Mr Lin
- Thread starter Art K.
- Start date
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
Couldn't cancel it had already shipped. Puts me in a financial bind...oh well. I'll get it figured out.
I'll give you $200 for it, shipped to the Great White North. It is used now, after all!
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
I'll give you $200 for it, shipped to the Great White North. It is used now, after all!
Erik....bad man...:nono:
Were gonna try to figure it out and keep it as a back up...if it doesn't work out I'll hitcha wif a PM aight!
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
Unfortunately it has not made for an interesting comparison. We audiophiles are used to paying for diminishing returns and the fact that my Sonneteer retails for just under six times what the NAD does should make those diminishing returns more obvious. Not really. I think it was Paul Seydor that reviewd the NAD and that I quoted earlier in this thread, he lost a lot of credibility with me. The Sonneteer is far more than 6 times better than the NAD...they are not even about similar musical values. Folks who enjoy Marantz, Musical Fidelity, McIntosh and similar kit may enjoy the sound of the NAD (similar values but not nearly as well executed). Those who favor Naim, LFD, Sugden, Creek, Mastersound etc may not. More later.
That said the NAD does a couple of things right for a budget amp. It's not offensive to the ears. It's not bright and edgy and is listenable over long periods.
However it also lacks balance and timbre. Folks have talked about a bass emphasis...true...but unfortunately the bass doesn't sound right and neither do most other instruments. There is a piece on a Roy Hargrove album (i'm not home so I can't reference the exact piece) that I have where the pianist is comping and with the Sonneteer it's clear and natural with the percussive nature of the piano exposed for all to here and even more important the language spoken by musicians is open for all of us to here and be involved in. With the NAD you could barely tell that the piano was a piano and the inner dialogue of the musicians was all but forgotten. The toe tapping nature of the Sonneteer was replaced with a darker more introspective sound that lacked the sonic insight to be introspective in a meaningful way.
The NAD did have a sweet sound and in a more synergistic system where all the parts are similar it may have fared considerably better as again there wasn't a thing about the sound that was offensive or difficult to listen to (from an ear bleed perspective) it just didn't excite either.
These are just initial impressions.
Dave, you are in for a pleasant surprise when you pick up a Nait 5i.
Back to work, as I said, more later...perhaps this weekend.
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
Hey I've been away for a few days with the plague.
Wow, I'm surprised at your impressions. I do have to be honest and tell you I haven't spent a lot of time actually listening to music with the NAD, as it's in my TV/DVD system. I have hooked up my CD players and really did like the sound, but still haven't compared it directly to my Audcom hybrid integrated amp, or hooked it up to either turntable/phono preamp combo. Almost everything I've said about music in the last seven or eight months has been from my headphone system.
But still, for $500 I'm pretty happy with the NAD. I never intended for it to be a reference amp, or the heart of my future primary system, rather a high quality "extra" until I can afford a Naim.
I'm hesitant to say this, because it might start a war, but have you considered the possibility that the NAD needs some time to break in? I only ask because I often read in the TAS and Stereophile reviews that a component sounds uninspiring and then gets considerably better over hundreds of hours.
I think the problem is that you've heard too much really good stuff.
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
Hey I've been away for a few days with the plague.
Wow, I'm surprised at your impressions. I do have to be honest and tell you I haven't spent a lot of time actually listening to music with the NAD, as it's in my TV/DVD system. I have hooked up my CD players and really did like the sound, but still haven't compared it directly to my Audcom hybrid integrated amp, or hooked it up to either turntable/phono preamp combo. Almost everything I've said about music in the last seven or eight months has been from my headphone system.
But still, for $500 I'm pretty happy with the NAD. I never intended for it to be a reference amp, or the heart of my future primary system, rather a high quality "extra" until I can afford a Naim.
I'm hesitant to say this, because it might start a war, but have you considered the possibility that the NAD needs some time to break in? I only ask because I often read in the TAS and Stereophile reviews that a component sounds uninspiring and then gets considerably better over hundreds of hours.
I think the problem is that you've heard too much really good stuff.
I have a few more days to return it but I probably will not as I will be shipping the Sonneteer to the UK 2/1/11 and will need something to play. I'll probably so some fussing with the BEE to see if I can coax a little more music from it. The fun has only just begun!
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
Oh and I do believe in break in. Certainly the BEE sounded much better after 24 hrs of warmup and play. It simply became painfully obvious that it was not going to meet Paul Seydor's lofty statement. I too enjoy reading the hifi mags and over the years have come to trust some of the writers and some of them not so much, Paul is now in the latter group. Were I in the market for a mid fi amp and had not ever heard a Unison Research or the Sonnteer, my opinion might be completely different.
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Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
There's the context we should clarify for people reading this and wondering what the hell is going on: In the hi-fi journey, and particularly when it comes to experience with high-end audio electronics, you are definitely way ahead of me. The truth is that I haven't heard a wide variety of hi-fi amps, so the NAD met my expectations. I can hear all kinds of ways it could be better, but like I said, for $500 I'm really happy with what I got.
poppachubby
Boo Yaka! Boo Yaka!
I didn't want to say anything, but I am not surprised with Art's findings.
First of all, it's been noted that he has already surpassed the BEE and we all know that in this hobby, there's no looking back. My buddy Bob_In_OKC put it wisely when he said, "the best way to enjoy your gear, is to NOT listen to anything better". Poetry.
My local shop pushes NAD very hard for entry level customers. They use it to sway them from the big box stores, and it works well. NAD certainly has it's purpose in the scheme of things. That said, I have heard my fair share of NAD gear.
I think Art's findings regarding that clip of music sum things up nicely. The NAD simply is unable to bring clarity or focus to "accompanying" players. It does a decent job of bringing forward the featured player/vocalist, but for a music like jazz, that's not enough. Whilst the sax is soloing, we want to hear the great things the other musicicans are up to.
The Nait 5i is worlds ahead of the NAD, but for this issue I would rec the Nait 5. I have mentioned already about it's detail but to be specific, it has an excellent ability to seperate each musician and give them space. Very wide and deep stage. All background players are strong in the mix. I will never forget, I was spinning side 2 of Nelson's Blues and the Abstract Truth on a Project deck through a Tube Box and into the Naim 5. If you know the LP, it starts out with rhythm only, very mellow and somewhat quiet. When the horns began to play i almost jumped out of my seat. They were huge, but not in an unrealistic way. It just made you realise how quietly the rhythm section were droppin it. Oh it's an excellent amp fro presentation.
This type of presentation is something the NAD cannot do effectively. It's the reason that amps like the Naim are priced the way they are.
First of all, it's been noted that he has already surpassed the BEE and we all know that in this hobby, there's no looking back. My buddy Bob_In_OKC put it wisely when he said, "the best way to enjoy your gear, is to NOT listen to anything better". Poetry.
My local shop pushes NAD very hard for entry level customers. They use it to sway them from the big box stores, and it works well. NAD certainly has it's purpose in the scheme of things. That said, I have heard my fair share of NAD gear.
I think Art's findings regarding that clip of music sum things up nicely. The NAD simply is unable to bring clarity or focus to "accompanying" players. It does a decent job of bringing forward the featured player/vocalist, but for a music like jazz, that's not enough. Whilst the sax is soloing, we want to hear the great things the other musicicans are up to.
The Nait 5i is worlds ahead of the NAD, but for this issue I would rec the Nait 5. I have mentioned already about it's detail but to be specific, it has an excellent ability to seperate each musician and give them space. Very wide and deep stage. All background players are strong in the mix. I will never forget, I was spinning side 2 of Nelson's Blues and the Abstract Truth on a Project deck through a Tube Box and into the Naim 5. If you know the LP, it starts out with rhythm only, very mellow and somewhat quiet. When the horns began to play i almost jumped out of my seat. They were huge, but not in an unrealistic way. It just made you realise how quietly the rhythm section were droppin it. Oh it's an excellent amp fro presentation.
This type of presentation is something the NAD cannot do effectively. It's the reason that amps like the Naim are priced the way they are.
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
And actually $400 for me as I bought a refurb.
Precisely...that dialogue between musicians, and between musicians and the audience IS Jazz. Without it most of the art is MIA.
poppachubby
Boo Yaka! Boo Yaka!
Seen. I have built my system on detail particularily low level. My Golden Tube, while not the greatest example of a single ended, is unusually capable in the detail dept. Tough to go from that to anything less.
Here's one you can relate to. I think Hargrove's Parker's Mood is a great reference for detail/seperation/clarity. That said, I have heard this recording on systems with poor qualities and it changes the experience fully. Scott's playing was smeared and somewhat hidden, this in turn detracts from the rhythm which on a drumless album, can only be implied from percussive instruments. You feel me?
On my own system Scott is dead center and although he is audibly further back than Hargrove and McBride, his performance is clearly part of the mix. The other thing I love about that album is how Scott can be heard singing along with the melody. I hate when Jarrett does this, but Scott has an endearing way about him. Of course, this is all but lost without some amount of resolution.
Off topic, Jarrett wouldn't be so bad but in the last decade or so they place a mic in front of him. I suppose this is great for fans but I find it over bearing and it detracts from the music. He's no Fitzgerald...
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
I love that album.Another one that is fabulous in the same way is "Fingerpainting - The Music of Herbie Hancock" with Christian McBride, Nicholas Payton and Mark Whitfield.
BTW, after fighting it for awhile I've grown accustomed to Jarrett's noise.
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
These qualities you're describing are what I hear with my headphones using any of my CD players as source, or, like right now, a turntable. With decent to good recordings imaging is very strong, there's "space" around every musician, a sense of airy space and atmosphere. Although I didn't notice these qualities with the NAD, I thought it was the problematic room I'm in right now, and/or the less than ideal setup. I'll mention again that I've only lived where I am right now since March, and I've yet to set up a proper main system like I used to have - except with the headphones. But, from what you guys are telling me I guess it was the amp.
In the end, it's good to have things like the 326BEE around for future secondary systems, IMO - I like to set up little extra systems with spare gear sometimes.
poppachubby
Boo Yaka! Boo Yaka!
The room may attribute to your issues too. You shouldn't give up on improving anything you can. It's a PITA but to really understand the room nodes you must move your speakers around quite a bit. That could improve things. You have very revealing speakers which image and stage very well.
Of course, the NAD is indeed limited. There's no way you'll come close to the transparency that headphones can privide. It's a solid amp, just don't expect great and amazing things from it. I think the application you are using now is a sound one.
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
Yeah the speakers I have are pretty nice, and I think a lot of the problem is the room because they all sounded better until I moved here.
Aside from TV and movie sound, a "big night" for the NAD is when we have friends/family members over, and I play music that's not quiet, but it is in the background. I also use my Jolida Cd player for that, which should tell you something as well...
guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
"La vida te da sorpresas, sorpresas te da la vida" ("Life brings you surprises, suprises are brought to you by Life")
Lyrics from "Pedro Navaja" by Ruben Blades (BTW, a salsa version of "Mack the knife" a song composed by Kurt Weill).
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
Got a chance today to spend several hours listening to the 326, it's quite a bit better than the 325. I'm using it to drive the fronts in the HT and as a stand alone 2 channel outfit with the mains in the living room. That means it's paired with Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's (not that great but fine for HT) and a Panny BD player. By far the weak link is the BD player. Even with that the speed and agility of the 326 is impressive. I'd like to try some PSB standmounts and any decent dedicated CD player with the 326 as I think it could be better than I thought.