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MIT Cables - Closing down

I'm neither defending nor condemning high dollar cables when I say that that is an incredible false equivalency.
It isn't. We fully understand the physical laws that will apply when jumping from a height. Likewise we fully understand the physical laws that apply when cables conduct electricity. Confident predictions of outcomes can therefore be made in both cases.
 
This thread is already taking the course that so many discussions before it have taken.

You can argue that all this cable stuff is nonsense, and you’ll have a strong cohort of folks to back you up.

Or, you can say that maybe he was onto something and you’re interested in learning a bit more. You’ll have an equally strong cohort of folks that have experienced improvement in the sonics of their systems using MIT cables.

If you are in the latter camp, do a search on “Bruce A. Brisson” using Google Patents you will find 14 utility and design patents. The utility patents are an interesting read and provide some insight into his designs and the interface problems he claims they solve.

Below is an excerpt from one of his patents:

————-snip————-
The generation of noise in the audio frequency spectrum by audio signals placed on an audio transmission line or cable has been traced to transitions in the potential placed on the line. It has been found that when a low level, low frequency potential, such as a potential in the millivolt or microvolt range having a frequency of approxima20 to 1500 Hz, is applied to an audio signal transmission line, particularly one coupled to a high
impedance load, and goes from a negative potential to a positive potential, there is an instantaneous storage of charge in the distributed capacitance of the line. The capacitance may comprise the mutual or parasitic capacitance of multistrand wire as well as the capacitance due to dielectrics used in the line. When the charge discharges, high frequency noise, e.g. above 1 MHz, is generated. The high frequency noise, when it decays, produces a sustained low level, low frequency oscillation in the audio frequency spectrum on the line. To eliminate the undesired low level, low frequency oscillation, it has been found that by adding a compensating
inductive element or network to the line, preferably on the load end thereof, the noise producing effect of the distributed capacitance can be reduced if not completely eliminated.
 
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Yikes~! Plus one.

I've read every Brisson patent and many hundreds more.

The "Proof" is usually Not in the pudding...

Then again I've read patents that were pure nonsense but the product works?

Many explanations appear to simply be a distraction, I doubt the author believed what they wrote.

Magician tricks. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
 
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Capacitance of speaker wires after a point certainly can affect the audio signal and at some point even the response of the amplifier itself, which is why adding capacitance such as the many interleaved cables, is bad. Note however that these cables are popular, supporting Roger Russel’s assertion that this high-frequency ringing is perceived by some as “more detail” and therefore considered an improvement even though it deviates measurably from accurate.

The speaker is largely an inductive load but varying across the frequency range (inductive, resistive, and capacitive together summed as Impedance) and inductive plus capacitive is how you create an oscillator or filter, so without knowledge of the inductive or capacitive characteristics of the amplifier AND the speaker/load you cannot simply add an inductor to speaker cables without the potential for causing undesirable effects. Braiding cables, which is also popular, tends to trade inductive coupling for capacitive coupling, you’re picking your poison as you deviate from basic speaker wire design. For the most part it is only harmful to your wallet though, so we all do what makes us happy with our money and this makes some people happy. I like the glint of silver conductors and was willing to pay for the small pleasure of “pure” silver cables, … not expecting any improvement but also confident it will not harm anything.

Speaker wires and especially boutique wires aka: “cables” will never achieve universal acceptance as necessary for perfect SQ in the audible range as long as there are carnies out there misrepresenting their “science” as applicable to human hearing,

I believe that there are improvements available beyond the 16AWG zip-cord that we used to consider the standard especially at higher power, longer runs, and with speaker systems that dip into low impedances but I have never been able to repeatedly/reliably “hear” an improvement. I do believe that some of my “cables” that were boutique caused a degradation in imaging and shelved those, but haven’t (yet) been able to hear any other differences even in A-B demonstrations at AXPONA where people spoke out telling of what night-and-day improvements they heard (shills?) from cable risers, cables, and accessories, … and my ears still test (by Audiologist testing) very good so maybe it’s me or maybe it’s not. Good quality connections however; ones that make good contact and do not grow corrosion at the junction are an easy “yes” (as is a thin application of dielectric grease before assembly).

Anyway, I stand on my opinion that there’s nothing wrong with liking and buying boutique cables, in fact there are some quality cables out there that are simply better quality end-to-end, and I’m happy to try out some of these because it’s fun and it’s a hobby. I have no reason to buy some of these cables myself as I don’t see it as beneficial from true science as applied to audio signals and human hearing, that’s my choice.

Finally, I’ve read and authored patents (utility patents as these would be categorized), hundreds of them. A patent doesn’t need to be beneficial, doesn’t need to actually apply to anything to be issued, basically it can be a unique application of existing technology that isn’t obvious to one skilled in the art, … such as for example adding an inductor to a speaker cable to mitigate a range of frequencies that aren’t applicable to human hearing, and only effective at all with a very specific set of variables on both ends. I feel that I could have written a patent around this that would issue. You can look at millions of patents that have been issued and never used for anything universities and research institutes patent new findings daily. This doesn’t mean that there is a practical application for the invention, in some (many?) cases a patent application or patent is a marketing tool only. My opinion on this is based on reading some of these patents and looking at the company that owns it, and how it is applied, This use of patents is common and not only in audio, people feel that a patent gives the (mis)application of a modification credibility. It does not.
 
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I loved the guy selling 3 inch diameter speakers wires at CES Vegas in 2010.

The system sound was unremarkable then he presses a remote button and the wires "Light Up" as in lined with LEDs...

He gets in my face... You Hear That... You Hear That... WOW amazing...

Me... not hearing anything. :rolleyes:

There is definitely a lot of Pride involved in audio as in every hobby.

I'm sure that doesn't influence people.../s.

Some products in audio remind me of these rims...

tire.jpg
 
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I beg to differ……. Bloom County

I love both.

But I think Calvin and Hobbes has better shelf life since it never relied on current events.

A good bit of Bloom County would not be funny to someone who was not familiar with the political climate when the cartoons were published.
 
It isn't. We fully understand the physical laws that will apply when jumping from a height. Likewise we fully understand the physical laws that apply when cables conduct electricity. Confident predictions of outcomes can therefore be made in both cases.
Comparing something that will result in certain death with something that will result in nothing at all is false equivalency. Regardless of the application of mental gymnastics.
 
15 years ago I brought home a couple pair of used MIT rca's on the advice of a trusted audio friend. At the time I was running a rebuilt Yamaha preamp going into a 30 year old Mcintosh amp. It was my first foray into better cables and I heard zero change. The cables came out and got passed on to someone else for a slight profit and I was back to my rat shack stuff.

Several years and upgrades later I decided to give MIT another shot. Whoa; what is this I'm hearing now? Increased bass from a simple cabling swap? How can that be; cabling doesn't make a difference. Well crap; ain't that just beautiful; I'm thinking I'm all done with upgraditis and now this.

As I found out no those MIT's still do not change the sound in any of my secondary rigs. But much to my chagrin the change is audible in my main rig with my best gear. In a way I wish it wasn't as I could pull those MIT's and sell them for a tidy profit since they're no longer in business. But nope all those miserable to work with shotguns are staying put.
 
Comparing something that will result in certain death with something that will result in nothing at all is false equivalency. Regardless of the application of mental gymnastics.
Well that wasn't my analogy. I offered what I think is a more appropriate one which was the calculation of how much load a bridge can stand. There's no need to actually build the bridge in order to know for a fact how much load it can take. It isn't necessary to have empirical experience in order to know what something will or won't do. The entire modern world is constructed on this method. If it wasn't, we'd still be living in caves.

So to say that audio is somehow an exception and that we cannot evaluate anything without personal direct experience is a rather odd position to take. It's true that we have probably all come across instances where something shouldn't change the sound but does. Almost all of the time in these cases, we are simply mistaken because we did not make a proper comparison.

That's not to say a loudspeaker cable can never change the sound. If it has high resistance there's a chance it will audibly reduce high frequencies, and that can lead to a variety of subjective impressions such as 'more bass'.

That's not entirely simple since it also depends on the characteristics of the whole circuit - source, amplification, loudspeaker. But there's no mystery there and no need to spend large amounts of money on the cable in order to achieve it.

Claims that skin effect or transmission line effects will change the audible frequency range are bogus. The purpose of those claims is to fool the buyer into thinking it's necessary to pay the high price to get the result.
 
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As I found out no those MIT's still do not change the sound in any of my secondary rigs. But much to my chagrin the change is audible in my main rig with my best gear.
Therein lies at least one of the keys to hearing differences in cables, components, etc. I too experienced that when swapping components/cables between the 3 systems I once had. Only with the best, most revealing system to begin with was I able to hear noticeable differences/improvements.
 
Therein lies at least one of the keys to hearing differences in cables, components, etc. I too experienced that when swapping components/cables between the 3 systems I once had. Only with the best, most revealing system to begin with was I able to hear noticeable differences/improvements.
Although this does have merit, it is also the psychological tool that is used to hush doubters, much like the fable of “The Emperor’s New Clothes” where onlookers were afraid to tell the Emperor that he was naked for fear of being punished.

The response and forced perception being that one’s system is not high-end enough, or one’s ears not good enough to hear the difference is common whenever there is a discussion of cables and accessories that are of dubious effect, where nobody seems to use this argument toward a higher-spec amplifier or preamp. Why? Because nobody has to argue that satellites and aircraft exist, but proving that UFOs or extra-terrestrials exist when it can’t be proven (beyond reasonable doubt?) is a completely different discussion.

@Mart Mccall makes an interesting analogy with bridges. A Civil Engineer can make all of the calculations, design a dam that in its environment will survive the anticipated loads and environment for X years with a Y engineering (safety) factor and it is a fine dam. Company Z can patent a technology that will protect it from a UFO landing mid-span with an oscillator that repels Grizzly Bears, Sasquatch and other non-human beings and make a claim that it should be installed based on all dams and bridges to avoid destruction from UFO landings. He then creates a scare among the residences protected by the dam, and there are enough people who don’t understand the “invention” fully and feel that it should be funded and installed, that the agency in charge is forced to install it. There are no failures of the dam, therefore it is successful, and the believers chastise the non-believers telling them how smart it is and how wrong they were because the dam has not had a UFO landing since installation and they were just not smart enough to know how important it was or too poor to be able to afford the UFO repeller.

There ARE better cables and terminations, but basically because they are better conductors, this can be proven. It also has been proven that unplugging and re-plugging connections will provide a clean connection and sometimes yields an improvement in audio quality, which you could hear replacing cables/wires with any new cable.

There are also cables that are marketed based on misapplied science, their superiority in many cases can be proven, but often only for RF frequencies or ultra-low-level signals, neither of which are applicable to speaker wires. The same applies to power cords and digital audio but another discussion. These are the UFO repellant science and the ones that many of us argue against, and by no surprise they are also usually by a large margin, the most expensive.

Again I have no reason to berate anyone who makes a choice different than what is supported by my beliefs, understanding, education, budget, … provided the choice is made with “eyes open” and not based on some misapplied scientific principal that has so little (or no) real effect on audio frequencies as perceivable to the human ear and brain. I do have, because I like people, a strong desire to help people to understand when they’re clearly duped by a very polished and socially-engineered sales pitch to spend their money on a product that is not going to do what it states or implies it will do. I’m happy to see people experimenting, I do all of the time, and enjoying different shiny baubles for these systems provided these people understand that some (much) of this stuff is just marketing.

I’ve said before, music is art, audio systems are science, but choices of hardware can be better compared to religion. Arguing which religion and choices within evoke more passion than logical choices and never end well.

<edit> Sorry for the rant(s)
 
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Although this does have merit, it is also the psychological tool that is used to hush doubters, much like the fable of “The Emperor’s New Clothes” where onlookers were afraid to tell the Emperor that he was naked for fear of being punished.

The response and forced perception being that one’s system is not high-end enough, or one’s ears not good enough to hear the difference is common whenever there is a discussion of cables and accessories that are of dubious effect, where nobody seems to use this argument toward a higher-spec amplifier or preamp. Why? Because nobody has to argue that satellites and aircraft exist, but proving that UFOs or extra-terrestrials exist when it can’t be proven (beyond reasonable doubt?) is a completely different discussion.
All that for simply agreeing with you? :dunno:
 
Was wondering if someone was going to catch that missing Lug Nut...

Heard them called... Houston Elbos or Swangaz.
 
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