Motorola console opinions?

[Frankie's Market]

I'm in the process of picking up a Motorola sk52w console, it is in "OK" cosmetic shape,the original turntable is gone. This is a 3 channel model with the "Vibrosonic" center channel. I wanted to get opinions as to how it stacks up against the Voice of Music 6v6 GT consoles? I have a VM console already and will need to choose between the two. Thanks, Ed

 

[Vaughn]

Hey Ed, I have no idea how it stacks up to the 6v6 model you mention but I can say I love my sk52w. It actually gets more play time than an other system in the house!

 

[Trio]

If it is the same "Vibrasonic" unit they used in the rear speaker amps for automotive use, you will need to put new foam in the reverb tank. The designs are pretty similar to the VMs, so to be honest and fair- give them both a listen and see which one you prefer.

Some people like the reverb, others get bored with it quickly.

 

[Vaughn]

The reverb can be turned down completely

 

[hammondcrazy]

It is a great console and my favorites I wish I could find more of them. I would get rid of that tank and spring stuff and get a digital reverb and it sounds 100000% better than tank spring reverbs I use them in my organs. take out the spring reverbs and install a digital reverb. and you can change the reverb to different rooms or styles. I like reverb for mono recordings especially with headphones

 

[Frankie's Market]

Ok, it must be tube console season! I bought another one yesterday, a mono Motorola console, 15 inch woofer with a tube tuner, 6v6 gt outputs. Model 15kt 24-b-1-a. Can't find anything yet on it on the web. Going to eat breakfast and pick it up. Gonna be some hard choices picking out a fave and getting rid of the rest...

 

[Olorin67]

Most Moto consoles are quite good, I have a SK77. And have recently picked up The parted out remains of 2 other Motos. (helps to let your friends and co-works know your into old tube stuff) I have the changer out of a SK 52 you want one.( free) Some Motorolas have 3 channels of push pull amplification, some have push pull for the center channel, and single ended for the left and right. Also have some VM amps with push pull 6aq5s that sound awesome. The tricky part on the Motorolas is the 3 channel speaker set-up. They work well and sound great you keep that basic set up. The left and right channels don't have output transformers that can handle bass frequencies.

 

[hammondcrazy]

I am looking for a tuner/preamp that has the round dials on it. I don't like the 100% solid state stuff they made and I have a solid state unit that I got for 10 bucks for the console. had a TV in it and the blue faced tuner. no flywheel tuning and it sounds like junk. Took the guts out and they went to the dump. making a center channel and subwoofer cabinet out of it for a flat screen. Motorola in the latter years made crap.

 

[Kingfisher]

Motorola from the 50's-60's did not make junk. In fact, I would place their consoles up there with Fisher, Pilot, HH Scott, etc. They are definitely a step above V-M which was primarily a TT maker and made many for other companies including Motorola. Moto also had an agreement with Drexel furniture to make their really nice cabinetry.

 

[perchdog]

Motorola from the 50's-60's did not make junk. In fact, I would place their consoles up there with Fisher, Pilot, HH Scott, etc. They are definitely a step above V-M which was primarily a TT maker and made many for other companies including Motorola. Moto also had an agreement with Drexel furniture to make their really nice cabinetry.

Owning two Motos., one three channel and one two channel, two Fisher Executives and a Pilot 1078, I would disagree

 

[Kingfisher]

Owning two Motos., one three channel and one two channel, two Fisher Executives and a Pilot 1078, I would disagree

If you've got two Fisher Executives, you've got way more funds than I do...there ain't many of those around (never were). Please let us know when you bring home the President.

 

[perchdog]

If you've got two Fisher Executives, you've got way more funds than I do...there ain't many of those around (never were). Please let us know when you bring home the President.

someday hopefully... but it needs to be right year and style.

I really like the Pilot as well, its probably the heaviest built cab out of the bunch.. A little FYI, the 61' Executive cab was built by Widdicomb - Grand Rapids

 

[Kingfisher]

someday hopefully... but it needs to be right year and style.

I really like the Pilot as well, its probably the heaviest built cab out of the bunch.. A little FYI, the 61' Executive cab was built by Widdicomb - Grand Rapids

Hey that's cool! That's what sets Fisher apart from the likes of V-M. I like V-M because it's from Michigan, but anybody that uses ceramic disc capacitors in the audio signal path doesn't deserve much respect. I'm going to be dealing with that when I start working on my 581 amp.

 

[specialone53]

Hey that's cool! That's what sets Fisher apart from the likes of V-M. I like V-M because it's from Michigan, but anybody that uses ceramic disc capacitors in the audio signal path doesn't deserve much respect. I'm going to be dealing with that when I start working on my 581 amp.

You obviously think every manufacturer must be chastized for building non-esoteric equipment?

This is mass-produced general electronics for the masses, not snobbish high-end boutique jazz.

 

[Kingfisher]

You obviously think every manufacturer must be chastized for building non-esoteric equipment?

This is mass-produced general electronics for the masses, not snobbish high-end boutique jazz.

And your point is? Generally, I am against mass-production because it usually leads to a drop in quality. Make better, not make more. If that makes me a snob...well, I guess I am. The point of putting better caps in an amp is to make it perform better than "general electronics for the masses". If you like mass production, Best Buy and Walmart are great places to buy your stereo.

 

[specialone53]

And your point is? Generally, I am against mass-production because it usually leads to a drop in quality. Make better, not make more. If that makes me a snob...well, I guess I am. The point of putting better caps in an amp is to make it perform better than "general electronics for the masses". If you like mass production, Best Buy and Walmart are great places to buy your stereo.

What's odd is that VM & Motorola used ceramic disk capacitors in their designs, increasing their long-term reliability.
Compare that to other manufacturers who used paper/wax, and are now experiencing failure rates much higher.

Indeed, ceramic disk's aren't a "hi-fi" geek's choice, but my point is that VM's products were built to stand the test of time, so why put them down?
I could as well put down Macintosh stuff for using the high-failure rate black beauties for coupling caps. - but that wouldn't make much sense either.

At-The-Time.... they didn't have boutique capacitors and today's technology.

 

[larryderouin]

FISHER also used ceramic caps in locations that you normally don't find them. And they sound fine. I'm of the school that "the engineers at the time knew what they were doing designing the gear with what was currently available, it sounds fine, so leave it alone".

FISHER "STOLE" a whole bunch of German engineers in the late 50's from Grundig, Nordmende, etc., and put them to work designing the 58 and up Tube gear and up to 1970 or so Solid State gear. They tended to use a lot of ceramic caps. And these same ceramics were generally higher quality caps.

If you went by todays' "standards" about 80% of the ceramic's would be replaced with "PIO"'s, Polypro, or other high end "Boutique" caps Using ceramics can be done today, but you need to know what to look for spec wise and apply it correctly.

The problem is that today everything is designed by CAD with almost no prototyping units to play/modify/upgrade/etc to nail down the final sound. The boss is screaming "If the spec's are good , it must sound good" BUILD IT." And it's crammed down our throats by some slick marketing Dept.


Larry

 

[Trio]

FISHER also used ceramic caps in locations that you normally don't find them. And they sound fine. I'm of the school that "the engineers at the time knew what they were doing designing the gear with what was currently available, it sounds fine, so leave it alone".

FISHER "STOLE" a whole bunch of German engineers in the late 50's from Grundig, Nordmende, etc., and put them to work designing the 58 and up Tube gear and up to 1970 or so Solid State gear. They tended to use a lot of ceramic caps. And these same ceramics were generally higher quality caps.

If you went by todays' "standards" about 80% of the ceramic's would be replaced with "PIO"'s, Polypro, or other high end "Boutique" caps Using ceramics can be done today, but you need to know what to look for spec wise and apply it correctly.

The problem is that today everything is designed by CAD with almost no prototyping units to play/modify/upgrade/etc to nail down the final sound. The boss is screaming "If the spec's are good , it must sound good" BUILD IT." And it's crammed down our throats by some slick marketing Dept.


Larry

I must agree with Larry. Many people just do not like ceramic caps, but the fact is clearly a correctly installed ceramic cap will perform very well with high reliability. I have used them at times in communications recievers and they work admirably- especially in areas that are prone to heat. But they were also higher quality ceramics- there is a range of quality among them, they are not all the same- learn to read the other markings on those caps.

The engineers of that golden era are gone, and they knew this stuff inside and out better than any of us could hope to master however; even with computer modelling and sophisticated tooling used today, are you really "improving" on those old designs? or are you just fullfing a self fulfilling prophecy? To be sure, there are materials and designs of components themselves that exist today that did not exist in the 1950's- and the merits or demerits of each could argued adnauseum.

Those that choose to turn up their nose at something just to be able to turn up their nose at something should have supporting reasoning for doing so- otherwise they are just snobs and not really adding to a knowledge base.

It could very well be that those engineers knew where it mattered to have certain capacitor construction in various parts of the circuit and where it didn't matter. And it is possible those engineers knew more than most of today's engineers as to what sounded/sounds best.

 

[wa2ise]

I must agree with Larry. Many people just do not like ceramic caps, but the fact is clearly a correctly installed ceramic cap will perform very well with high reliability.

According to Steve Bench http://diyaudioprojects.com/mirror/members.aol.com/sbench102/caps2.html it looks like you want ceramic caps with high voltage ratings. The low voltage ones look rather bad. Using the high voltage ones for coupling caps will put you at one end of these curves, as you have plate voltage on one side, and near ground on the other. And the audio signal will be a small fraction of that voltage. So you avoid the S curve zero crossing region, which would make for some 3rd harmonic. Which is likely why the engineers of yore didn't barf when they designed and built the prototypes.