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My $10 AR-2a's

Mazeppa said:
The Onkyo amp you have pictured looks very familiar. I can't remember the model # of the one I had, but it was driving a pair of AR2a that were my first rehab project until I noticed that it (the Onkyo amp) was rated for 8ohm nominal loads only. Changing to an amp rated for the 4ohm nominal load (as the AR2a are) made a significant improvement in how the AR2a's sounded.

If your Onkyo is not rated for 4ohm nominal loads and if your Advents are rated as 8ohm nominal, the AR2a's are in the fight with one hand tied.
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The 2-series were all 8 ohm nominal. The 1- and 3-series were 4 ohm. I'm actually A/B'ing these on my MAC-1700, the Onkyo just happened to be handy in the garage when I was working on the cabs outside.

Mazeppa said:
Great deal for $10. It's quite satisfying to bring this ol' stuff back to life and use, isn't it?
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Almost satisfied in the looks department, but not yet in the sound department. I was actually lying awake last night thinking what I could sell to finance an e-wave project for these :nono: (anyone wanna buy a slightly used Grundig Satellit 800?)

I'm thinkin' I could mount the horn in its own enclosure sittin' on top of the 2a, with the xover inside of it, so that I won't burn in hell for molesting a sacred :ntwrthy: AR... :scratch2: The horn cab would have the amp inputs, and would have outputs for the woofs in the AR cab. The only thing I would need to mod inside the AR would be to bypass the woof's coil :scratch2:...

AR-2x1966.jpg
 
chicks said:
I'm thinkin' I could mount the horn in its own enclosure sittin' on top of the 2a, with the xover inside of it, so that I won't burn in hell for molesting a sacred :ntwrthy: AR... :scratch2:
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:yes: I like your thinking. That's what folks did back in the day - put a electrostatic on top.

Too bad the midrange driver from the 5's aren't more readily available. you could set up a quasi AR 5 with some crossover changes.
 
chicks said:
The 2-series were all 8 ohm nominal. The 1- and 3-series were 4 ohm. I'm actually A/B'ing these on my MAC-1700, the Onkyo just happened to be handy in the garage when I was working on the cabs outside.
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I beg to differ here. I'm 99% sure the the AR2a is 4ohm nominal, while the AR2ax (w/dome mid range) is 8ohm nominal. Moot point as far as the A/B question goes if the amp used is good for 4ohm loads.


chicks;3171130 Almost satisfied in the [i said:
looks[/i] department, but not yet in the sound department. I was actually lying awake last night thinking what I could sell to finance an e-wave project for these :nono: (anyone wanna buy a slightly used Grundig Satellit 800?)

I'm thinkin' I could mount the horn in its own enclosure sittin' on top of the 2a, with the xover inside of it, so that I won't burn in hell for molesting a sacred :ntwrthy: AR... :scratch2: The horn cab would have the amp inputs, and would have outputs for the woofs in the AR cab. The only thing I would need to mod inside the AR would be to bypass the woof's coil :scratch2:...
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I like your thinking here, have considered the same myself. You don't even have to open the ARs to seperate the woofer. Just pull the link between T & 2 on the back, connect to 1 & 2 to power the woofer only. 2 is common to all 3 drivers, T connects to the mid & tweet pots, 1 to the woofer coil via its crossover inductor. Terribly considerate of AR, eh what?

Please appraise us (me for sure) of your e-wave/AR2a project if indeed it comes to be.
 
Mazeppa said:
I beg to differ here. I'm 99% sure the the AR2a is 4ohm nominal, while the AR2ax (w/dome mid range) is 8ohm nominal. Moot point as far as the A/B question goes if the amp used is good for 4ohm loads.
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OK, I believe you.

Edit: OTOH, just read this on the back of my AR2a's:

1. Connect 8-ohm output tap of amplifier to speaker input terminals 1 and 2.
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And this ad for the Heathkit version of the AR2a, which is spec'd at 8 ohms. Interestingly, the freq response is spec'd to be +/- 5db from 40 - 20,000 cps. Dispersion is 90 degrees horizontal, which is how I have them positioned right now, at ear level, and they are sounding pretty damn good... Xover at 2,000 & 7,500 cps...

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=3390

Here's the AR spec sheet, again 8 ohms: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/_Media/ar-3_and_turntable_page_4-4.jpeg

Mazeppa said:
Please appraise us (me for sure) of your e-wave/AR2a project if indeed it comes to be.
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I was actually dropping things into the shopping cart @ P-E this morning. It quickly added up to > $100 with just the horns and drivers, no xover parts or expensive walnut-veneer plywood. :sigh:

Scared me off this idea for a while. Maybe a drive down to ZilchLabs for a live demonstration would convince me to open the old wallet :thmbsp:

I hooked these back up in the garage, where I'm listening right now in near field through a T-Amp; now the "sizzle" is very much there ( Oscar Peterson Trio Night Train ). Hell, I just don't know. :scratch2:
 
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chicks said:
I hooked these back up in the garage, where I'm listening right now in near field through a T-Amp; now the "sizzle" is very much there ( Oscar Peterson Trio Night Train ). Hell, I just don't know. :scratch2:
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I would advise you to keep them as they are - they sound GREAT for what you're playing on them (jazz), and also for chamber music and big orchestral literature. They also do a great job (IMO) of playing really delicate things - such as soft string passages in orchestral works.
 
You should check the mid range drivers for excessive fiber glass packed behind them. On mine, there was so much fiber glass that it had pushed the resting position of the cones way too far forward.

From the bulges in the cones, I would say yours have the same problem. Even after removing the excess fiber glass, it took some careful massaging to get the cones back to where they should be.
 
andy said:
You should check the mid range drivers for excessive fiber glass packed behind them. On mine, there was so much fiber glass that it had pushed the resting position of the cones way too far forward.

From the bulges in the cones, I would say yours have the same problem. Even after removing the excess fiber glass, it took some careful massaging to get the cones back to where they should be.
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Please tell us more. How does one determine the correct resting position of the drivers? My mids have that lumpy-bumpy look as well.
 
andy said:
You should check the mid range drivers for excessive fiber glass packed behind them. On mine, there was so much fiber glass that it had pushed the resting position of the cones way too far forward.

From the bulges in the cones, I would say yours have the same problem. Even after removing the excess fiber glass, it took some careful massaging to get the cones back to where they should be.
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I remember reading somewhere (can't find it now) that this is what they're supposed to look like - it's there for damping... While looking for it, I ran across this interesting page, with lots of historical info and pix of the vintage AR line:

http://digilander.libero.it/pasqua49/COLLEZIONE HI-FI/AR SPEAKERS/AR early production.htm
 
chicks said:
I remember reading somewhere (can't find it now) that this is what they're supposed to look like - it's there for damping... While looking for it, I ran across this interesting page, with lots of historical info and pix of the vintage AR line:

http://digilander.libero.it/pasqua49/COLLEZIONE HI-FI/AR SPEAKERS/AR early production.htm
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That's an interesting link with some great shots of the AR line - thanks for posting it. There are a couple of mistakes, however.

The AR2ax wasn't introduced in 1969, it was introduced in 1964 when the dual mids of the 2a were replaced by the single cone mid (which was the tweeter for the original AR4). The newer version with foam surrounds and the paper dome tweeter was introduced in 1969.

It also stated that there were resistors in line for the 2ax midrange drivers, this isn't true. The pots were used as resistors in the network but that's always been the case, so I'm not sure what he's referring to.

The AR5 was introduced in 1969 and was the first unit to use the foam surround alnico "slug" magnet driver.

Great job with the pictures, especially with the supertweeter accessories. You never see those pictured or mentioned anywhere.
 
audiojones said:
It also stated that there were resistors in line for the 2ax midrange drivers, this isn't true. The pots were used as resistors in the network but that's always been the case, so I'm not sure what he's referring to.
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Actually the DCR of the 2ax midrange was increased in the mid 70's to around 9 ohms at the time when the ceramic magnet woofer replaced the original alnico version. Some of the original 2ax midrange drivers (having DCR around 6 ohms) have been found to have 3 ohm series resistors attached to the back of them, presumably installed by AR during the transitional period to the revised mid.

Roy
 
RoyC said:
Actually the DCR of the 2ax midrange was increased in the mid 70's to around 9 ohms at the time when the ceramic magnet woofer replaced the original alnico version. Some of the original 2ax midrange drivers (having DCR around 6 ohms) have been found to have 3 ohm series resistors attached to the back of them, presumably installed by AR during the transitional period to the revised mid.

Roy
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Thanks, Roy! I"ve never come across one of those setups, and I think he's saying that there were 2 resistors of 3 ohms each tied to each midrange - a new one on me!
 
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I just picked up a pair of AR-2ax speakers that'll need alot of rehabbing.

I got a quick question: On the rear tags, what is the factory veneer on those?
 
Mazeppa said:
Please tell us more. How does one determine the correct resting position of the drivers? My mids have that lumpy-bumpy look as well.
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As with most speakers, the pleated surrounds should be flat when resting. Over the years, the constant pressure from the fiber glass gradually pushes the resting position forward, and deforms the cones. On mine, the voice coil was hardly in the magnet's gap any more. This resulted in weak, distorted mid range. I understand that they need correct damping, but constant pressure on the back of the cones can't be a good thing. That kind of asymmetrical resistance has to cause a lot of distortion. AR should have used less fiber glass, or put something over the back of the drivers to keep it from touching the cones.
 
Thanks.

Mine are labeled as "Oiled Teak" and the previous owner put some mahogany stain on there to match his furniture. :tears:
 
andy said:
As with most speakers, the pleated surrounds should be flat when resting. Over the years, the constant pressure from the fiber glass gradually pushes the resting position forward, and deforms the cones. On mine, the voice coil was hardly in the magnet's gap any more. This resulted in weak, distorted mid range. I understand that they need correct damping, but constant pressure on the back of the cones can't be a good thing. That kind of asymmetrical resistance has to cause a lot of distortion. AR should have used less fiber glass, or put something over the back of the drivers to keep it from touching the cones.
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Crap, now I'm gonna have to open these up again and check :sigh: Maybe this external e-wave thing is the right thing to do - would never have to futz with outdated xovers, worry about distorted cones, corroded pots, or weak tweets again... I'm so confused :D
 
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