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Musicality vs. Accuracy?

sonix

sonix

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone,

My question to you all is what is more important to you, a musical amplifier or an accurate amplifier?
I realize, that you may also have a happy medium, where your personal perception of accuracy and musicality may be in harmony.

I have an audio friend who is very much obsessed with musical accuracy, for example an amplifier X sound more accurate than amplifier Y, and amplifier Z colors the sound and therefore is not accurate even though it could be more musical than the previous two.

I'm sure this has been an ongoing debate among many audio fans on this forum as well.

The question remains, are you willing to sacrifice an accurate sounding amplifier over a colored sounding amplifier that is simply more musical. I'm not even bringing tubes or distortion into the picture, just solid state amplifiers. Also not discussing the speaker amplifier synergy either otherwise there will be many rabbit trails.

My experience has been such, that amplifiers with a high damping factor spec often times sound thin and lifeless in the mid range frequencies. The lows will generally be tight and dig deep but will frequently over shadow the rest of the sound spectrum, which will become annoying after a while. Also the highs can be very airy and articulate and somewhat sharp to the ears, but again the midrange is somehow lifeless and withdrawn. I'm finding this to be especially true with many pro audio amps. I do have a few pro audio amps that are quite musical in my and other peoples opinion.

The specs often show great numbers and low distortion but the musical emotion or involvement is clinical, robotic, mechanical or is simply not there with any music style, is the case with many amps pro or home application amps.

So my question is, are people chasing accuracy like in the case of my friend or musicality as in my case. Are you willing to sacrifice musicality for accuracy? Is it fair to make the analogy that a thin and soulless sounding amplifier is a better product because it is more accurate?

What is your take?
 
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As a synthesizer guy, I can screw up the sound of my main rig as much as I want through my effects loop, so I can keep my rig accurate, or run it through my effects processor to do tube modeling, cabinet modeling, chorus, reverb, whatever.

But if I have a "musical" amp, I'm pretty much stuck with it.

I don't want a musical amp, or an accurate amp. I want a choice.
 
I chase musicality with good detail. I want a sound that just sounds good with jazz, rock, classical, piano solo, female vocal and I never get tired of the sound. I begin to think only of the music and not how I should tweak the setup.

Room acoustics can play a major role in accuracy and in many cases you have limited flexibility to change that.

Also you have the equivalent of "muscle memory" with stereo and music and sound. My ear chases that sound of the great setup I had in college listening to British rock on Advents or Dynaco speakers with quality solid state amps and turntables. That is what my ear is trained to think is "good" - full midrange and rolled-off highs. So any setup with a crisp and highly accurate high-end sounds not so good to me.

Cheers,

Snade
 
What's your standard for accuracy? Measuring the output of the amp? A measured flat response taken in the room? That's about the only shot at true accuracy you have.

As for source, each recording is subject to at least one person's decision on what they want you to hear. ...and they each make that decision using different equipment.

I've given up on this subject. I've been to enough concerts, both purely acoustic and amplified, in enough different venues, both large and small, at various different times, and at different locations in those venues to know that they never sound exactly the same. So, "accuracy" to a musical event is nigh impossible to recreate at home. I just go with what lets me enjoy the music.

But, I'm curious about your friend. How can he lay the whole accuracy thing on the amp? Does he watch the output on a scope? Wouldn't speakers have more an impact on the overall sound than the amp? Does he just assume the speaker is accurate?

Methinks what your friend calls "accurate" is simply his way of saying it sounds like he wants it to sound.
 
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sonix said:
The specs often show great numbers and low distortion but the musical emotion or involvement is clinical, robotic, mechanical or is simply not there with any music style
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It sounds like this description of an "accurate" amplifier (and I've seen it many times) is in fact describing quite the opposite!
 
I'm sure the best sounding amplifiers, those high quality units that sound amazing, are very accurate if you do some measurements on them.

For sure there are not so accurate amps that sound pleasant. But I don't think a high quality amplifier is not accurate in laboratory tests.
 
Some interesting points, thank you. What I'm emphasizing is that some people would choose a more anemic sounding amplifier only because they believe its more accurate sounding and not necessarily more musical sounding. This is strange to me. I would personally prefer to listen to an amp that is musical than one with good specs but anemic sounding. And I get the point about room acoustics and program sources and high resolution files and all that, just to many variables...
I just wanted to know where you stand on accuracy and musicality? And yes, I agree there are nice accurate sounding amplifiers out there. It just baffles my mind where in an amp shoot out 5 people will agree that one amp clearly stands out above others, but one individual will argue that it is not accurate sounding and will choose the higher specked amp with a noticeably thin mid range. Just a poor argument. Anyways, what's your experience?
 
Today, we have the ability to build a nearly perfect amplifier, then connect it to speakers with 10% distortion and ±10 dB frequency response. Then play those speakers into a room with acoustics that are even worse than the speakers. Then we keep looking for better amplifiers. Wrong choice. We should be studying room acoustics.
 
First, I question the emphasis on "amplifier" in the OP's question — I listen to a System.

Second, I question the distinction between Musical and Accurate; I might even reverse the definitions. If a "Musical" system gives me the pleasure, excitement and emotion of Music, it's "accurate". If an "Accurate" system gives me all the notes, overtones, harmonics, etc etc etc but not pleasure, excitement and emotion of Music, I might as well listen to test-tones.

Having owned both types of presentation, I would sorely miss all those details and nuances an "accurate" system delivers, so I want both, and have it.

As for measurements, I pay attention to them but they don't influence my opinions. I assume a well-calibrated oscilloscope, testing another well-calibrated oscilloscope, will prove it to be accurate. But I would not find that exciting or emotional.

And I can only listen to recordings of Music through my system. Recordings record air waves, not Music, and not the feelings of the musician(s) much less the composer(s). It puzzles and amuses me that "accuracy to the recording" is the sine qua non of the "audiophile experience".
the skipper said:
I've been to enough concerts, both purely acoustic and amplified, in enough different venues, both large and small, at various different times, and at different locations in those venues to know that they never sound exactly the same. So, "accuracy" to a musical event is nigh impossible to recreate at home. I just go with what lets me enjoy the music.
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True, different venues sound different. But Skipper doesn't mention that live events have their own excitement, adrenalin, even sexual energy — they're more a part of the event than the venue, and cannot be captured on any recording. From seeing Hendrix live for the first time at Ondine's, to Klemperer's final Beethoven "Eroica" at Carnegie Hall shortly before his death — and both he and the entire audience knew it was his last, that the Second Movement "Funeral March" was Klemperer's own — no recording, even if any were made, would come close the human experience.

So Skipper's conclusion is right on.
 
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I just want what comes out of the amp to be clean and distinct with lots of head room. After that it's up to the speakers and room to do their job. The amp is the enabler.
Had I been in this hobby longer I would no doubt be more picky.
 
bimasta said:
First, I question the emphasis on "amplifier" in the OP's question

“And I can only listen to recordings of Music through my system. Recordings record air waves, not the feelings of the musician(s) much less the composer(s). It puzzles and amuses me that "accuracy to the recording" is the sine qua non of the "audiophile experience"

“sine qua non”. Love expanding my vocabulary while enjoying the hobby!
Thoughtful posts !
I was thinking craft beer ABV and how many consumed .
The subjective nature of such a comparison given all the variables makes my head spin.
I do appreciate all the good for thought.
Thankful for Spotify and Bose mini link at work.
Finally ,thankful for the hobby this forum and the music.
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fred soop said:
Today, we have the ability to build a nearly perfect amplifier, then connect it to speakers with 10% distortion and ±10 dB frequency response. Then play those speakers into a room with acoustics that are even worse than the speakers. Then we keep looking for better amplifiers. Wrong choice. We should be studying room acoustics.
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+1
FTW

Or anything else that says nailed it.

I'm as guilty as many; my room is the absolute worst, especially since having the entire house tiled. But I'm not buying stuff in the vain hope of getting better sound. I just live with it, knowing that it's the room acoustics and not the gear.

To the OP, I'll take accurate every time. And instead of musical, I would say euphonic. Semantics, to be sure, but yeah, it's accurate for me. I want to hear what the artist had envisioned for their work.
 
I would suggest that "Accuracy" implies the ability to translate the inherent musicality of a recording to the listener in the cases of well-recorded material.
"Musicality" may be a misnomer. If you listen to something that has little "Musicality" (I'll go with a couple of examples here, despite the fact that I enjoy some of their work as performance art) like Cecil Taylor,Phillip Glass or ______ insert punk/garage recording of choice what is the amp adding to make it more listenable? Does "Accuracy" make it sound even worse? ; )
 
In so much that an accurate amplifier will simply get out of the way and allow the musician and producer to determine what they think is the most musical representation of the song, IMO the most accurate amplifier will be the most musical.

That said BY FAR the biggest influence on the music will be the speakers you have chosen, Room acoustics, And the accuracy of the source. I don't submit to the premise that all amps sound alike, However decent solid state ones sound WAY more alike than speakers, and to a lesser degree, turntable cartridges/preamp loading combinations.
 
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Musicality vs. Accuracy?

Are not mutually exclusive. Live music by definition is as accurate as can be. Many would argue, myself included) that the live musicality far exceeds anything that can be reproduced.

Reproduced music can be reduced to personal preference. If you like what you are hearing, then the amp is musical. Therefore, any amp whether it is accurate or warm, forward or laid back, can be musical as long as it fits your personal preference.
 
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