Modified Forte 1 Upgrades-Bob Crites Autotransformers and Titanium Tweeters
- Thread starter SET12
- Start date
Bob's prices are very reasonable. And his service is nothing less than spectacular. I'm a total klutz when it comes to anything mechanical, but he was there every step of the way answering every question I had within minutes of email being sent to him.
Oh, and his crossovers are amazing.
Oh, and his crossovers are amazing.
silversport
Super Member
my take on Bob's crossovers are not so much that they are an improvement over the stock Klipsch crossovers...but that the stock Klipsch crossovers are probably shot by now as according to Bob who knows more than I will ever know on the subject were of cheap quality from the gitgo...so by replacing your Klipsch crossovers (or freshening them yourselves) with better quality components you are getting back to the sound your speakers left the factory with but should enjoy them for MANY years to come as Bob's parts are better to begin with...on many speakers, the crossovers move off of the speaker terminal cup which is stressed and is plastic too so another added bonus...lastly, his price is reasonable and service is great so...
Bill
Bill
SET12
Super Member
my take on Bob's crossovers are not so much that they are an improvement over the stock Klipsch crossovers...but that the stock Klipsch crossovers are probably shot by now as according to Bob who knows more than I will ever know on the subject were of cheap quality from the gitgo...so by replacing your Klipsch crossovers (or freshening them yourselves) with better quality components you are getting back to the sound your speakers left the factory with but should enjoy them for MANY years to come as Bob's parts are better to begin with...on many speakers, the crossovers move off of the speaker terminal cup which is stressed and is plastic too so another added bonus...lastly, his price is reasonable and service is great so...
Bill
I whole heartily agree and at a very reasonable cost to!
Bob does great work and has great customer service!
The crossover work I have done is very expensive! But it has also paid back huge dividends for me IMO.
And ones mileage on a project like mine will very as well!
But right now I'm very pleased at the results of this extreme work!
SET12
SET12
Super Member
Check this site out for some very detailed capacitor sound shoot out!:thmbsp:
http://www.tempoelectric.com/caps.htm
Brinkman
Analog loyalist
The Tempo Electric cap shoot-out seems like it was conducted fairly. The usual complaints apply (i.e. "why didn't you try X capacitor?", "why didn't you bypass..." etc.).
In my case, I have some Obbligatos, and I would have liked to see how they compared to the Mundorf Supremes and AudioCap Thetas.
In my case, I have some Obbligatos, and I would have liked to see how they compared to the Mundorf Supremes and AudioCap Thetas.
SET12
Super Member
I got to tell you just a few things here! The caps and inductors are as different as night and day in my system and I think finding the right sounding ones is a crap shoot at best!:scratch2:
Where to begin! Well I received the Solen Hepa Litz 14ga .16 inductors and promptly installed them taking out the North Creek 8ga and what do you think happened? The Solens made me :yes:
uke: They were very bright! I thought they would be a bit more informative but not so much as to cause my ears to bleed.
So back went the North Creeks.
Then I decided to try a pair of older VTV Silver foil/oil caps in my amps and the sound became dark! Which is not the sound that I remembered from them. So I said Ok! Back in goes the Solens and things were much better! So I thought and the more I listened the more I desired the MIT Polypropylene and foil with a MIT Polystyrene and foil bypass along with the North Creeks.
Still I had the Mundorf 1uf Gold/Silver Foil Polypropylenes so I wanted to hear them in my amps and I liked what I heard but it seemed a little lean in contrast to the MITs but with a pristine top end on well recorded material but I wasn't thrilled with average material and the Duelund midrange quality that I fell in love with (texture and delicacy) was obscured a bit by the Gold/Silver M.
To cut to the case here I ended up preferring the MIT's in my amps.
The North Creek tweeter inductors running with the Mundorf Silver/foil and oils
The Titaniums just didn't cut it at all with the Solens but with the North Creek the cymbals are just gorgeous causing a few friends to comment on how nice they sounded! And how the speakers presentation was very remarkable and extremely listen able in contrast to what they previously sounded like.
The 3 friends have in excess of 100yrs audio experience and two of them are Electrical Engineers.
So I do think I'm on track, of course whats important is what I need from the system but its nice that they were enjoying what the heard.
I'm planing on setting up a SS amp to run a couple of weeks 24/7 to get some hrs on the Mundorfs and others to see if they gain some more body and smoothness.
And if you read the Tempo you'd see that they rated the MIT's as very bad but if you caught their comments on Dr. Loesch they found that he was able to get two bad caps to make a right!!! So perhaps thats the case with my preference for the MIT's in my amp as don't hear the so called smearing that they talk about with them nor the harshness.
Perhaps the Q of the Solen Inductors are just to much for the Titaniums especially with the well made Mundorfs.
And it just so happens that the North Creek is just a better fit and maybe theres more to the North Creeks than just the Q factor alone and of course along with everything else in my system!
So its not easy but well worth the effort of voicing out ones system to get this type of great sound that I am listening to or your own sound needs.
SET12
vintaggeman
Well-Known Member
Its hard to image what your thinking here!:scratch2: I'm guessing you think my comments are a little much!
Perhaps we should talk about signal paths?:yes:
Maybe that will explain why I hear what I hear!
SET12
i love klipsch :thmbsp: i have quartets and kg 5.5
you did a very good job upgradind the fortes. :thmbsp:
i wish if i can do the same in my quartets...
that was what i mean it !!
SET12
Super Member
No problem vintaggeman
Its sometimes hard to interpret emotions if you know what I mean! And what I wrote is some very extreme work that is definitely looked at as overboard by some but the performance of my mods has be well worth the time and money spent! And has shocked a few people.
Yes you can do the same no doubt! I would just e-mail Klipsch Tech and see if they'd e-mail it to you! They did mine! But at the time I wasn't a Klipsch Forum member where its been posted a few times. But Klipsch's Techs are pretty friendly so I would think it wouldn't be a problem. You probaly can get it from Bob Crites also.
Its a lot of fun voicing them out to fit your needs and I'd suggest trying more than one type of cap, and of course I'd get Bob's Titanium tweeters these really are smooth with the right components associated to them. If they are wrong you'll not like them! Also the Autotransformer up grade is worth every penny but again the right cap feeding it can be the difference of liking or not liking them! I found that the Titanium tweeter and the Autotransformer seem to go hand in hand.
The nice thing about the Forte is the low value caps needed for them. The Quartet may be the same! It allows you to buy the best that you can afford I spent the most on my midrange caps at 250$ for the pair for Duelunds and they have been amazing and are everything that I have read of them.
I wouldn't doubt that the Quartet is very similar to the Forte and as you can see from my crossover schematic on this thread its pretty easy to wire up and of course theres the forum here if you have any trouble. You just might be shocked at what you hear! I know I am!
So good luck and keep me posted on what you do!:thmbsp:
And Thanks for your response to my work!
SET12
SET12
Super Member
Good to hear from SWL! You need to come back for a listen. As I don't think you heard the new Autotransformer's, The new Titanium tweeters and the Duelund midrange caps about another 400$ in upgrades yet!
SET12
SET12
Super Member
Hey Redboy good to hear from you! :wave:
I wonder if you'll have the same reaction as I had?
Which was I should of done this a long time ago! :yes:
I also found that cap flavor or sound have you for mids and highs are greatly brought out here with the upgrade.
So if you don't like the sound change them!
Also you can have a system wide influence by changing amplifier coupling caps as well.
The cool thing about all this is the tunning that can be done in the individual areas low, mids and highs.
I'm having a ball myself! And learning much in the process!
How's your amp work going too?
SET12
Tapehead47
Addicted Member
Redboy
a few good watts
Unfortunately, I had to abandon the Pilot project. I sent the transformers to Heyboer for their professional services. The hope was that they could attach new leads to them, but once they got further into them it was obvious that the damage was beyond repair... Bummer.How's your amp work going too?
SET12
No worries! I've got other projects on deck, and as of today I've got another - Forte' upgrades! :thmbsp:
Redboy
a few good watts
Well, that was a gimme! :yes:
I ordered the stuff on Friday afternoon, and paid via Paypal. Bob shipped immediately and they were waiting for me when I got home this afternoon!
Swapping out the diaphragms was a simple process. It would have taken ten minutes but when I worked on them last, I replaced the internal wiring and soldered it directly to the terminals. I opted to do the same with the new so I had to factor in time for the iron to heat up. Twenty minutes, then! A word of caution - if you choose to solder directly to the terminals as I did, you need to be quick with the work so as to not melt the tabs off the plastic! Most people will probably just "unplug" the old and plug in the new.
I can immediately hear a difference. Highs are cleaner, more "sparkling." I'm really liking this! I'm not sure if these need a break in period or not but I assume it can't hurt. I'll report back later.
Down the road a bit I will also replace the autotransformers, but for the time being I want to spend some time with my "new" speakers.
If you own a pair of stock Forte's (Rick, I'm talking to you!), these diaphragms are a no-brainer. Instant discernable improvement in sound at a very reasonable price, and dealing with Bob is a pleasure! :thmbsp:
Tapehead47
Addicted Member
Redboy;1867027 If you own a pair of stock Forte's (Rick said:
Okay, Nate. There were so many mods made to Fortes in this thread that I'm not sure what I've been reading. Seems as if speakers have more circuits than amps!
Would you suggest the first mod should be the diaphrams? How much would it set me back?
Man, I hate taking stuff apart
It would be nice to hear the 'sparkle' I think I might be missing. But my Fortes sound so good as they are! They're stock '89. I'm not too sure my old ears could tell, though . But my friends probably could. Just to recap what I've said: diaphrams first? Sparkle? Instant discernable improvement? Reasonable price?
Thanks, Nate!
Rick
Redboy
a few good watts
Rick, if I were to do it again, I would start with these diaphragms. Nice thing is, they're the simplest part to do! Big results for low cash outlay and little work. No soldering required.
Next thing to do is replace the crossover caps with better quality. Here's where you could spend a month's salary or just the cost of dinner and a movie. Either way, you'll hear good results. I opted for the "dinner and a movie" caps and have no regrets thus far.
SET12's Forte's are probably the best in the world. Once you've done these two things and determine that you want to do more, he'll guide you through the next steps! :thmbsp:
Next thing to do is replace the crossover caps with better quality. Here's where you could spend a month's salary or just the cost of dinner and a movie. Either way, you'll hear good results. I opted for the "dinner and a movie" caps and have no regrets thus far.
SET12's Forte's are probably the best in the world. Once you've done these two things and determine that you want to do more, he'll guide you through the next steps! :thmbsp:
SET12
Super Member
Thanks! :scratch2: Wow! Thats a huge statement! And perhaps true in some respects I doubt few Forte owners have gone as far as I have. But certainly they like myself and yourself have heard the results of these efforts to get the most out of the Forte's. The shocking thing is they just keep improving so much so that I don't have much interest in the rest of the Klipsch line in their stock forms as the sound quality IMO is better than the majority of the Klipsch line for my needs. And I have a few more ideas!
Okay, Nate. There were so many mods made to Fortes in this thread that I'm not sure what I've been reading. Seems as if speakers have more circuits than amps!
Would you suggest the first mod should be the diaphrams? How much would it set me back?
Man, I hate taking stuff apart
Just to recap what I've said: diaphrams first? Sparkle? Instant discernable improvement? Reasonable price?
Thanks, Nate!
Rick
I think Nate has a good starting point here! Go with the diaphragms they are the easiest! With big dividends!
At 60$ you can't go wrong!
Then go for a cap upgrade after all the stock caps are getting old and the stock caps are pretty cheesy to begin with!
I noticed in your profile that you like jazz! I do to! I recently had a friend here that is an avid audiophile and an Electrical Engineer that has owned many systems often retailing near 50,000$ mark and IHO he thought the cymbals reproduction was one the nicest he had heard and I got to tell you its one of the nicest I to have heard regardless of speaker design. And he also said that the sound of the Fortes where just remarkable! And from a Klipsch! Sounding nothing like he had ever heard from any Klipsch. His words echo mine as well so when your thinking about upgrading in the Klipsch line and spending a chunk. Think about and look at the quality of the stock parts you'll likely be listening to!
I like to think of my Fortes like the horse Seabiscuit they may be little but they express themselves like they are the largest in the Klipsch line.
SET12
sniperdolan
Happy AK Member
I just got the diaphragms a few days ago for my pair of Chorus's. Really cleaned up the high end.
I also have brand new crossovers installed from bob. Very nice work.
I would recommend everyone to upgrade both the diaphragms and the crossovers.
Dolan
I also have brand new crossovers installed from bob. Very nice work.
I would recommend everyone to upgrade both the diaphragms and the crossovers.
Dolan