Mitsubishi Engine

[Andyman]

Wiggy, I'll come over and we'll do it in an hour or less. It's really about the easiest job to do on a car these days. I've done it over a dozen times or more and have all the tools necessary. It's far from the nightmare of the old shoe brakes with the star wheels, spring cups and wire cables.

Watch this, it's probably about all you need to do. Break lose maybe 4 bolts/side, slide on new rotors and clip in new pads, bleed the new calipers and it's all over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW8vIg0t3Ks

 

[westend]

FYI, EGR and O2 sensor total parts price is around $100, retail. Labor should be less than $100, it's two bolts and a twist of a wrench to replace both. Your oil consumption, which is not extraordinary, may be the cause or the effect of not having these devices working correctly.

The brakes are an easy DIY job, hope Andy got you taken care of.

I wouldn't replace the engine. When it no longer is adequate for your driving, put it back in the recycle chain. That may happen after another 75K mi.. I have a Mitsubishi (MIVEC 4) and it just passed 205K.

 

[davidb1]

If Andyman can come help, that is the route to go. Suggest spraying the heck out of the calipers and rotor bolts with penetration oil before anyone touches it.
Agree with others to skip the engine swap.

 

[Wigwam Jones]

Thanks guys. I appreciate all the advice. However, I wasn't asking about brakes. I can get the brakes fixed. My question was about engine swapping. And really, not to be obtuse, but all I've heard is "don't do it," or "your engine should last a lot longer."

So, yes, I get that my engine should last a lot longer. You have put my mind at ease with regard to the oil consumption. However, wasn't really thinking to replace the engine because it was going to die, but because it doesn't really have enough power to suit me at times. I'm not looking to build a tuner or a race car, but a bit more oomph would be appreciated. That was the basis for the question.

And with regard to the "don't do it" statements, again, I certainly do appreciate the comments, but I've also asked "WHY NOT" and no one has answered.

At this point, I guess I'm inclined to just do what I was thinking of in the first place. Get the brakes fixed and look around for a good used 1.8 L engine to replace the 1.5 L. I really only wanted to know what was involved in terms of cost/difficulty.

I say the above with the greatest of thankfulness to the people who took the time to respond. And Andyman is a very good friend to offer to help me with my brakes. But a) I would not do that to him, and b) by the time I have the money to do it, it will be the dead of winter and I don't have a heated garage (or tools, talent, etc). I have a budget to include repairing the brakes when the money comes available at the end of the year. Andyman has done a lot for me; this would be asking way too much.

 

[davidb1]

OK, understood.
Question- does your car have to pass emissions? You conceivably could pick up noticeable power by removing any belts that drive emission pumps. Worked on my ex's Honda and was surprisingly noticeable. Flipped over the air cleaner lid and picked up a little more power.
Years of reading hot rod and other mags and hopping up my bike, a couple of T/A's and couple of Mustangs have made me believe that a swap on a more modern car can create problems with making various electronic systems work correctly plus more load on the transmission designed for a smaller motor.
Perhaps some in person research at any local tuner/repair shops? You might luck in to someone who has done the swap.
Good for you for researching and thinking about it before just jumping in.

 

[Shadowdog]

I agree the EGR & O2 sensor should be cheap and they may in fact help solve the power problem.

How's it for fuel consumption, as it should be really good? That can tell you a lot!

It should be able to do close to 100 mph with it's HP rating of the 1.5 so something is really wrong like above. Do a leakdown test as that will tell you of it's real condition and if you need a new engine.

I had an 89 Ford Festiva with 65 HP and it would do 95 MPH + easily passing people with 110K miles. I used Synthetic Oil to help it last. Another thing is I would always wait till it was up to operating temp before driving it hard or at highway speeds.

I sold it as It was a dark colour or too small, so I always had people on the highway not see me and pass coming at me or cross the highway etc.


I would get the service manual and you can fix it yourself , as it's simple, and you know it's fixed right.

 

[Wigwam Jones]

OK, understood.
Question- does your car have to pass emissions? You conceivably could pick up noticeable power by removing any belts that drive emission pumps. Worked on my ex's Honda and was surprisingly noticeable. Flipped over the air cleaner lid and picked up a little more power.
Years of reading hot rod and other mags and hopping up my bike, a couple of T/A's and couple of Mustangs have made me believe that a swap on a more modern car can create problems with making various electronic systems work correctly plus more load on the transmission designed for a smaller motor.
Perhaps some in person research at any local tuner/repair shops? You might luck in to someone who has done the swap.
Good for you for researching and thinking about it before just jumping in.

Michigan has no emissions laws or inspections for cars and trucks, so you can pretty much do whatever you like, as I understand it.

My thought on the potential swap was that this model vehicle was available with a variety of motors, including the 1.8 I'd like to put in there. And it's an automatic, so no worries about clutch linkages, etc. If the mounts and so on are the same, then I was thinking (hoping) it would be a drop-in swap. More or less.

 

[Wigwam Jones]

I agree the EGR & O2 sensor should be cheap and they may in fact help solve the power problem.

That I do not know. In my day, there was no such thing as an O2 sensor, and the EGR was on the valve cover. They used to cost a couple bucks. Now I understand they are near the fuel filler in the back of the car and the gas tank has to come out to install them. I'm not doing that myself, so that's pretty much not happening.

How's it for fuel consumption, as it should be really good? That can tell you a lot!

It gets almost exactly 30 MPG.

It should be able to do close to 100 mph with it's HP rating of the 1.5 so something is really wrong like above. Do a leakdown test as that will tell you of it's real condition and if you need a new engine.

Anything near 70 and the engine sounds (to my ear) like it's revving too high. The car is also not stable at that speed. I don't care for it, so I drive about 65 MPH on the freeway. I'm not looking to go faster, just to be able to get up to speed quicker.

I had an 89 Ford Festiva with 65 HP and it would do 95 MPH + easily passing people with 110K miles. I used Synthetic Oil to help it last. Another thing is I would always wait till it was up to operating temp before driving it hard or at highway speeds.

I sold it as It was a dark colour or too small, so I always had people on the highway not see me and pass coming at me or cross the highway etc.

My Mitsu is OK with the A/C off, but if it's on, then acceleration off the line is horrible.

I would get the service manual and you can fix it yourself , as it's simple, and you know it's fixed right.

No. No tools, no time, and definitely no inclination. I did all my wrenching when I was in my 20s. Now I am in my 50s, so I'm all done with that stuff.

 

[El Pee]

Swapping the motor to gain 11 hp doesn't seem worth the trouble to me.

 

[Wigwam Jones]

Swapping the motor to gain 11 hp doesn't seem worth the trouble to me.

Actually it's 21 horsepower, and when you compare it to the stock horsepower rating, 21 more is about a 20% gain. That's significant, I think.

 

[noogies]

I put a reman engine in my Dodge Dakota truck due to overheating issues that resulted in cracked heads and bottom end damage. The rest of the truck was (is) in good shape with no other issues and a fresh transmission so I figured it was worth taking the plunge. Best deal I could get locally was $5K installed and I went for it. If the truck had been worth significantly less than the cost of the new engine, I wouldn't have done it -- I would have gotten something else.

If you feel your Mitsu is worth the cost of the swap (not to say it'll cost you five grand,
but probably at least three even if your mechanic gives you the "brother-in-law" deal) then knock yourself out. But if you start totting up costs of the swap plus other work required, you may find it makes more sense to donate the poor old Mitsu back to charity and get something that has a little more grunt already built in.

 

[Shadowdog]

There could also be something wrong suspension wise as it should handle well at that speed.

I'd get rid of it if it if they handle unsafe ( I like to be able to avoid a crash easily) like that, but maybe it has Rust Issues affecting the chassis + subframes to the suspension being where you live so even more reason to scrap it.

My Festiva handled like a VW Rabbit/Golf/Jetta meaning the faster you drove it the better it felt/handled so that's one thing that sold me on it.

EGR means Exhaust Gas Recirculation and is a valve located where that would happen logically which is right on the intake manifold with a pipe to the exhaust manifold. Sometimes they can be cleaned as they just get plugged up with carbon from the exhaust.

They help lower the emissions by circulating a small amount of exhaust gas back into the air intake of the engine.

The O2 sensor read the Oxygen level to adjust the fuel injection so it's important for fuel economy besides the environmental issues.

30 MPG if that's stop and go driving back and forth to work may not too bad as my Festiva used to get 36-37 US MPG under those conditions.

What you were thinking that was cheap and easy to replace on the valve cover years ago was the PVC valve, and it still is at the engine.

The only issue you should have at the fuel tank is the electric fuel pump and maybe fuel tank vent lines to the carbon canister to absorb stray gases, but that should be near the engine.

I personally would never buy another FWD car do to repair issues and also do to stability issues (high death rate on black ice or slush) before stability control was mandated by the Feds in 2011. I found this to be very true as a FWD vehicle can be next to impossible to regain control of once they suddenly slide. I found the Festiva had nervous steering before it went out of control and was lucky no one was coming 2 weeks after I got my car in Dec. 89. I even had studded winter tires, but Black Ice and a bit of snow is very slippery. Lucky I was only going 35 MPH!

AWD would be nice in the winter so maybe worth the extra maint. costs etc. however and most of the old European ones have stability control so they handle safely.

 

[Wigwam Jones]

I put a reman engine in my Dodge Dakota truck due to overheating issues that resulted in a cracked heads and bottom end damage. The rest of the truck was (is) in good shape with no other issues and a fresh transmission so I figured it was worth taking the plunge. Best deal I could get locally was $5K installed and I went for it. If the truck had been worth significantly less than the cost of the new engine, I wouldn't have done it -- I would have gotten something else.

If you feel your Mitsu is worth the cost of the swap (not to say it'll cost you five grand,
but probably at least three even if your mechanic gives you the "brother-in-law" deal) then knock yourself out. But if you start totting up costs of the swap plus other work required, you may find it makes more sense to donate the poor old Mitsu back to charity and get something that has a little more grunt already built in.

I have also gone the remanufactured engine route on a 96 Chevy Lumina once, the 3.1 V6 cost me $4500, so I believe you. But I wasn't thinking of a remanufactured engine. Just a good pull from a junkyard; I see them for $500 and up with a short 90 day warranty. I was wondering what labor would be like on a swap like that. I saw the one post about dropping the entire front end, transaxle and all, and if that is what's required, then yeah, the cost of the labor is probably way too high to do it. But if it's just a pull and bolt in replacement with everything matching up, then maybe it could be done for less than or around a grand? Hoping, anyway. If not, then yeah, it's too much.

 

[Wigwam Jones]

There could also be something wrong suspension wise as it should handle well at that speed.

I'd get rid of it if it if they handle unsafe ( I like to be able to avoid a crash easily) like that, but maybe it has Rust Issues affecting the chassis being where you live so even more reason to scrap it.

My Festiva handled like a VW Rabbit/Golf/Jetta meaning the faster you drove it the better it felt/handled so that's one thing that sold me on it.

EGR means Exhaust Gas Recirculation and is a valve located where that would happen logically which is right on the intake manifold with a pipe to the exhaust manifold. Sometimes they can be cleaned as they just get plugged up with carbon from the exhaust.

They help lower the emissions by circulating a small amount of exhaust gas back into the air intake of the engine.

The O2 sensor read the Oxygen level to adjust the fuel injection so it's important for fuel economy besides the environmental issues.

30 MPG if that's stop and go driving back and forth to work may not too bad as my Festiva used to get 36-37 US MPG under those conditions.

I appreciate it, but again, I'm not going to do any work on the car myself. If I were to have the EGR replaced, I'd have the mechanic do it. But he says for the cost he'd have to charge, just ignore it. The car has no significant rust; I bought it on eBay and drove to Virginia and pulled it back on a trailer; it had never seen salted roads until it got here. The mechanic says it's clean as a whistle underneath, something he never sees around here. Up top, it's in beater condition, but not rusted.

 

[noogies]

I've always shied away from junkyard motors -- the labor required is the same and unless you see it installed and running, and have the opportunity to at least do a compression test, you have no idea what you're getting.

Regardless, sounds like time for a chat with your mechanic.

 

[whitey]

My local wrecker sells motors for $139 with a 90 day...You guys are getting bent.

 

[Shadowdog]

Great it's not rusty!

Actually the EGR may make it un driveable when it sticks on, and the O2 sensor will set off the check engine light. It's the size of a spark plug and unscrews from the exhaust manifold.

Whitey, what a deal!

 

[bshorey]

Thanks guys. I appreciate all the advice. However, I wasn't asking about brakes. I can get the brakes fixed. My question was about engine swapping. And really, not to be obtuse, but all I've heard is "don't do it," or "your engine should last a lot longer."

So, yes, I get that my engine should last a lot longer. You have put my mind at ease with regard to the oil consumption. However, wasn't really thinking to replace the engine because it was going to die, but because it doesn't really have enough power to suit me at times. I'm not looking to build a tuner or a race car, but a bit more oomph would be appreciated. That was the basis for the question.

And with regard to the "don't do it" statements, again, I certainly do appreciate the comments, but I've also asked "WHY NOT" and no one has answered.

Wrt engine swaps, here's why I would shy away (and I've done plenty).

1) If you buy a junkyard motor, you don't know the real condition. Ideally you'd want to run a compression test, a leakdown test, etc.

2) Even with a 'known good' motor, you still probably want to do a few things like front and rear seals, etc.

3) You can buy a running car, so you can verify that the motor is running before you install it in your car, but now you have to pay your mechanic to yank that motor too.

4) The motor is bigger than what you have - is your 1.5 liter radiator up to par for the larger displacement motor? What about the rest of the car?

Unless you have the means to do all this yourself, it's almost always better to just sell your car and buy the car that has the motor you want. The only time this kind of thing works out well is when you have a friend that has the motor you want in his car, you know it runs well and has been maintained, and somebody rear ends him.

A) What's your current car worth?
B) What would a junkyard motor cost you, plus some pre-installation maintenance (timing belt, front and rear seals, etc), plus installation?
C) What would a known good motor cost you, plus installation?
D) What would the car you want with the 1.8 liter motor cost you?

If you are paying somebody else to do the work, then 90% of the time D-A will always be less than B or C.

hth,

bs

 

[davidb1]

Wonder if the cat converter is clogged? Perhaps a call to your mechanic? A bypass pipe would be relatively cheap.

 

[Rodzilla]

you really do need to research an engine swap carefully...in a car that came with the 1.8 is everything truly the same besides the engine?are you sure about that?if it is,than yeah a straight ahead drop in is an option...however....in reality this is rarely the case with even semi-modern cars.

things can often be different enough that sometimes the easiest way to gather all the components needed is to buy an entire donor car with the engine you want..seriously,you gotta look at everything from the engine mounts and transmission to the wiring harness,computer and any sensors,vacuum systems,cooling,exhaust system etc etc...all could be different and may or may not work,any parts that don't match up will need to be replaced as well..this can get extensive and expensive

in truth it's not a small undertaking even if it IS a drop in replacement..a decent engine will cost you money,at least a couple hundred bucks...and thats cheap...add that to the labor required to do the swap,as well as the "might as well" jobs that will get done in the process.and for a car like this?you'll likely be close to or even over the cost of just buying a different car with the bigger motor and driving that instead...your total bill for engine,parts and install will easily be four figures and the first number might not be a "1"...that's assuming your mechanic doesn't work for beer and pizza...but...check it out as best you can and then have a serious conversation about it with your mechanic,he should be able to ballpark it a lot better than we can

honestly the best and cheapest option is to get the engine you have checked out and gone over,a CEL on is a bad thing,the older the car the more simplistic the behavior of the computer,in many older OBD1 cars if that light was on the computer was also operating in "limp" mode...this is far from optimal for mileage or power.it's possible you just need to do some maintenance and maybe a few other minor things to get more power and drive-ability out of what you have.

whoops looks like i missed page three before posting,also looks like bshorey and i are on about the same page...sorry for reiterating