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"Most memorable audio receivers" article... not a Sansui in sight!

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I'm glad it didn't mention any Sansui's in his list. Let's just say he is right and that the Sansui prices can now drop for me to buy more cheaply, but we all know they won't because we know out of all that list, the Sansui sound is what it's all about and something that the others only dream of having :D
 
My snap reaction after a quick read is that the author of this article is obsessed with Pioneer in much the same way Car and Driver worships BMW. Pioneer took more spots than any other maker on the list. They made some great gear, but to exclude Sansui entirely is kind of a joke. The QRX-9001 should be on the list in place of the big quad Kenwood, as the 9001 is pretty well the definitive statement in quad receivers.

To list the SX-1980 - and mention the Techics SA-1000 - but say nothing about the G-33000 (which was second in output power only to the Techics and solidly beat the 1980 by 30WPC) is a glaring oversight. I'll concede many more SX-1980'S were sold than the 33000, but then sales numbers don't appear to be a primary determinant for inclusion on the list.

I'll wholeheartedly agree with his giving the SX-424 to 828 a spot. These were hugely popular, very well made, and I would say set the bar for what everyone else (including Sansui) ended up doing with receiver design from the time they hit the market. Neither will I much argue the inclusion of the SX-1010. I've owned an 828 and a 1010 (still have the former, and it is my favorite Pioneer receiver bar none). The 1010 gets props just for being the first to hit 100WPC and thus the rightful instigstor of the watt wars. It does gets nicked by me for those damnable push button controls though. The SX-828 beats it on build quality just for that.

If he had limited the scope of the article to golden era receivers, and not wrapped in the home theatre era, there'd have been room for a Sansui or two. Really, WRT to home theatre, who cares? No one should be using those receivers for serious music reproduction. They are good (enough) for listening to movies full of dialog and explosions, but their specs for quality music listening flat out suck. And as he admitted in the article, their aesthetics and tactile quality - not to mention anemic power supplies and badly fudged output specs - were lousy. I wouldn't say there is anything memorable about that; not in a good way at least.
 
Well written but hard to judge. I am so biased towards Sansui that I will not even try to formulate an opinion about that article. I guess the same applies to the author relative to his preferences. I would not worry too much about it, as it is all subjective.
 
I agree about the clear Pioneer bias. That's what probably surprised me the most - including the entire SX-x2x line, the SX-1010, and the SX-1250 - and not having a single Sansui from that era. And then if you click the "how-could-you-leave-this-off" link, there is a poll at the top, which again has no Sansui. Maybe the biggest flaw, if you are going to include quadraphonic, again to not have Sansui on that list is grossly negligent. Anyway, just kind of interesting for a Friday night...

I had multiple Pioneers once. My QX-949 developed issues, and so picked up a Sansui QR-4500 for use while I worked on the Pioneer. Rest is history. I ended up selling all of my Pioneer as I acquired Sansui. The SX-828 is the only one I regret selling, just a little bit.
 
I think the Fisher deserves its mention as does the Mcintosh. Is Marantz really a cut above say a Sansui Eight though?
 
Never had any interest in Sansui gear back in the day, always considered an inferior brand by most back then so I can somewhat see the articles point.

Also never had any interest in receivers, still bottom of the tier in performance so who cares.
 
I wonder what the US sales numbers were for Sansui compared to Pioneer, Marantz. The only ones I remember were units that military guys were bringing back from overseas.
 
fredgarvin said:
I wonder what the US sales numbers were for Sansui compared to Pioneer, Marantz. The only ones I remember were units that military guys were bringing back from overseas.
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well my ex's dad was over there during Vietnam and he came back with an all Sansui system (and my ex's mom)
 
I'd also like to know how Sansui ranked in sales numbers. I think it's a given that Pioneer was the biggest operation in terms of production and sales. They could outdo just about anyone on the straight numbers. That metric doesn't mean they were better, of course, just that their factory could build more and their distribution and retail were capable of moving more product.

Their marketing was probably stronger as well, but in terms of magazine ads - which were the prevalent vehicle of the day for promoting hifi - Sansui was no slouch. I'm not sure where Marantz fell in terms of size/market penetration/sales numbers but get the feeling that they were a small boutique brand under Saul Marantz, got bigger under Superscope, and had even more juice behind them once acquired by Philips. For direct comparison to Sansui, really only the Superscope and early Philips eras are relevant. But it appears to me they were near equal to if not slightly trailing Sansui in overall nunber of units sold.

Receivers were also a largely US-centric product. They were sold elsewhere, but overwhelmingly were aimed at the North American market (to include Canada as they seem to have sold well there). Despite that, Sansui was a prolific manufacturer of receivers for a company of their size. A huge part of their manufacturing caoacity had to be devoted to receivers for most of the 70's.

Looking at what is available for sale now in vintage receivers, there is a LOT of Sansui product out there even after 40-50 years. There is more Pioneer at any given time, and Marantz seems to be well represented in used sales. I'd say Kenwood was more than a bit player, as a lot of their stuff is still out there but I figure they were smaller than Sansui yet bigger than say Akai, for example.

Anyway I post all that to try and establish who the biggest players were, as that directly impacts the numbers sold when new, and therefore current impressions of what was popular back in the day. I don't see how Sansui can be completely overlooked, as they were big enough to sell a massive amount of gear and were well regarded as a quaity product. That their sound was and still is renowned and specifically sought out is notable.

I didn't look at the poll linked from the article, nor did I look at the related speaker article (no JBL, really?). So it looks like the author of both articles has some big blind spots, or is heavily biased such that his lists are of questionable value. He does mention Sansui in passing a couple of times, so he is aware of them. That tells me the lack of any Sansui models on the list is not an oversight, but an intended slight.

Really though, I consider all such lists to be cop outs of lazy journalism. They fill page space by pontificating on old news, colored by the opinions of the writer. They cover no new ground, and in the process manage to create controversy by tweaking those who have a differing opinion. And here we all are, engaged in the fully expected Pavlovian repsonse, so I guess he did his job.
 
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Grenadeslio said:
... always considered an inferior brand by most back then...
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If that's the case, "most" would be sadly mistaken.

Listen to what Harry Weisfeld tells Michael Fremer about a restored 9090 in the beginning of this video. The 9090 is not even one of Sansui's cutting edge designs.

"Let me show you a magnificent piece of work, I got this on eBay. When they show you $50,000 dollar pieces of equipment... this has all new capacitors, all new resistors, it was completely rebuilt. I got this for $700 dollars... You have NO IDEA how good this sounds!... and the FM receiver on this thing is amazing, you can suck in channels, you know- like 90 miles away. It's magnificent! It's a shame it can't take speaker wire like we use."

 
Sansuiman said:
nor did I look at the related speaker article (no JBL, really?).
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To be honest I missed page 2 where the invincible L100 is ranked #7. My bad! Well... Bose holds both #3 and #4 on that list so it's no garden of roses either. Nevertheless, JBL is (naturally) there.

BTW: Great write up! Thanks. :thumbsup:
 
Guys I usually go to also have a great respect and preference for pioneers. Can sometimes irk me, especially when they scoffed at anything I brought in that was kenwood (I know, not Sansui related). But I agree, pioneers seem to be strongly recognized and preferred. I miss the sound of even my Kenwood KR-2400, so warm even though it put out 15 wpc at most. Pioneers sound more “crisp” to me, so it’s all based on opinion. Definitely a bias though.
 
It's unavoidable that Pioneer will get outsized recognition and nostalgia just because they sold so much that they dominated the market. I'm objective enough to acknowledge that, and even state my respect for some of their gear that I've personally had in my collection.

What I don't get is the guys who will bag on Sansui or Kenwood or any of the other smaller outfits who made some top shelf gear just as a knee-jerk response to anyone whose preference they don't share.

Just one's ego getting in the way I suppose, but it comes off as juvenile "my dad can whup your dad" posturing. To come into the Exclsuively Sansui forum and post:

Grenadeslio said:
Never had any interest in Sansui gear back in the day, always considered an inferior brand by most back then so I can somewhat see the articles point.

Also never had any interest in receivers, still bottom of the tier in performance so who cares.
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Is like being at the park on a sunny spring day and randomly telling someone their dog is ugly. Unless the point is specifically to inflame ala the daytime TV talk shows or radio shock jocks of the 80's and 90's, then mission accomplished.

It is self evident - given the following and prices commanded on resale - that Sansui was high quality gear, and even their most modest models - while often lacking in features - were still built to a standard that represented the company well and have often lasted just as long as their fancier counterparts. Moreover, Sansui was an engineering-centric outfit. They poured incredible amounts of money and expertise into furthering the art and science of sound reproduction, most notably in amplifiers.

They had some missteps, too. They committed to quad in a huge way and had the most advanced and best performing of the matrixed 4 channel formats. Regrettably, the market gave it a big yawn so it was largely a wasted effort, much to their economic detriment.

Then there were the big wins: Super Feedforward, X-Balanced, ultra high-speed and high bandwith output devices, industry leading recognition of total intermodulation distortion and how to measure and reduce it. So too the attention to detail and quality evident in the AU-X1/TU-X1, B/C-2301 and the late stage alphas. All those were far beyond anything to be expected from a solidly mid-fi maker, even if that is where most lf their efforts were concentrated.
 
Sansuiman said:
It's unavoidable that Pioneer will get outsized recognition and nostalgia just because they sold so much that they dominated the market. I'm objective enough to acknowledge that, and even state my respect for some of their gear that I've personally had in my collection.

What I don't get is the guys who will bag on Sansui or Kenwood or any of the other smaller outfits who made some top shelf gear just as a knee-jerk response to anyone whose preference they don't share.

Just one's ego getting in the way I suppose, but it comes off as juvenile "my dad can whup your dad" posturing. To come into the Exclsuively Sansui forum and post:



Is like being at the park on a sunny spring day and randomly telling someone their dog is ugly. Unless the point is specifically to inflame ala the daytime TV talk shows or radio shock jocks of the 80's and 90's, then mission accomplished.

It is self evident - given the following and prices commanded on resale - that Sansui was high quality gear, and even their most modest models - while often lacking in features - were still built to a standard that represented the company well and have often lasted just as long as their fancier counterparts. Moreover, Sansui was an engineering-centric outfit. They poured incredible amounts of money and expertise into furthering the art and science of sound reproduction, most notably in amplifiers.

They had some missteps, too. They committed to quad in a huge way and had the most advanced and best performing of the matrixed 4 channel formats. Regrettably, the market gave it a big yawn so it was largely a wasted effort, much to their economic detriment.

Then there were the big wins: Super Feedforward, X-Balanced, ultra high-speed and high bandwith output devices, industry leading recognition of total intermodulation distortion and how to measure and reduce it. So too the attention to detail and quality evident in the AU-X1/TU-X1, B/C-2301 and the late stage alphas. All those were far beyond anything to be expected from a solidly mid-fi maker, even if that is where most lf their efforts were concentrated.
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did you miss the part "back then", this has nothing to do with current thinking, why would anyone be insulted by that comment.

and as I stated, never had any interest in recivers anyway, so why would "I" care even now, I've had separates since my first purchase. I don't think it's a secret receivers are a compromise.

If some of their separates were available at prices I wanted to pay, or even one of their tables, aaannnd I was looking then I would have no problem adding Sansui to my lineup.
 
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Sure. I'll address those points in reverse order. Your dislike of receivers was noted, and I made no argument over that point. It is a matter of taste with which I'll take no issue. I own receivers and separates - many of both in fact - so I'm well aware of the compromises that typically characterize receivers. Despite that, there are many high performing receivers, so a blanket write off of the enitre category is short sighted.

As to "back in the day" your generalized assessment of Sansui as an inferior brand then (versus now? And compared to what?) according to "most people" is exactly backwards. From 1970-1980 Sansui was very well regarded for making quality gear. Their reputation started falling off circa 1981 due to the mass market portion of their business increasingly turning into junk up until around 1986. By 1988 or so, they withdrew to selling only in Japan with their remaining line of high end amps, ceding the international mid-fi market entirely to other players.

Sansui in 2020 is just another empty shell of a name appropriated by new owners trying to capitalize on it's past glory, while destroying the very value in the name they seek to exploit. If you had stated that Sansui post-2000 was junk, you'd have no disagreement from me. However, your original post as phrased trashes what is inarguably Sansui's best era, historically speaking.

Thus, I stand by my assessment.
 
Sansuiman said:
Sure. I'll address those points in reverse order. Your dislike of receivers was noted, and I made no argument over that point. It is a matter of taste with which I'll take no issue. I own receivers and separates - many of both in fact - so I'm well aware of the compromises that typically characterize receivers. Despite that, there are many high performing receivers, so a blanket write off of the enitre category is short sighted.

As to "back in the day" your generalized assessment of Sansui as an inferior brand then (versus now? And compared to what?) according to "most people" is exactly backwards. From 1970-1980 Sansui was very well regarded for making quality gear. Their reputation started falling off circa 1981 due to the mass market portion of their business increasingly turning into junk up until around 1986. By 1988 or so, they withdrew to selling only in Japan with their remaining line of high end amps, ceding the international mid-fi market entirely to other players.

Sansui in 2020 is just another empty shell of a name appropriated by new owners trying to capitalize on it's past glory, while destroying the very value in the name they seek to exploit. If you had stated that Sansui post-2000 was junk, you'd have no disagreement from me. However, your original post as phrased trashes what is inarguably Sansui's best era, historically speaking.

Thus, I stand by my assessment.
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never said their gear was junk at any time, in the 70's they were considered inferior to Pioneer and Marantz, doesn't matter if that was true or not eh?

Realistic was also considered inferior, yet today we here understand much of their gear is top notch, yet it still holds that stigma in the public's eye, helps keep the prices down.

one of the things I like about Kenwood, great gear that still somewhat flies under the radar.

So I stand by my statement
 
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