Modified Forte 1 Upgrades-Bob Crites Autotransformers and Titanium Tweeters

[Tapehead47]

Well, then....

SET12 I'll go to the Crites website and see what's available at a decent price. I bought these Fortes just about a year ago for a good price and local pick up. They are incredible compared to the JBL 4311's I've been using for the past 30 years or so! And the JBL's are great!

I think my ears aren't as good as they used to be (40 years of loud Rock n' Roll!) but maybe an upgrade to the tweets/mids would prove I'm not as deaf as my wife thinks I am. If she would only stop mumbling!

Actually I can hear a snare and brushes. Perhaps new diaphragms is the way to go.

Here I come, Bob....

Thanks,
Rick

 

[SET12]

I just got the diaphragms a few days ago for my pair of Chorus's. Really cleaned up the high end.

I also have brand new crossovers installed from bob. Very nice work.

I would recommend everyone to upgrade both the diaphragms and the crossovers.

Dolan

Thats great Dolan! You can't go wrong with Bob!

Well, then....

SET12 I'll go to the Crites website and see what's available at a decent price. I bought these Fortes just about a year ago for a good price and local pick up. They are incredible compared to the JBL 4311's I've been using for the past 30 years or so! And the JBL's are great!

I think my ears aren't as good as they used to be (40 years of loud Rock n' Roll!) but maybe an upgrade to the tweets/mids would prove I'm not as deaf as my wife thinks I am. If she would only stop mumbling!

Actually I can hear a snare and brushes. Perhaps new diaphragms is the way to go.

Here I come, Bob....

Thanks,
Rick

Wait to you see how easy it is! Also I have a schematic on this thread of the Forte network if you'd like to look at it! I think you'll see just how simple it is!

One of the nice things about the Forte network is its values which helps keep costs down and the quality up allowing one to afford some of the more exotic parts like some of the ones I use. Because as the value of the part goes up so does the cost within any given line of parts.

The 3mh low frequency Air Core Inductor that I'm using is the most expensive part in my crossover at 500$ pair now! Which I paid perhaps 250$ a pair some 5 yrs ago. The bass response from the Forte is very good with these! so much so that I have no need for a sub and often people are a little taken back at how full and powerful it sounds without a sub even from other people that have heard other Fortes

The best part of bass definition for me is pitch definition not that the Fortes have a lot of it but they have enough to turn a head or two now and again.

Anyway more later!

SET12

 

[Brinkman]

Hey guys.

I just ordered some Solen inductors (for the tweeters) and some capacitors from Part Connexion. These are hopefully my final Forte crossover upgrade purchases.
I cannot wait to hear my Fortes with the new autotransformers, titanium tweeter diaphragms, North Creek woofer inductors, and Solen Hepta Litz tweeter inductors. I will not go the dueland route on my mid caps (too much $$$), so I'm going with Mundorf Supremes.
The only place I'm anticipating possible tweaking, beyond what I'm already committed to, is in the tweeter caps. For the time being I will go with two pairs of 1.5uF Multicap RTXs. If the tweeters still sound a little too forward with these upgrades, I may experiment with dropping the value of the second cap from 1.5uF to 1.0uF, then if need be, parallel some bypasses to them to incrementally raise their value.
Finally, I've remounted each of my crossovers on larger blocks of wood (to accommodate the large woofer inductors), added rubber feet, and also commissioned some perfect-fit crystal-clear acrylic covers to keep dust off the components. As soon as this project is finished, I'd be happy to post some photos, as well as my impressions.

-Brinkman

 

[SET12]

Hey guys.

I just ordered some Solen inductors (for the tweeters) and some capacitors from Part Connexion. These are hopefully my final Forte crossover upgrade purchases.
I cannot wait to hear my Fortes with the new autotransformers, titanium tweeter diaphragms, North Creek woofer inductors, and Solen Hepta Litz tweeter inductors. I will not go the dueland route on my mid caps (too much $$$), so I'm going with Mundorf Supremes.
The only place I'm anticipating possible tweaking, beyond what I'm already committed to, is in the tweeter caps. For the time being I will go with two pairs of 1.5uF Multicap RTXs. If the tweeters still sound a little too forward with these upgrades, I may experiment with dropping the value of the second cap from 1.5uF to 1.0uF, then if need be, parallel some bypasses to them to incrementally raise their value.
Finally, I've remounted each of my crossovers on larger blocks of wood (to accommodate the large woofer inductors), added rubber feet, and also commissioned some perfect-fit crystal-clear acrylic covers to keep dust off the components. As soon as this project is finished, I'd be happy to post some photos, as well as my impressions.

-Brinkman

Brinkman congrats on your purchases!

I have found that the network components do need to be voiced to your system needs and that there are many solutions some good some not so good as in my first time around with the Hovland caps in my networks. I was able to use some bypasses to calm the Hovlands down a bit but nothing like what I have now with the Duelund Coppers, and Mundorf Silver/Oils for the tweeters.

It cost me to voice some components to the tune of a couple hundred but I feel I can sell the ones I didn't like.

I tried the Hepa Litz 14ga for my tweeters which their measured Q via ALK's work was substantially higher than the North Creek inductors.

I can only say it was subjectively a bad match for my system. They came across a bit bright and thin sounding.

Where as the North Creek was smooth and had a gorgeous body with plenty of information that was not over the top as the Solen presented.

:scratch2: So why this was I don't know! but since I had a considerable investment in the North Creek inductors and the Mundorf Silver/Oils and really like what I was hearing for the combination that was my ticket for my system.

If the Solen Litz's are not cutting it! I would try a non Litz Inductor, Of course you could try a different cap as well. I think you'll find this tuning very interesting as in my system every change was very audible!

I invited 3 close audio buddies to give my finale choice a listen and they all were unanimous in their opinions that it was the best they had ever heard a klipsch's presentation one went so far as to say that cymbals were some of the finest he had heard as well.

Yes, The Duelunds are very expensive obviously! But they do blow me away:yes: as I find them to be well ahead of many acceptable capacitors one could use.

So I wish the best in your endeavor's to get the most from Fortes

I look forward to hearing of your results :thmbsp:

SET12

 

[Brinkman]

Okay. So today is my first day off with all the parts I need to finish my Forte crossovers (week off before summer term starts!). Before I wire everything together, I have a question: is there a right and wrong way to wire an inductor? I can see that there's inner and outer wire-ends on each of my inductors and don't know which direction to wire them.

Thanks guys.

 

[SET12]

Okay. So today is my first day off with all the parts I need to finish my Forte crossovers (week off before summer term starts!). Before I wire everything together, I have a question: is there a right and wrong way to wire an inductor? I can see that there's inner and outer wire-ends on each of my inductors and don't know which direction to wire them.

Thanks guys.

Not that I'm aware of! Although it would be best to wire them the same way for symmetricalness of the field effects remember you don't want metal around the air core inductors due to influence of Q loss.

My own Low Frequency Inductors start at the outer winding with the inner connected to the woofer. The tweeter inductor is at 90 degrees to the Low Inductor.

SET12 :thmbsp:

 

[Brinkman]

Thanks.
Though I honestly don't know why I asked, as I've had Bob remount them and it had already occurred to me to just copy what he did.:twak:

Time to put the baby to sleep and warm up the soldering iron...

 

[SET12]

Time to put the baby to sleep and warm up the soldering iron...

Sounds like my kind of smoke

SET12

 

[Brinkman]

So I've been listening to my Fortes for a couple days now, with the left speaker completely modded out and the right speaker in stock form, with the exception of sonicap Gen I caps in the crossover and the titanium tweeter diaphragm...
And I'm really blown away by the differences. The difference in clarity that each respective channel puts out is actually causing some imaging issues, similar to what you'd hear if you mismatched a pair of speakers.

I've evaluated each speaker through a series of non-technical tests, almost exclusively with mono recordings. I've done back-to-back driver comparisons, with my ear directly in front of them, as well as a distances futher away (especially with the bass driver). A large amount of "sweet spot" stereoscopic listening was done, too. And in every case, the modified Forte was audibly better than the stock one. On certain material such as Sons of the Pioneers, though one specific driver-to-driver difference was rendered negligible (bass), the improvements made on a different driver (squawker) were magnitudes better.

Unfortunately, because I upgraded several components in the crossover at once, I am prevented from attributing driver-to-driver improvements to any one specific change. However, I will break down the changes made and my impressions below:

Bass: North Creek 12ga. 3mH Copper Inductor; Jantzen 47uF polypropylene CrossCap. In some ways, the most subtle of all changes was in the bass. That is, until you hear a recording with loads of low-end ambient detail on the drums & bass (room sound). While the tonal quality never changed, the upgraded driver seemed to have a pitbull-like grip on the low-end resolution (duration & presense) that gave the impression of increased extension.

Mids: Bob Crites autoformer upgrade; 1uF Mundorf Supremes. This has got to be the most satisfying modification procedure I have ever performed. Until now, I had been dissatisfied with what sounded like my Forte's lower mid-level "dead-zone", as well as what I perceived as a veil over and attenuation of the mids in general. For several hours over the last two evenings, I have listened squawker-to-squawker on several recordings of varying styles and I can confirm that to my joy, the veil has been lifted. I would say it stops short of a panacea, as the mids still seem comparatively quiet, but I am incredibly delighted that it no longer feels like I am listening to music after having survived a car-bombing.
The tonal shift I hear, I am presuming is from the Mundorf cap. If so, it is a full-bodied, relaxed yet detailed cap that is capable of being bold without losing stride when the music calls for it. Not outrageously over-priced either, especially considering how widely praised it is. For the sake of simplicity and transparency, I can see how fun it would be to do some cap-rolling in this position. A tweaker's playground.

Tweeter: Bob Crites Titanium diaphragm upgrade; Solen 14 AWG .16mH Hepta-Litz inductors; 2 x 1.5uF Multicap RTXs. This evaluation is the most complicated, as every component in this portion of the crossover is different for each speaker, with the exception of the titanium diaphragms, so it's rather hard to suss out "who did what". Nonetheless, my "stock" Forte tweeter seemed less bright and edgy than I recall (before the titanium); they have a smoothness more consistent with the listening impressions of others. So I'll grant the diaphragm upgrades that. However, the bigger comparison includes the inductors and capacitors, and in that respect the improvement is considerable: the stock tweeter crossover still sounds lean and spitty in comparison to the fully upgraded tweeter. Horn-to-horn, the stock tweeter has a hissy tone without much dynamic, whereas with the Solen inductor and Multicaps, they are dynamic, rich and detailed without grain and pitch-black when it comes to noise.
The engineering embellishments from the all-analog era, studio tape echo on Sons of the Pioneers tracks or the tube-driven reverb-soaked guitar sounds of sixties garage bands for example, necessitate reproduction in a vinyl and tube system. And as the owner of a 1964 Fender Princeton and 1967 Fender Reverb Tank, I know what a guitar with tube reverb sounds like. I say this because I was astounded to hear reverb out of my modified tweeters; it was a flawless reproduction in every respect with the incredible detail and fundamental richness of the real thing. This is Forte refinement, right here.

Bottom Line: Even if you've recently recapped, upgrading the inductors, autotransformers & tweeters will significantly help your Forte. It'll be a night and day transformation again. If you haven't recapped yet, go the distance.

Recommendations:
I strongly suggest sending your crossovers to Bob Crites for the remount/recap. Not only is he the source of the autotransformers and tweeter upgrades in the first place, but it took me a day and a half to complete one crossover and Bob is several times faster and does superior work. He is well worth the money. On that note, if you provide him with your choice of capacitors and inductors (if you go all the way), he can install them all at once. NOTE: Performing all these changes means your crossovers will no longer fit inside the speaker enclosure. This means you will need to request at least a foot of extra length on all your driver wiring from your crossovers than is standard.

Disclosure: All comparisons were made using an entry-level Pro-Ject turntable, Bellari VP-129 phono pre and modified Dynakit ST-70. All equipment was allowed to warm-up at least an hour before comparisons, and no tube-rolling was performed during comparisons.

I will edit this post soon so I can include images.

-Brinkman

 

[silversport]

I have had Bob upgrade two sets of Heresys and one set of Quartets (Forte' IIs slightly 'lil brother) and have been VERY pleased with every aspect...more clarity and it is nice to know that they are at brand new spec while in at least the Quartets case, I removed the XOs from the speaker terminal cups taking the stress off of that...I have also upgraded the XOs on my Academy (popbumper) and a single Heresy (DeanG) and have been equally pleased with the results there too...really worth it on these older speakers...
Bill

 

[SET12]

Brinkman,

Very nice write up :thmbsp: I also look forward to your pictures :yes:

A few words on your experiences which basically parallel mine in regards to Bass, Mids, Tweeters

I might add that it is certainly easier for me with my outboard quick change connectors to change parts in a few minutes which I have done a few comparisons of components.

Bass: For the most part a large Air Core inductor here can come across as just a subtlety in improvement, but as you go through your recording collection you may find yourself throwing your neck out cause you heard a bass line that you just never heard before! This is still happening to me.

The grip is certainly there as well as more warmth. With the few who have heard my Fortes before and after as well as other Fortes all have commented on this aspect as well as saying it sounds like there is a sub in the room.

Of course my SET amplifiers are partially responsible as well for their warmth,power and speed do to the sheer size and speed of their power supplies. I use 1800uf/mono-block. I also use no chokes and almost nothing for my pie filter as well as a few other tricks.

Mids: I found the Autotransformer initially bright to me I believe it has greater bandwidth it also has substantially more air and detail. I was thinking of removing it. Instead I installed the tweeters and was shocked at the nice combination which I didn't expect! But the cap and auto-former certainly work together all caps here are very audibly different from one another and of course the Duelund has been one remarkable cap for me. Making the Mundorf that it replaces sound sometimes etched but the Mundorf is a far cry better than the Hovlands and their MIT RTX bypasses that I was using in the past. A tweaker's playground you bet!

Tweeters Unfortunately The Solen 14 ga. Inductors were down right a bad combination for me using the Mundorf Silver/Oils I tried a different cap in my amp with some avail but thought I was sacrificing what I was hearing from the Duelund in the mids which I just loved. Of course I was using my North Creek 8 ga .16mh inductor before I switched based on ALK's Q measurement tests which showed heavy losses for the North Creek in comparison so I gave them a shot!

But those Solens proved to be just to much! So I put back the North Creeks especially since I have a sizable investment in the 4 Mundorf Silver/Oils and I have been in bliss ever since! I listen to a lot of Jazz and the cymbols are to die for! just right IMO and even one my local club members that I hold in very high esteem thought the same.

I know the RTX's that your using are very,very smooth and very dynamic in my experience but you might just go back to the stock inductor and my guess is you'd be very surprised.

:scratch2:The only thing that I can think of here that explains this phenomena that I experienced is that the Titanium has great resolve and needs some degree of the relaxing its vision while giving a great panoramic view with body and color.

So I think the Q factor probably is an influence here.

In Closing

I feel the larger inductors that I'm using do impart a greater warmth and body. I have found this to be true with output transformers as well. But it is said that its hard to get good performance when they are large. But all I can say is the 28lb 75 watt SET Hammonds that I've been using for some yrs are breathless with my 10 watt 572 in the same way that these crossover mods are for me and you!

Great Work :thmbsp:

SET12

 

[SET12]

I have had Bob upgrade two sets of Heresys and one set of Quartets (Forte' IIs slightly 'lil brother) and have been VERY pleased with every aspect...more clarity and it is nice to know that they are at brand new spec while in at least the Quartets case, I removed the XOs from the speaker terminal cups taking the stress off of that...I have also upgraded the XOs on my Academy (popbumper) and a single Heresy (DeanG) and have been equally pleased with the results there too...really worth it on these older speakers...
Bill

I'll second that Bill :thmbsp:

SET12

 

[Brinkman]

Just an update for any followers of this thread.

I still haven't finished the second crossover, which is more a result of too little time than anything else, but I have to finish my speakers soon, as my girlfriend is sick of not being able to use the behemoths in the living room anytime I have a procedure to perform on them.

I also want to post pictures of my crossover board and their acrylic covers (when the crossovers are done), and all that will require is a bit of dremeling before the covers will fit properly.

Yet there's additional tweaks before I'm "done":

First off, the input terminal cups are removed which allows the wires from the crossovers to reach the drivers. I'm looking for replacement terminal cups I can modify so as to both seal the speaker enclosure and allow the wires in (I'll use a grommet). I have yet to find a terminal cup of matching diameter. Until then, my "open backed" Fortes bass response is less than optimal.

Second, I have observed that sitting on the floor with my ear at squawker-level has further enhanced the mid-range imaging. Rather than listen while sitting on the floor, I have decided to raise my Fortes off the floor a foot. Whatever I use to raise them with, the tops of them will have a layer of marble or granite upon which my Fortes will rest. I will also remove my the stock Forte risers and instead install toe spikes (which just arrived).

I got the blessing for these extra tweaks on the condition that the "risers" double as LP storage (what a deal!). I'm not too worried about resonances, as I'm pretty sure the granite/marble slab and toe spikes will mitigate that to a large degree.

I'll be back.

-Brinkman

 

[SET12]

Brinkman,

:scratch2: I know what your going through!

What I did for speaker binding post cup as you put it, was to measure the outside Dia. of the cup and have my local metal shop cut me some plates from a decent thickness sheet metal and I drilled them out to replace my round stock cups which I have 3 sets of 5 way binding post's that I purchased from Radio Shack some yrs ago that I now need to replace because the plastic has a tendency to turn around the metal that its pressed on to but perhaps they have gotten better I don't know! But I'm sure you might be able to find something like this perhaps.

I know most of the guys like to use the terminal strips found on the K-Horn networks which is out for me as I use spades due to the large diameter wire I use.

My networks themselves are equipped with Pomona gold over brass 5 way binding posts they are kind of expensive @ 8-9$ a piece but they have held up very well for me and I'm using 16 of them with mounting bases for pairs. one could spend a lot more and I suppose they might be a bit much for some.

You can get quite a few colors as well!

I don't think these bases are the correct ones I show here. But they can be gotten for not to much.

At Pomona's Web site you can scroll down to the model 5018 if you click on stock availability they will list sites that directly link you companies selling them with a price. A nice site and feature IMO.

http://www.pomonaelectronics.com/index.php?i=prodsub&parent=HWARE&cat=BCNPOSTS&getDetails=







It took a lot of thought and planing for my project which I had done in advance.

I used Audioquest speaker wire internally and externally to my networks and individual strands on the network itself that I picked up for a steal! Like some 1500$ worth for 150$ maybe some High-End audio stores have bushel baskets full used and sell many brands for pennies on the dollar.

I ended up using the following

Audioquest "Clear" amp to network

Audioquest "Midnight" woofers

Audioquest "Indigo" mids and tweeters

To terminate all this was to strip about 400 individual strands and crimp some 56 spades it was a lot of work but worth the resulting sound IMO.

So yes it does take some time.

As to raising the Fortes I tried that about the same height you are but I found the Bass extension and body was to much for me to give up. Instead I opted on the advice of one of my local audio club members to tilt them back which puts them about 2 in. at the top of them leaning back. Which benefited image height, As well as a more intimate mid-range I to will be using spikes soon.

I'm sure in the end you can use a conventional Klipsch style terminal strip mounted to a metal plate and use silicone possibly to seal the grommet and wire.
I look forward to seeing pictures of your hard work! :yes:

SET12

 

[Brinkman]

Thanks for the suggestions.

There's actually a slight chance the replacement terminal cups I have will work after all. They just barely fit across the diameter of the hole. I think that if I get the grommet installed (with the wires through the grommet), I can then lay lie the speaker on it's face and use a few tiny dabs of carpenter's glue (at 12, 3, 6 & 9 o'clock) to hold the cup in place, then seal the edges with silicone.

If I ever have to sell my Fortes yikes, I can then remove the replacement terminal cup with a slight, firm tap with a rubber mallet and then install the stock ones, assuming that's what the buyer would prefer.

As you may have gathered, I've been running the wires from my crossover terminal strip directly to the drivers, with no input terminals or plugs to interrupt them. No cap is the best cap, as they say, and I feel the same way about plugs and terminals. Merely better-than-garden-variety speaker cable in thick gauges and short runs is pretty much where I stand...

Then again, I've spent more on RCA plugs than speaker wire, so go figure.

BTW, how does raising the Fortes affect the bass extension? I thought bass presence was a function of the passive radiator with respect to it's distance from a wall. If simply raising them off the floor diminishes the bass, won't the same happen if I use toe spikes?

-Brinkman

 

[welborne]

Forte-II crossover mod

Dear all,

I have been reading the fascinating post here. I am another Forte-II owner.

While I like the overall sound of the Forte-II, I do find there is a boxiness and muddiness in the mid-bass and bass region. This also gives a "slow" sensation in some music which has a lot mid-bass in the recordings. I have almost sent the Forte-Ii down the road until I got an Eico HF-81 one week ago and started to like the Forte-II more than before.

I would like to know if a new crossover upgrade such as those from Chris Munson or Bob Crites would address the problem I mentioned, especially the boxiness. I admit I don't have golden ears that are sensitive to subtle change in sound due to capacitor change in upstream components or speaker cabling change etc and that's why I have not been a fan of fancy and expensive cable rolling. I do hear a big difference of sound when my Eico HF-81 arrived and it totally transformed my Forte-II into a different speaker. Now I like the Forte-II but to want to know if spending a bit more on crossover can get rid of the muddy bass. etc.

Hope i can hear from the experience here

Welborne

 

[SET12]

Dear all,

I have been reading the fascinating post here. I am another Forte-II owner.

While I like the overall sound of the Forte-II, I do find there is a boxiness and muddiness in the mid-bass and bass region. This also gives a "slow" sensation in some music which has a lot mid-bass in the recordings. I have almost sent the Forte-Ii down the road until I got an Eico HF-81 one week ago and started to like the Forte-II more than before.

I would like to know if a new crossover upgrade such as those from Chris Munson or Bob Crites would address the problem I mentioned, especially the boxiness. I admit I don't have golden ears that are sensitive to subtle change in sound due to capacitor change in upstream components or speaker cabling change etc and that's why I have not been a fan of fancy and expensive cable rolling. I do hear a big difference of sound when my Eico HF-81 arrived and it totally transformed my Forte-II into a different speaker. Now I like the Forte-II but to want to know if spending a bit more on crossover can get rid of the muddy bass. etc.

Hope i can hear from the experience here

Welborne

First off let me welcome you to AK :thmbsp:

I haven't heard a pair of Forte II's some say they are close, and some say the Forte II's are a little forward. And there are some that prefer the Forte 1's I'm sure someone will chime in here!!!

There is much to talk about! Where to begin!:scratch2: Well lets take a look at the Forte II crossover schematic.

View attachment forte2.pdf

In contrast to the Forte I (posted on page 2 of this thread) the crossovers are very similar in design to each other other than values.

I fully endorse at least upgrading the caps at the very least. Due to as BEC points out increasingly high ESR values robing the music! And if you want more control IMO buy the biggest low frequency Air Core Inductors you can afford! I found the tweeters large inductor worth while also. and while I'm at it BEC's Auto Transformer for the mids was a serious improvement to! Read on...

Klipch's Web site says nominal impedance for a Forte I is 8 ohms but on my Terminal cup it says 4 ohm's nominal. The woofer is 4 ohms as I measured it. While the mid and tweeter are 8 ohm approx.

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/forte.aspx

I also see we have different woofers I have the K-23

While the Forte II has the K-25-K which just might be 8 ohms?

http://www.klipsch.com/products/discontinued/details/forte-ii.aspx

If you have a Digital meter perhaps you can put it across the terminals and see if it really is 4 ohms or 8 ohms?

I found a little thread here

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/24443/24443.aspx


One thing you can try is running the Fortes on the 8 ohm tap instead of the 4 ohm or perhaps you already are! Which case try the 4 ohm. In which case if the woofer is 4 ohms and you were using the 8 ohm tap you might notice a bit more control and grunt!

In my case I was running on the 4 ohm tap and discovered that the 8 ohm was the ticket for me as the mids and top end developed greater body and had much more authority. I gave very little up in the bass in the way of body and dynamics. So the 8 ohm tap was a hands down winner to use.

Ok back to the crossovers!

After living with these very large North Creek Air Core Inductors for a few yrs now and having a friend with a stock pair of Fortes to A-B I am not a fan iron core inductors even though they appear to be more efficient and less costly. The large air cores that I have, exhibit control that seems to be that of an iron fist at least with my amps anyway. I haven't heard the Eico but I have seen its schematic and I liked what I saw in its power amp section. I can't rule out some of my transformer outputs control either at 28lbs of iron each.

I can tell you that the Forte I that I have is still playing bass lines that still surprise me and although they aren't perfect mine are amazingly taught and quick!

I use CD direct also, I once had a Peach II here which is very popular with Klipsch people. Unfortunately it was not to the level to the best that I have heard so I guess I'm spoiled. It is a fine preamp very musical. but when it was inserted I heard a distinct loss in transparency and that's a no,no for me. And the bass was very tubey and too loose to my taste.

So in the end I believe in the voicing of crossover components much like one chooses electronics. I found all of the parts where audible some good and some very bad! Pretty amazing.:yes:

So whether you go with K-stacks or BEC's you'll hear change. If you go the BEC route it may afford you the opportunity of some easy cap changes with the room that he has. Or you could put one together yourself.

One thing for sure, I'd get his Titanium tweeters for sure!

And last, I have never had so much enjoyment And I've spent thousands more in the past.

SET12

 

[welborne]

Thanks, i am really looking forward to the result

 

[SET12]

Thanks, i am really looking forward to the result

I'm looking forward to hearing of it to!

Now whats interesting is over on the Klipsch 2 channel Forum there is a Klipsch Palladium P-39F listening party going on in Hartford, WI. Saturday August 9th.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/107454.aspx

Of course the Palladium is Klipsch's new $15,000 flagship loudspeaker.

I plan on attending this event . The Engineers at Klipsch have worked long and hard on this speaker and it should be very interesting to hear.

:scratch2: Further more it will be interesting to gauge just how much of a value these extreme mod's I have done are.

Especially in light of DIYers who I have read of boldly making the statement that for every $1 spent is $10 gotten back in performance....???

SET12

 

[alteklipsch]

First off let me welcome you to AK :thmbsp:

I haven't heard a pair of Forte II's some say they are close, and some say the Forte II's are a little forward. And there are some that prefer the Forte 1's I'm sure someone will chime in here!!!

There is much to talk about! Where to begin!:scratch2: Well lets take a look at the Forte II crossover schematic.

View attachment 100614

In contrast to the Forte I (posted on page 2 of this thread) the crossovers are very similar in design to each other other than values.

I fully endorse at least upgrading the caps at the very least. Due to as BEC points out increasingly high ESR values robing the music! And if you want more control IMO buy the biggest low frequency Air Core Inductors you can afford! I found the tweeters large inductor worth while also. and while I'm at it BEC's Auto Transformer for the mids was a serious improvement to! Read on...

Klipch's Web site says nominal impedance for a Forte I is 8 ohms but on my Terminal cup it says 4 ohm's nominal. The woofer is 4 ohms as I measured it. While the mid and tweeter are 8 ohm approx.

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/forte.aspx

I also see we have different woofers I have the K-23

While the Forte II has the K-25-K which just might be 8 ohms?

The Forte II is indeed a little forward, I have been wanting to buy some autoformers from Crites and take them back a tap. Out of the box, the original Forte sounds better than the Forte II.

The K-23-K and K-25-K are virtually identical, the only difference is the K-25-K out of the Forte II has a vented voice coil.
It is interesting that Klipsch rates the Forte at 98dB 1 watt and the Forte II at 99dB 1 watt with same bass extension. I think it is the Forte II horn being a little hotter.