MR85 vs. MR88

[MX117.MC7150]

All my equipment is pre-1995 so this is pure speculation but the MR85-88 would be compatible with current wireless remote controls. The MR75-80 have no remote control capability. Also, when you state "MR75-80," are you including the MR77-78 in between?

I might make some people angry but being my 60's and having gone through the "super-tuner wars" of the 70's and 80's, I don't think ANYONE currently, including Mcintosh, makes analog tuners as good as those from that era.

Yes, am including the MR77/78 in that. I have an MR80 with Terry DeWick for a complete refurb to go with my gear. In fact, I sent him two of them. :yes:

Am also in my '60s and the McIntosh tuners are worthy of that era when analog FM was king (as it should be today). That is why I don't do HD, as I'm tired of all the hype/lies surrounding it. Some true and good, mostly bad. Ron-C - this is definitely not aimed at you. I'm talking about Clear Channel and Ibiquity and the FCC and other BS artists selling the format on half-truths and lies.

You might want to do some research on the TIC (Tuner Information Center) website and ask some question on their High End FM Tuner forum (a google forum). The thinking over there is:
McIntosh tubes - MR67 for sonics, MR71 for reception.
McIntosh SS - MR74 for sonics, followed closely by the MR77/78/80 and then MR73/75. For reception, the MR78/80 are the tops and about the same. They have what is considered the best chipset in them. Do a search on the MR80 in the google high-end tuner forum and read some info on what those folks think about the MR80. I'll have mine back from Terry in a couple of months. Remember, like all gear from the 'tuner wars' era, these McIntosh tuners will only perform at their best if recapped and aligned.

 

[JWJW]

...now I'm REALLY confused. I think the MR85 is still the best basic tuner choice I can make. I'm NOT a EE so I'm not sure how to interperate (or not)the McIntosh specs...:tears:

 

[jlovda]

Remember, like all gear from the 'tuner wars' era, these McIntosh tuners will only perform at their best if recapped and aligned.

I recently got a copy of the MR80 Service manual to see what the differences are between it and the MR78. The RF front ends are basically the same. The MR78 uses LC filters (the "RIMO" filter) for the 8 and 16 pole selectivities of the IF section. They are tunable like an IF transformer so they could drift over time. The MR77 just has the 8 pole section of the MR78 design. The MR80 on the other hand uses ceramic filters (probably the low phase shift versions) so they never need to be realigned due to age. The MR73 used non-adjustable quartz crystal filters in the IF which seems to be short lived fad in the early 70's. The MR74 uses basically the same filter design as the MR78 but they didn't use the RIMO name. I don't know what the design is in the MR75, probably ceramic filters.

I've seen pictures of the inside of a Marantz 10b. It too uses LC filters in the IF but the inductors appear to be fixed values so no realignment can be done.

 

[MX117.MC7150]

Per the folks in the know on the TIC forum, the chipset used in the MR85 is not one of the best when compared to the designs of the earlier McIntosh tuners. If you want the best sonics, get the MR74 or MR77 and have it recapped and aligned. Should be good for another 30+ years. If you want sonics that are argueably just under the MR74 or MR77 but have better DXing (long range) capability, do the same with an MR78 or MR80. I choose the MR80 because it has nearly the best of everything and I like its cosmetics and the way it operates with the ability to have preselected stations.

 

[ron-c]

All the older tuners, model numbers below 80, use a multi gang tuning capacitor. MR80 uses varactor tuning diodes so this is a very different design.
The models after MR80 are all digital tuners until the new MR88 and export MR87. These new tuners are DSP in that they digitize the analog antenna signal and process it in the digital domain.
As far as HD this is only available in the Americas at this time. If you like wide bandwidth sound, high signal to noise ratio and high dynamic range, HD offers this. Most quality FM stations back off or do Not Use compression on their HD side since this is what IBOC and the transmitter vendors are designing for and encouraging.
DSP tuning will minimize or eliminate multi-path reception problems which is a very big plus.
The main issue for HD so far has been its limit to one/100th broadcast signal compared to the main analog signal. This has made for reception issues on many HD radios. The FCC has changed this early this year to allow 5% HD signal which is a big increase and 10% if the station goes through an appeal process which also surveys the local market for interference issues.
MR88 will receive more stations because HD has well, more stations.
Secondary HD stations are advertising free for the first year and may follow or be a different musical genre than the main station.

Thanks,
Ron-C

 

[jlovda]

I recently got a copy of the MR80 Service manual to see what the differences are between it and the MR78. The RF front ends are basically the same.

Ron-C is correct about the MR80 front end. What I was thinking is that the MR80 uses the same high power bi-polar transistor right at the antenna input to provide very good immunity to input overload. The MR77, MR78 and MR80 were the only tuners to use this feature. later tuners reverted to more traditional dual gate FETs in the RF section. The MR77 and MR78 use air-core tuning caps, the MR80 uses voltage controlled varactor diodes that act as capacitors. This is another thing that has always mystified me about FM design. Why does a company that develops and implements a proprietary design with apparently exceptional features then abandon it a short time later? Production costs, licensing agreements with the inventor (RIMO)?

 

[ron-c]

All McIntosh tuners have remained in the line for a long time except for maybe MR500. Compared to the one of two year life cycle of the majors McIntosh tuners had long production lives.
Of all the MC tuners, MR78 was in production the longest, 12 years and is one of the largest selling McIntosh models of all time.

Thanks,
Ron-C

 

[JWJW]

So....am I taking a step by buying a new MR85?!?! :sigh:

 

[MX117.MC7150]

Didn't Richard Modaferri design the MR77 and MR78 for McIntosh? If so, doesn't McIntosh own the rights to the techology? We need a history lesson on this. BTW - Richard also designed the proprietary 'infinite slope' crossovers used in my Joseph Audio speakers. Believe he is also the tuner tech at Audio Classics. Once upon a time he would post in the occasional forum, but I haven't read anything directly from him in quite some time.

 

[ron-c]

JW, MR85 is a fine tuner that may serve your needs. I prefer MR88 and do not listen to the old tuners much anymore. Just depends if you want, yester-tech or the future? Up to you!

Thanks,
Ron-C