Modified Forte 1 Upgrades-Bob Crites Autotransformers and Titanium Tweeters

[SET12]

Hello everyone.

So I've been listening to my Fortes with the Mundorf MCap Supremes in the squawker crossover, bypassed with 0.1uF Russian FT-3s. The caps in my tweeter are internally bypassed foil/polystyrene Multicaps and I was happy with their resolution (smooth, detailed, dynamic), so I decided to bypass my Mundorfs with the foil/teflon FT-3s. The tweeter/squawker crossover now sounds perfectly seamless and cohesive, with the horns really dissolving behind the music.

Others have noted that the FT-3 seems to boost presentation a bit, which is what I was counting on as my ears have always wanted a bit more mids, especially in the lower-mid region. They do indeed seem to have this effect, even as a bypass.

My only complaint is that now the woofer needs more compensation and/or presense to bring it back to what I formerly thought was only a negligable low-end improvement when the Fortes were running off 4-ohm taps.

Perhaps some sound meter experimentation and raising my fortes off the ground a bit will even out the presentation...

-Brinkman

I tried raising mine but I wasn't satisfied with the low end response to much lost.

I believe this is the irony of the 4 ohm vs 8 ohm connection with some amplifiers yielding various results.

I think you told me that you had to do some soldering to switch taps a real pain I bet.

But if you go back to the 4 ohm the lush mids will lean out and suffer dynamically IMO.

I went back to 4 ohm tap and just as fast went back again to the 8 ohm tap. They just draw me in.

There are a couple of things to try if you care to!

The first is the simplest! Remember when I mentioned your choke?

From my own experience with high DCR's in the power path they can have a substantial effect on the amps dynamic response. With my amp I'm at just milli ohms.

I took a 100 ohm resistor out of a pilot amplifier circuit and its dynamics went through the roof! I asked my buddy if he wanted it back in? After he heard it. He told me you want your arm broke?

Short out the choke with a jumper after the caps are discharged and give it a listen that choke is 60 ohms DCR. I think you'd be surprised! The b+ will rise about 12 volts nothing really significant.

The very popular EICO HF81 runs its output stage in exactly in this manner I can send you the schematic if you care to look at it.

I got it I'm not the most savy with editing software but here is a partial view of the schematic



I prefer pentodes connected in Pentode mode as I find the pentode mode even more dynamic than Ultra Linear IMO Just as the HF81 is here.

The second thing that I wanted to try is using another active woofer in reverse phase wired in series you'd use two networks for the woofers or a new single one for the series pair.

It certainly would put the bass back with a vengeance! if you ask me! It would make the Forte easier to drive for us tube lovers.

I'm no speaker designer but I know the efficiency will stay the same anyway! Its got to rock! And I for one want to try it!

Cheers

SET12

 

[Brinkman]

I've considered jumpering my choke, but it doesn't make sense to do until after I install my new power supply board into the ST70. The new board is only a revision of the older SDS Labs board offered by Triode Electronics. This time around there is bypass caps, and the electrolytics I chose are low-ESR Panasonic TSEDs. I also soldered in a couple Mills wirewound and will install a Fairchild Stealth diode for the bias supply. To get to the point, I am going for a low-resistance, low-noise, grain-free power supply. After I see where my B+ is at (currently it is suspiciously low:scratch2, I'll attempt bypassing the choke.

As for the Fortes, I am resurrecting an old bi-amping notion I had. I was given a Scott integrated amplifier that needs some serious TLC. The circuit board is covered in sticky goo and cat hair and smells a bit like cat piddle. If I ever end up making a crossover, it'll be tubes for the horns and (4-ohm) SS for the woofers.

 

[SET12]

I've considered jumpering my choke, but it doesn't make sense to do until after I install my new power supply board into the ST70. The new board is only a revision of the older SDS Labs board offered by Triode Electronics. This time around there is bypass caps, and the electrolytics I chose are low-ESR Panasonic TSEDs. I also soldered in a couple Mills wirewound and will install a Fairchild Stealth diode for the bias supply. To get to the point, I am going for a low-resistance, low-noise, grain-free power supply. After I see where my B+ is at (currently it is suspiciously low:scratch2, I'll attempt bypassing the choke.

As for the Fortes, I am resurrecting an old bi-amping notion I had. I was given a Scott integrated amplifier that needs some serious TLC. The circuit board is covered in sticky goo and cat hair and smells a bit like cat piddle. If I ever end up making a crossover, it'll be tubes for the horns and (4-ohm) SS for the woofers.

Just some thoughts,

Yes, The Panasonic's are nice I use them myself. And bypasses help with transparency.

But the choke bypass will have an even greater impact for dynamic response IMO. I was using Cerifine's and these are even better than the Panasonic's when I experimented with removing the 100 ohm resistor from the supply path and I would imagine the 60 ohm DCR should be just as audible.

The Fairchild should be a nice addition.

I have a Curico Dyna ST70 here that has supply problems that a friend owns I suspect a power transformer issues. The stock power trans is just marginal so they have a tendency not to last long. Two mods I will be doing to it are the choke and an AC bypass for the series pass regulator transistor. The Curico is pretty sophisticated mod in itself.

Is the Scott an Integrated Tube amp?

:scratch2:If it is, You could get a taste of what the Scott can really do by wiring in a set of RCA jacks to its power amp section. By bypassing all the old crappy controls and switches,tone controls with there additional gain stages you'd likely be shocked at the transparency as my best friend was when I did this to his Pilot Integrated Amp he then decided to put the power amp on a new chassis and it became the Beautiful Brass amp that you probably have seen which was enough to catch the eye of Michael LaFevre of Magnequest Transformers.

Several yrs ago in Sound Practices Magazine I saw a method of doing bi-amping without using external electronic networks that add additional gain stages that add there own effects to the sound.

It was done internally to the amps! With the coupling network for the amps internal gain stages. Very cool if I do say so myself!

Cheers

SET12

 

[SET12]

Several yrs ago I saw a method of doing bi-amping without using external electronic networks that add additional gain stages that add there own effects to the sound.

It was done internally to the amps! With the coupling network for the amps internal gain stages. Very cool if I do say so myself!

Here is an example. Its what I would do if I wanted to bi or tri amp

View attachment Internal Amplifier Crossover networks.pdf


SET12

 

[tomelex]

the sound of SET12's system

having recently heard SET12s system, i thought i might add a few notes on my general impressions.

in a word DYNAMIC :yes:

as if you had not already guessed!

although SET12 has electronic scopes and meters and gizmos and stuff, and the technical know how, in the final analysis he judges his system by ear, as far as i can tell.

it seems his passion for dynamics runs the gamut from his source be it cd or phono (for cd note the burson mods and absolutely unique power supply mods), his amplifier (super fast power supplies and technical wizardry) and finally his speakers (all the mods seen at AK).

it seems to me everything is designed to get out of the way of transients and light speed details of the music.

one only has to look at his various threads here and elsewhere to see an unyielding drive for dynamics in the music.

well, in no other system that i have heard, has there been such a realization of that goal!

its not first row, its in the mike!


the stage is well past the edges of the speakers, by more than a yard (the walls come into play so how much wider i dont know) either side. the height is similar across the stage. on some music, it is much more above the speakers! :yes: instruments occupy their own spaces and the image stays focused and palatable.

the system is very engaging and gets your attention NOW!

:jawdrop:







one thing though, for a first time listener of this system, the dynamics can be a little overwhelming at first! especially for one used to listening to a system that is more laid back.

however, you quickly realize that there is a lot more dynamics to the music one usually listens to as i confirmed by listening to several cuts from some of my favorite cds. WOW what a difference! :thmbsp:

i am now a firm believer in dynamics and after striving for harmony in my system then dynamics is the new goal for this set of ears!

thank you SET12 for showing the zen of dynamics!

:ntwrthy:

freedom! tomelex

 

[theclipper]

Hello SET12 and others,:wave:

I have been a lurker of this board for quite some time. I decided to post in this thread as I have a pair of Forte IIs and was hoping for some help.There really is a great and helpful audio enthusiast community, and I am very grateful to have found this board.

I am now feeling pretty satisfied with my all my gear but would really appreciate some help on how to properly place my speakers as well as any cheap tweaks I could do. In particular I was wondering if you could provide me with a link to the exact model of spikes you used. I would love to give those a shot as they seem a cheap way at an upgrade. I really want to try to get the image up more vertical.

I provided a link to a photo page that has a few of my set-up. My current gear is; Forte II (upgraded xovers, also Crites titanium tweeters), Fisher 400 (restored by Craig), Rega P1 (w/Denon DL-160 cart). I couldn't believe what a difference it made to upgrade the crossovers, everything is just so much more clear now. I had them done by Dean who posts on the Klipsch boards. I had never really even experienced a soundstage before hooking my speakers up to my Fisher.

I just remembered that I always hear a slight hiss coming from my tweeters, is that just probably because the Rega P1 isn't a super great source?

I now am trying to get the proper set-up to maximize my sound and the soundstage, and sweetspot. My speakers are in a room that is about 10' wide and 18' deep. The wall next to the left speaker is mainly windows from ceiling to floor. The wall on the right speaker is not much taller than the speaker and serves as a divider between the family room and kitchen. Also, as you can see in one of the pictures, the wall kind of juts out a bit in front of the speaker. In the back of the room on the right side there is a wood burning stove that sits up about a foot on a bricked platform. I sit on a junky old couch that is about 7'8'' back from the speakers. The speakers are about 16'' off the back wall, while the right one is 19'' off the dividing wall, and the left is about a foot off its side wall. They sit about 5' apart from each other. If anyone could provide any feedback with how I would be best to set these up I would greatly appreciate it. I am willing to move them anywhere as long as I can get some great sound from them! Please let me know if I can provide anymore info that would be helpful.

This ended up being quite a long post, I'm sorry about that, I'm just very new to this and always have a bunch of questions, any feedback would be sincerely appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/wolford.chris/SoundSystem?authkey=kjL9iPFnVi8#5289048206581223330

Thanks so much!
-Clipper

 

[SET12]

Clipper,

Welcome to AK!

Well you definitely have the right ideas. Tubes, Forte's, Crossover Mods, Analog. :thmbsp:

The room :scratch2: Set up is very important :yes: And unfortunately it looks as though your in pretty rough shape and there's probably not much you can do to I bet. And I suppose a long wall isn't an option as it was hard to tell from the photo's and I bet there is a door on the long wall with the window.

So I think your out of luck unfortunately.

I share my listening room 14 x 18 with my girlfriend in that I have to have AV gear between the speakers and love seat and chair and other stuff and I thought I had it bad! I have compromises, but I have nowhere near the issues your dealing with.

I think your not going to hear the full potential of what you have till you get the space to do so.

Setup is perhaps one of the most neglected things in audio, And you can find many setup methods on the web to try. I have heard many expensive systems that should have sounded very, very good only to perform poorly.

So much of setup is taste and some people have good taste and some don't. On the other side of the coin there are situations where we have no real control and just have to make do. And it appears thats the case with you.

So if your asking me what is the Forte ideal?

IMO what I like, Its important to have two symmetrical corners, as this reflects the recordings room ambiance evenly displaying acoustic space and size.

Without this you get suck outs that distort the sound stages recorded size and you'll lose some lateral imaging capacity a trait that my Fortes just excel at. Its also related to the rest of the systems capacity to project this as well as some amplifiers don't get much wider than the width of the speakers.

In my case I have heard imaging well beyond my side walls and they are 4.5 feet away from each speaker with the speakers themselves being 9 ft apart I am never more than a foot from the back wall I have them toed in slightly which increases the sweet spot width. I have also listened with them straight ahead as well. Its system dependent of course and can be music dependent to. I also have a great sense of layering with a very deep sound stage.

So you understand I prefer a wide, deep sound stage with the speakers disappearing as much as possible.

The astonishing thing is with the mods I have done the Fortes do it :yes:

Vertical imagining with Audio Points did improve the height they are expensive like $180 for the 6 points and inserts.

http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com/index.htm

Robert told me what they do is divert energy away from the cabinet allowing the drivers to form a rounder acoustic output resulting in a taller image. His claim is that the engineered shape of the points promotes this. And some points competitors points may attempt to do the same but not to the extent that theirs do. They have been in business a long time with their Science of Energy Transfer.

All I can tell you is they work!

And they don't have on line buying because they want you to have the right points and I'm glad I did call or I would of gotten the wrong ones.

They are a first class company! If you call ask for Robert!

http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com/index.htm

I now have some more Star Sound Audio Points for my Crossovers but haven't install them as of yet.

And I have Brass inserts and Brass bolts for all the drivers as well yet to install. This alone will be pretty dramatic. But I don't doubt what Robert has suggested to me putting points on my outboard crossovers will further my systems performance again.

If you have to go on the cheap and at least your getting brass I would go with these guys. and go with the longer spikes. The shorter wider ones are for gear to slow mechanical motion or transformer resonance down. From what Robert told me.

http://www.oregondv.com/spikes.htm

Its very important to control primary reflection points because when you do the secondaries are greatly diminished.

One of my best treatments for this is Corner Tunes, I have Room Tunes I purchased yrs ago they get rid of the rooms corner effects. just cup your hands together and speak into them and you'll here the effect of what a corner in the ceiling is doing to your sound. Using these allows more room overload capacity and gives the room a greater sense of ease.:thmbsp:

More later!

Yes, I write a lot to

SET12

 

[theclipper]

SET12,

Thank you very much for the very informative post! Its people like you that help me along my learning pathway.

It is unfortunate that my room is so poor in terms of sound quality. I'd like to try the long wall but I would really have no place at all for the couch as the room is not very wide. And that is the walkway to the room, the roomates would not be happy. That is the best I have for now though, my bedroom is way too small for these and already crammed with junk. I will be sure to look for a better potential audio room in my next place!

I didn't realize those spikes were so expensive, I am still thinking about getting them though as I would love to get the soundstage to be taller. Do you think they would be worth it or is there a cheaper different type of upgrade that would do more for my sound right now?

Also, if I do go that route, I see you have 3 per speaker. Are they all the same height I take it? Wasn't sure if the back one was as tall.

Hey Gang,

One other thing I just thought of:

Another issue I'm having and I don't know how to properly explain this but will do my best. I can get a placement where the singer sounds like he is in the middle of the image for the most part. Then there will be a lisp-type sound or imperfection in the vocal and that part will totally sound likes its coming from one of the speakers. To my ears this usually seems to draw me to the right speaker. I guess I'm trying to say that the speakers sound like there not present when its working right then there will be some little blip and one of the speakers will really present itself. It is distracting, I was wondering if this was something normal or what may be causing it? :scratch2:

One last thing I just thought of, do any of you have any component rack reccomendations? I would like to keep this under $500. Would this really make a perceivable change in the sound in my case? I guess I shouldn't be spending the money if it won't help me out. I know it would look better but I'm not concerned about that right now.

Well, I think that is it for now. This is quite the exciting journey. I started off with some junky Sony speakers, sony TT, and a cheapo reciever. Over the course of the past 6 months I have really made a difference in the sound that I am producing. This all thanks to the wonderful community in cyberspace!

Thanks much,

-Clipper

Clipper,

Welcome to AK!

Well you definitely have the right ideas. Tubes, Forte's, Crossover Mods, Analog. :thmbsp:

The room :scratch2: Set up is very important :yes: And unfortunately it looks as though your in pretty rough shape and there's probably not much you can do to I bet. And I suppose a long wall isn't an option as it was hard to tell from the photo's and I bet there is a door on the long wall with the window.

So I think your out of luck unfortunately.

I share my listening room 14 x 18 with my girlfriend in that I have to have AV gear between the speakers and love seat and chair and other stuff and I thought I had it bad! I have compromises, but I have nowhere near the issues your dealing with.

I think your not going to hear the full potential of what you have till you get the space to do so.

Setup is perhaps one of the most neglected things in audio, And you can find many setup methods on the web to try. I have heard many expensive systems that should have sounded very, very good only to perform poorly.

So much of setup is taste and some people have good taste and some don't. On the other side of the coin there are situations where we have no real control and just have to make do. And it appears thats the case with you.

So if your asking me what is the Forte ideal?

IMO what I like, Its important to have two symmetrical corners, as this reflects the recordings room ambiance evenly displaying acoustic space and size.

Without this you get suck outs that distort the sound stages recorded size and you'll lose some lateral imaging capacity a trait that my Fortes just excel at. Its also related to the rest of the systems capacity to project this as well as some amplifiers don't get much wider than the width of the speakers.

In my case I have heard imaging well beyond my side walls and they are 4.5 feet away from each speaker with the speakers themselves being 9 ft apart I am never more than a foot from the back wall I have them toed in slightly which increases the sweet spot width. I have also listened with them straight ahead as well. Its system dependent of course and can be music dependent to. I also have a great sense of layering with a very deep sound stage.

So you understand I prefer a wide, deep sound stage with the speakers disappearing as much as possible.

The astonishing thing is with the mods I have done the Fortes do it :yes:

Vertical imagining with Audio Points did improve the height they are expensive like $180 for the 6 points and inserts.

http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com/index.htm

Robert told me what they do is divert energy away from the cabinet allowing the drivers to form a rounder acoustic output resulting in a taller image. His claim is that the engineered shape of the points promotes this. And some points competitors points may attempt to do the same but not to the extent that theirs do. They have been in business a long time with their Science of Energy Transfer.

All I can tell you is they work!

And they don't have on line buying because they want you to have the right points and I'm glad I did call or I would of gotten the wrong ones.

They are a first class company! If you call ask for Robert!

http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com/index.htm

I now have some more Star Sound Audio Points for my Crossovers but haven't install them as of yet.

And I have Brass inserts and Brass bolts for all the drivers as well yet to install. This alone will be pretty dramatic. But I don't doubt what Robert has suggested to me putting points on my outboard crossovers will further my systems performance again.

If you have to go on the cheap and at least your getting brass I would go with these guys. and go with the longer spikes. The shorter wider ones are for gear to slow mechanical motion or transformer resonance down. From what Robert told me.

http://www.oregondv.com/spikes.htm

Its very important to control primary reflection points because when you do the secondaries are greatly diminished.

One of my best treatments for this is Corner Tunes, I have Room Tunes I purchased yrs ago they get rid of the rooms corner effects. just cup your hands together and speak into them and you'll here the effect of what a corner in the ceiling is doing to your sound. Using these allows more room overload capacity and gives the room a greater sense of ease.:thmbsp:

More later!

Yes, I write a lot to

SET12

 

[SET12]

SET12,

One last thing I just thought of, do any of you have any component rack reccomendations? I would like to keep this under $500. Would this really make a perceivable change in the sound in my case? I guess I shouldn't be spending the money if it won't help me out. I know it would look better but I'm not concerned about that right now.

Thanks much,

-Clipper

I use a Target TT4 for my gear and Target amp stands but these aren't the latest you might go with but they serve me.

These are very popular

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/index.php

SET12

 

[theclipper]

SET12,

Thanks for the feedback , I'll have to check out those models. One other thing I realized is that there is a lot of hiss coming from my tweeters :thumbsdn:. This can be heard when nothing is playing or when it is a very quiet point in the record. Is this likely just do to my turntable not being top of the line? Or is there anyway I can reduce this, aside from turning down the volume.

-Clipper

I use a Target TT4 for my gear and Target amp stands but these aren't the latest you might go with but they serve me.

These are very popular

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/index.php

SET12

 

[SET12]

SET12,

Thanks for the feedback , I'll have to check out those models. One other thing I realized is that there is a lot of hiss coming from my tweeters :thumbsdn:. This can be heard when nothing is playing or when it is a very quiet point in the record. Is this likely just do to my turntable not being top of the line? Or is there anyway I can reduce this, aside from turning down the volume.

-Clipper

It sounds like your hearing tube rush. It's is a normal thing especially with tube phono and since you had it restored by Craig I would assume he made sure the tubes are in fine shape. The only alternative is to try some select very low noise phono tubes and that may cost! Then again it still could have a degree of tube rush.

SET12

 

[theclipper]

That's too bad that there isn't a good way to decrease the hiss.

I called staraudio the other day but got their answering machine. I think I will try back again today.

I have been doing some research and it seems like the general consensus is that spikes work better on a concrete floor. Do you think I would still get a good improvement using them on my floor which is thin carpet with wood underneath? Also, should all the spikes be the same size or is the back one shorter.

I'm sorry to bother you with all these questions. I just keep coming up with more things to be curious about as I continue to try to maximize my sound.

Thanks so much,
-Clipper

It sounds like your hearing tube rush. It's is a normal thing especially with tube phono and since you had it restored by Craig I would assume he made sure the tubes are in fine shape. The only alternative is to try some select very low noise phono tubes and that may cost! Then again it still could have a degree of tube rush.

SET12

 

[SET12]

That's too bad that there isn't a good way to decrease the hiss.

I called staraudio the other day but got their answering machine. I think I will try back again today.

I have been doing some research and it seems like the general consensus is that spikes work better on a concrete floor. Do you think I would still get a good improvement using them on my floor which is thin carpet with wood underneath? Also, should all the spikes be the same size or is the back one shorter.

I'm sorry to bother you with all these questions. I just keep coming up with more things to be curious about as I continue to try to maximize my sound.

Thanks so much,
-Clipper

Well their is a way to get lower noise levels as receivers are a compromise in design IMO. I'm sorry to say.

Its called separates.

I have a wood floor as well, He is going to recommend that all the spikes be the same height because the image from each of the drivers will be rounder from the energy drained, Therefore taller giving you the listener a sense of greater height.


SET12

 

[theclipper]

Thanks SET12, you have been a great help to me and always provide some great insight.

Maybe separates are something I can look into some day. I have been trying to call that company all week but I keep getting voice mail, its frustrating. Due to this situation and the reality that money is pretty tight right now I decided to place an order with OregonDV as they ended up being about $100 cheaper. I ordered (6) 2.1'' Brass Floor Cones / Speaker Spikes with 1/4-20 sized threads, they come with the proper inserts. I was hoping you could tell me where exactly you screwed in your inserts. It looks like the back one is directly in the center, but I'm not sure about the front two. I am a little nervous to do this installation as I have no real experience with a drill. Do you have any pointers as to how to get these in straight?

With my current set-up it seems the spikes are the most logical upgrade for my sound. But is there something I'm missing or should be looking at, room treatments possibly? Of course it would be great to get new components but I don't want to break the bank right now.

I am very excited and anxious to try these out and see what they do for me!

Thanks so much SET,
-Clipper

Well their is a way to get lower noise levels as receivers are a compromise in design IMO. I'm sorry to say.

Its called separates.

I have a wood floor as well, He is going to recommend that all the spikes be the same height because the image from each of the drivers will be rounder from the energy drained, Therefore taller giving you the listener a sense of greater height.


SET12

 

[SET12]

Thanks SET12, you have been a great help to me and always provide some great insight.

Maybe separates are something I can look into some day. I have been trying to call that company all week but I keep getting voice mail, its frustrating. Due to this situation and the reality that money is pretty tight right now I decided to place an order with OregonDV as they ended up being about $100 cheaper. I ordered (6) 2.1'' Brass Floor Cones / Speaker Spikes with 1/4-20 sized threads, they come with the proper inserts. I was hoping you could tell me where exactly you screwed in your inserts. It looks like the back one is directly in the center, but I'm not sure about the front two. I am a little nervous to do this installation as I have no real experience with a drill. Do you have any pointers as to how to get these in straight?

With my current set-up it seems the spikes are the most logical upgrade for my sound. But is there something I'm missing or should be looking at, room treatments possibly? Of course it would be great to get new components but I don't want to break the bank right now.

I am very excited and anxious to try these out and see what they do for me!

Thanks so much SET,
-Clipper

Clipper I would purchase some additional inserts at a local hardware store or Home Depot or wherever available for practice as I did.

I have an old wood bench that I put a couple of inserts in to try!

You can see this on page 8 of the thread. It gave me some confidence.

Also notice my tools, Use the bolt and nut to drive the insert in with the ratchet as you start notice the angle from a few different positions and as your turning stop and look again and adjust if you have to. I got mine in pretty straight. Also don't forget a drop of oil on the bolt threads which will make it easier to remove the bolt.

I was worried that my drill bit might be to big but it wasn't it ended up just right especially after seeing the insert going in and expanding the wood. Any smaller and the riser might have split! That would of not been good! But the hole should be centered as close as possible you might use a smaller bit to start the hole. Yes its close fit!

I would think you could find a local cabinet builder or wood shop if you have to!

But you can do it if your careful just give yourself plenty of room to work! And take your time!

If you look closely I placed the front two right at where the brace starts the back is centered.

I will be making the riser even more rigidly connected later by using inserts and brass threaded rods two/side of the riser for a total of 8 this should couple the acoustic energy even better.

Of course the real thing to hear is getting the drivers wood screw fasteners converted to the brass inserts and bolts a real job but after the riser the tension of possibly messing up is considerably lower.

As far as OregonDV I thought since they are brass they should give some beneficial response whether its near the Audio Points performance is another question but OregonDV points vs no points I certainly would rather have the OregonDV's than no points at all!

Heres the e-mail address that I have for Audio Points. I think I had better luck getting a hold of them this way!

sales@star​soundaudio.​com

As far as room treatments I do like Echo Busters methods.

http://www.echobusters.com/roomsetup.html

Which I have used to a degree especially the deaden front end,live back end concept. It gives a greater sense of space and ease to the sound.:thmbsp:

But the first thing to start with IMO is the Corner Busters getting rid of the megaphone effect is pretty huge IMO.

:scratch2:Also you might consider a DIY amp possibly in the future as its cost is substantially lower than buying one. Yes it will seem like a mountain at first but with a step at a time you'll get there and if you do a second it goes even faster and so on! Thats the way it was for me! I laugh at myself when I think back at spending some 10hrs reverse engineering an EL84 Single-Ended tube console circuit I found in the trash! 18 yrs ago. I now see that circuit just looking into space. I later designed and built a passive tube buffered preamp from its chassis and power supply.

Its easier now to do then when I started two decades ago especially with forums like this one!

If you getter done do post your pictures!

SET12

 

[xtreme4099]

You guys just opened up a can of worms for me.

Have a 7.1 setup that consists of

Forte II Fronts
Academy Center
Quartet Surrounds
Quartet Surround Backs
SVS PB12/Plus for Sub

 

[Normo]

Incredible thread. I don't have fortes I have a pair of la scalas and a pair of KLF 30s. I wish there was a thread like this for the klf 30's. Norm

 

[SET12]

You guys just opened up a can of worms for me.

Have a 7.1 setup that consists of

Forte II Fronts
Academy Center
Quartet Surrounds
Quartet Surround Backs
SVS PB12/Plus for Sub

Welcome to AK xtreme4099,

:scratch2: Applying modifications like these in this thread to a HT setup, no doubt would be an awaking for sure :yes:

Incredible thread. I don't have fortes I have a pair of la scalas and a pair of KLF 30s. I wish there was a thread like this for the klf 30's. Norm

Norm, If you really love the KLF30's?

No doubt in my mind you could get just as interesting results.

It starts with a schematic and you should be able to get it from Klipch's Service Dept. which e-mailed mine.

It all started when I saw North Creeks website and his work and especially these!!!

http://www.northcreekmusic.com/801web.html

I knew I wanted to have the option of easily trying various parts so I could voice my system to sound its best with my associated components.

What I never dreamed of is how much of an influence these really are to ones system.

The above B&W 801 stock network is the two boards on the left. The stock design was kept and new North Creek Inductors and caps of the same values were substituted.


The difference in sound is said to be astonishing!

I believe it! After hearing my own.

The same physical difference between the stock Forte network can be seen with my own outboard networks.

I can't say enough for these Air Core Chokes which aren't the prettiest! But I didn't buy them to be pretty! I bought them to sound good! And the tweeter inductor is so involving that after I trying a pretty Solen Hyper Litz and going back in minutes to the North Creek I realized just how good the the North Creeks were for a match to the Crites tweeters even though the Solen's "Q" Factor is superior.

After having my some of my local club members here for a listen. Many of them concluded that the Fortes produced the best sounding cymbals of any Klipsch's that they had heard.

The only Klipsch That I have heard that has a similar presentation is the Palladium 39F That I heard this past summer.

And IMO, The Forte Mids with Bob's improved Autotransformers along with the Duelund capacitors have been the "Forte of the Forte".

The low frequency inductor has been just as astonishing. In that the bass seems to have such body, and yet a greater degree of control almost SS like with much greater extension than the stock inductor. Worth every penny!

http://www.northcreekmusic.com/COILS.html

I do thank everyone for their comments and appreciation of these Forte mods.

SET12

 

[gyusher]

BK X-Overs woke up my Heresy II's. Made them much sharper, bigger soundstage and a brightness that I can't explain except to say that it is wonderful. . .

Since buying the HII X-Overs I have bought new BK X-Overs for my Forte II's and my Academy center channel that I will install this weekend. They came in yesterday.

I resisted the urge to throw them in yesterday as I want to refinish each cabinet as I did for the Heresys. I think by Sunday afternoon I'll be up and running with my all Klipsch HT system.

Found a mint pair of KG-2.5's for rear surround last week. Now it will be ,
Forte II (mains)
Academy (center)
Heresy II (rear)
KG-2.5 (rear surround)
SVS PB12nsd2 (dual 12in sub)
Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD display (50in plasma)
Pioneer Elite SC-05 Receiver (130wpc rating, 138wpc all channels driven)
HD DVR and Cable box
Sony 350 BD player (soon to be Pio Elite)

 

[SET12]

BK X-Overs woke up my Heresy II's. Made them much sharper, bigger soundstage and a brightness that I can't explain except to say that it is wonderful. . .

Since buying the HII X-Overs I have bought new BK X-Overs for my Forte II's and my Academy center channel that I will install this weekend. They came in yesterday.

I resisted the urge to throw them in yesterday as I want to refinish each cabinet as I did for the Heresys. I think by Sunday afternoon I'll be up and running with my all Klipsch HT system.

Found a mint pair of KG-2.5's for rear surround last week. Now it will be ,
Forte II (mains)
Academy (center)
Heresy II (rear)
KG-2.5 (rear surround)
SVS PB12nsd2 (dual 12in sub)
Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD display (50in plasma)
Pioneer Elite SC-05 Receiver (130wpc rating, 138wpc all channels driven)
HD DVR and Cable box
Sony 350 BD player (soon to be Pio Elite)

Looks like an enjoyable HT system. And good for you updating your crossovers:thmbsp:

And :yes: it can be dramatic no doubt!

SET12