MOJO AMT3 Next Gen V.1

[automojo]

Another benefit from separating the big coils/lf crossover to 2 boards is the lessening of electromagnetic interference between the LF inductors and the smaller MR/HF inductor coils.
Wharfedale did the same thing in the Super Linton.
Interesting also: they used a thick carboard tube for the midrange driver-like the AMT3..
Mojo Super AMT3 NG......

 

[automojo]

After 150 hours the caps have really settled in nicely. I have no reason to swap them out-it's a good match with this crossover.
Again-the bass is unreal with this setup.
Clean/ good to 30hz ....and being sealed easier to deal with placement wise.
But I would try to at least spend the time bracing the front baffle.
Cleaning up the cabinet vibrations, along with making the Alpha 6A, a very natural, but clean sounding driver-and the low distortion AL woofers makes these a real joy to listen to.
I have the walls lined with foam-and one single sheet of 1-1/2 foam behind the woofer.
Got rid of the addition 2-inch foam piece.
No Dacron needed.

 

[automojo]

 

[toddalin]

So, how abut a listen? A picture may be worth a thousand words, but a video is worth a whole lot more.

Thread 'Show us Videos of your systems! Let's see and hear them!'

Aug 6, 2017

I posted a couple videos in various threads, and thought it would be fun to hear our fellow AKer's setups. Consolidate it in one official video thread.
Small or big, SS or Tubes, whatever. Let's get to experience, get an idea, of each other's gear, a little hang time in each other's listening spaces!

Some of these you all have seen, but I'll officially kick it off!
Glenn

• GD70
• Replies: 8,600
• Forum: Speakers

• 

 

[automojo]

1st, I don’t post videos or do any of that stuff on YouTube
I’ve said it more than once I’m not interested
The driver specifications speak for themselves
Clean low distortion, efficient.
The woofers work well in small enclosures.
Very clean and low distortion.
Excellent track record, and design-like many Dayton drivers.
The Alpha 6A
Much of the same.
Proven, low distortion.
All readily available for reasonable pricing.
The whole point is to get them integrated and sounding as they should with the given enclosure.
You can have the best drivers in the world-and they won't sound nearly as good as lesser drivers that are well integrated into the speaker design, taking into account multiple variables that most successful modern manufactures do.
That’s why I got help, to take an account baffle size, driver placement etc, along driver parameters.
The same thing most commercial speaker manufacturers do.
Modern methods and techniques.
That’s frankly how you’re gonna get the best sound.
DIY, isn’t going to get you over that hump into a really great sounding speaker.
It moves it way beyond the DYI, guessing , wedges, endless videos, changes shifts.
Proven techniques that the commercial speaker industry, has been using for years.
And the end result has made it light years beyond what it was before
And certainly light years beyond your Merman FrankenChrist speaker.
Which is basically a couple boxes stacked on each each other.
But hey, enjoy what you got
Everyone’s got the capability of using the same services so go for it. It’s not that expensive!
I’m sure even your boxes could sound better.
And it’s a hell of a lot easier and less time-consuming then posting endless videos and proclamations
This project has always been about the ESS AMT3-a speaker that was manufactured here in the USA, marketed and sold.
Not 3 boxes.
Lot's of people have them and have enjoyed them.
And many realize there was much more potential.
That's what the project has always been about, and lots of people have benefited, and contributed over the years.
Plenty of evidence of that @ AK.
And along with contributing, adding enjoyment to their listening experience.
This final move, with professional help-was a natural last move-once the final drivers were settled on.
Again-all about the ESS AMT3-moving into the 21 century.
A speaker that does well on all genres-etc.

FET VALVE CFRB S​

No subs needed.
It was never simply about the Great Heil, nor 3 box FrankenChrist DIY's.
If you look into the origins of Porkloin, and myself's project, that's been the intent from day 1.
Years before your Mermaloid thread crashing....
I haven't seen one single Merman 3 box clone @AK to date....
Plenty of people upgrading their AMT3's....
Too bad Porkloin isn't around to appreciate this final version he would have been 100% onboard...........(10-9-2022) RIP

 

[automojo]

And one thing I have found-this last Gen really likes my Rogue Medusa, and I'm sure my arriving tomorrow Rogue Audio Dragon N( almost even trade for one of my two Atlas Magnum III Dark's
How Rogue makes these Class D amps sound like a giant tube amp (with high damping and huge bass drive) is simply amazing. Natural, clean and detailed.
The Great Heil really likes these amps. Along with the Audax Gold Dome tweet on my Tekton Lores.
The Audax, next to the Great Heil is my fav tweet.

 

[toddalin]

"The driver specifications speak for themselves"

A demonstration says a whole lot more, even over a "flawed" medium such as YouTube.

Defensive much?

 

[automojo]

"The driver specifications speak for themselves"

A demonstration says a whole lot more, even over a "flawed" medium such as YouTube.

Defensive much?

Defensive?
Baiting?
That's your Sol-Cal M.O. .....
aka burning down the house...
Ever wondered why I don't crash your threads?
I simply don't care......

Again, where are those Merman 3 box clones??
Nada....
Mermans have zero to do with AMT3's-except they use a Great Heil.

The Great Heil is a great driver.
But it does have its limitations with the big diaphragm.
Putting a wedge in front you might as well stick your thumb in front of it
Eh….
Frankly, at that point, you’re better off using the smaller Heils like the PS-1220 had.
The new crossover design , along with the standard Zcaps it’s done a great job of integrating everything you’re simply listening to a speaker.
Not the Great Heil and it’s adjoing parts.


And yes-the drivers do speak for themselves.
The Dayton woofers esp.
Clean deep bass, but the biggest thing is the work within the confinements of the relatively small 2.7 cu ft AMT3 enclosure, in a sealed bass box, without a mid bass hump in a dual woofer configuration.
Dayton Audio has really stepped up their game in this department understanding what consumers are looking for.
A huge deal IMHO.

Along with running simulations to fine tune them to the physical box, and relationship to the drivers.
Not just the TS parameters.
Not simply stacking 3 boxes and jamming a wedgie in the Heil's mouth.......not to mention the tiresome, overly bright sounding video's.......
Do you see real speaker manufacture doing this?
Of course not.

I came to the conclusion. I wanted these to sound their absolute best.
So I got some professional help from folks that design and build speaker for a living-and have the proper tools and techniques.
They had the equipment, experience and know how.
And they both agreed these are all fine drivers, and will integrate quite well, once a proper crossover is designed.
Not simply 3 box guessing....
Using real tools, along with people in the speaker design industry that aren't wasting time on You Tube stroking their egos......


Go crash someone else's thread....
That's one thing you seem to really excel at!

 

[toddalin]

Baiting? Hardly. Why do you keep trying to make this about me and my speakers? Insecurity?

You say that you want them to sound their best and think that they do. I would simply like to hear them.

There are plenty of examples of AMT/Heils on YouTube. If yours are among the best, this should be easy to discern, even over such a flawed medium as YouTube.

OTOH...

Edit: If your child was a piano prodigy, starting out as an infant, and among the best in the world of any age, wouldn't you be proud of him and want to show the world what he is capable of, or would you rather deprive the world of his talent?

 

[automojo]

Well-speaking of kids- my kids-they are their own people and speak for themselves-as it should be-IMHO of course.
And the last thing I would be doing is posting them on the Internet!
Whatever....
One thing I wanted to add-with the bass box damping.
I still have the walls lined with foam-back from the ported days.
But I got rid of the foam sheet behind the woofer.
The internal volume is roughly 2.7 cu ft-minus bracing-midtube drivers and crossover.
For damping, I ended up using all the amt3 Dacron stuffing from the 70's I had saved for years.
They had roughly 3 lbs in each from the factory.
I ended up with around 1.5 lbs
This really helped smooth, and clean up things around the crossover point.
As far as the l-pads.
I have the mid wide open, and the Heil at 9-oclock.
I think here-you could really eliminate the mid-l-pad.
Not with the Heil.
My AMT3's have the old-original higher pleat, non-veiled diaphragms-which are 1-2db louder than current diaphragms.
Regardless-you need a l-pad on the Heil.

 

[toddalin]

You don't need an L-pad on the Heil if you design the crossover in the room in which they are to be used. Then you can do the attenuation with precision resistors. The Heils really seem to take to the Mills resistors. My Heils are the old efficient style, but they do have a veil.

Ultimately L-pads become a source of scratchiness/noise and you will never get them set just the same, and if you move them, you won't get them exactly where they were. This hurts imaging if both speakers are not set identically.

And the nice thing when you design to the room is that you can go back and change things as desired after listening to your "go-tos." I just added some resistance to the Heils to tone them down a bit and instead of L-pads, I have three settings that I can flip between, and do depending on the cut that I am listening too. The settings have a range of about 1 dB and while this doesn't sound like much, when everything else is right in the room, this is plenty.

I can also add or remove detail/noise from the Heils, again, depending on the track.

 

[automojo]

You don't need an L-pad on the Heil if you design the crossover in the room in which they are to be used. Then you can do the attenuation with precision resistors. The Heils really seem to take to the Mills resistors. My Heils are the old efficient style, but they do have a veil.

Ultimately L-pads become a source of scratchiness/noise and you will never get them set just the same, and if you move them, you won't get them exactly where they were. This hurts imaging if both speakers are not set identically.

And the nice thing when you design to the room is that you can go back and change things as desired after listening to your "go-tos." I just added some resistance to the Heils to tone them down a bit and instead of L-pads, I have three settings that I can flip between, and do depending on the cut that I am listening too. The settings have a range of about 1 dB and while this doesn't sound like much, when everything else is right in the room, this is plenty.

I can also add or remove detail/noise from the Heils, again, depending on the track.

Ok-well resistors are still padding....
www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tweeter-padding-a-technical-writeup.20079/
Lot's of speakers were manufactored with HF adjustment.
And even mid adjustment, like many Infinity's.
Some had jumpers...Tannoy...

I have no want to mess around with resistors, or wedges. Most people don't.
Nor constanly fiddle with their speakers.

Unless they really don't sound very good.
In my experience that's usually the case why...
Or mismatch up stream.....

Or in the Mermans case-too bright from what I heard.
No wonder you keep fiddling...
I don't need to readjust the l-pad, because I'm not moving the speaker, nor changing the room.
It sounds fine and well balanced.
That was the whole reason in this final revision.
And again, points out some of the differences between this project, and your MermanBox

 

[toddalin]

Yes, padding is padding. But there is a difference between precision resistors and a sloppy L-pad.

I don't need to fiddle with them. All settings are good and the variations are small, within a 0.5 db of each other with total range of ~1 dB overall.

But the music, and the noise in it, is what varies considerably as any really revealing system will show and it is nice to be able to tailor the sound to the disk..., and to taste. I can also cut the highs and/or detail for the first 20 or so minutes of listening dramatically reducing the glare during equipment warm-up then have the equipment exactly where it was without fiddling with knobs.

And I am not too lazy to get up and flip a switch if it will make a disk sound better, and I bet a lot of other people would too if it were that easy.

 

[automojo]

Ok-well number one-if people reading this thread want to go with you l-pad set up-more power to them-it's a free country.
Two-the engineer knew the exact specs of this high quality 100 watt l-pad, and took that into account when designing the crossover. I could have simply eliminate the slight rise in the design and be done with it, and take out the l-pad.
These are brand new-precision l-pads-far from being scratchy or sloppy.
No need to reset them, once dialed in.
What ever is playing is playing-your hearing what's on the recording. I don't have a problem with that.
But having a l-pad gives you that option.
Lot's of speaker-like my Tekton OG Lores don't have l-pads. Never thought of, or wished they did.
If the speakers are playing it, in a natural, non-distorting, non-bright way-the recording is what it is.
It has nothing to do with being lazy.

Maybe people would do, like you, or like it, if it was that easy-maybe not....
Maybe start your own thread, and take a vote on that.....