your rack.

3). If your guests/friends actually do show interest and ask questions, and you reveal what each box and wire does and how much each component cost, they will probably end up—rather than being impressed—thinking that you are a little obsessive and weird, if not actually nuts, and, therefore, will come away thinking somewhat less—not more of you.
 
Bushikan said:
The ironic thing about buying audio equipment primarily to impress people—a fool’s errand—is that:

... If your guests/friends actually do show interest and ask questions... they will probably end up—rather than being impressed—thinking that you are a little obsessive and weird, if not actually nuts....
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Not just with audio equipment. I get that at times when people see all my shoes. :oops: o_O
 
tourmax said:
It is. For yourself. It's a life choice. Label yourself and others or just take them as they are.

Can't control what others do though.

"Labeling theory" is actually a physiological concept. There's a boatload of issues with/about it.

Labeling people closes your mind. Rejecting labels means you are always open to possibilities and re-examining your "truths".

Lead men/women in any endeavour and you learn very quickly that "labels"aren't a "plus", they're a negative....
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I'm wasn't referring to the "labelling"...imo....the "people are people" thing is naïve...if not dangerous. As for Leadership...been there...done that...got the awards....:beerchug:
 
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