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My first JICO order

danj

danj

modern primitive
Based upon the generally positive comments about JICO I've ordered a stylus for the M91ED from them. Shipping from Japan is a bit steep but not unexpected. I'm looking forward to receiving it and will give a report when its been mounted and tested.

Still wish they made a replacement stylus for my vintage Grace cartridge.

:D
 
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I have a Jico SAS on a M91 as well. It's one of, if not my favorite pairings. After about 35-40 hours of playing, the bass really kicks in. Enjoy!
 
Hey Danj . . .

I ordered a SAS JICO for my M91Ed on Jan 24 hoping to receive it by my Feb 9 birthday. On Jan 26, I got this email:

Thank you for your order.

SAS stylus is currently crowded of its schedule of production
and the shipping date is to be delayed.
We are processing your order to ship on February 18.
We appreciate your understanding.

Products/Model
1 x N91E SAS (e007424)


Oh well, I think it will be worth the wait :)

Look forward to your report. I like the M91Ed even using the cheapo stylus.

Regards,
Roger
 
I also ordered one for my 91ED, and love it. So much so, my 2M Black hasn't made it back on yet. One thing that really impressed me has nothing to do with the stylus; they sent a little, gold sealed thank you note, along with a card telling me what my name in Japanese is, and what each letter means. I just thought that was above and beyond. I'm planning on getting one for my V15II next.
 
I don't necessarily like how the character of many cartridges is changed by JICO styli, but the M91ED with SAS is a definite winner.
 
I really like how the SAS sounds on my V15-III.

I would love to compare it to the original stock Shure stylus but I doubt that will ever happen so I am happy that Jico makes a top quality replacement for it.

cheers, Bob
 
beatcomber said:
I don't necessarily like how the character of many cartridges is changed by JICO styli, but the M91ED with SAS is a definite winner.
Click to expand...

About to mount up my M91 and Jico SAS on the Traveler in a few days, hope I am as pleased as everyone else seems to be.
 
91r100gs said:
About to mount up my M91 and Jico SAS on the Traveler in a few days, hope I am as pleased as everyone else seems to be.
Click to expand...

If you like a smooth, warm, and yet punchy presentation, the M91ED/SAS is sure to please. At first it will be a bit bright, but once it breaks in, the deep bass and midrange fullness will begin to reveal itself.
 
jgannon said:
Have you or anyone tried a JICO stylus with a V15 V (V-15 Type V)?
Click to expand...

I tried an SAS with both a Type III and Type IV, and found both to be on the thin/lean side, especially when compared to the M91ED. YMMV.

I have no experience with the Type V at all.
 
beatcomber said:
I tried an SAS with both a Type III and Type IV, and found both to be on the thin/lean side, especially when compared to the M91ED. YMMV.

I have no experience with the Type V at all.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info...Interesting how there may be different results with the different carts
 
jgannon said:
Thanks for the info...Interesting how there may be different results with the different carts
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that I have little experience with the stock styli for these carts, so my comments should not taken as comparative to the Shure styli...

Also, Shures are said to be fussy about capacitance and such, so it is entirely possible that those carts were not optimized when I was trying them out.
 
beatcomber said:
Keep in mind that I have little experience with the stock styli for these carts, so my comments should not taken as comparative to the Shure styli...

Also, Shures are said to be fussy about capacitance and such, so it is entirely possible that those carts were not optimized when I was trying them out.
Click to expand...

Yes, I had to play with the settings on my pre. to get it right. Luckily, my APT Holman has many choices.
 
The effect of loading an SAS stylus has been described at length with a V15 type V on VE there. The measures make it obvious that loading does matter a lot, and this configuration requires quite an usual loading too, with best results achieved for around 26k // 770pF (cf. page 4). It's no surprise that some people don't like it without finding the proper load first, I didn't either. I have no idea how another cartridge should be used with SAS though.
 
Hi Folks,

Yep I measured the V15V with SAS, also the M97-SAS, and the M97-VN5xMRSAS

I ahve 3 SAS styli - VN5MR, VN5xMR and N97xE (all SAS of course)

Strangely they are slightly different in their response respectively.

The SAS styli appear to have two resonances one at 16kHz and one at 28KHz - I believe the 16kHz one is related to the aluminium telescoping shank unit and the 28kHz is related to the main boron cantilever...

But the 3 cantilevers have slightly differing damping - on the VN5MR the 16kHz resonance is almost completely gone - very well damped!
On the VN5xMR it is slightly less damped / more noticeable.
and on the N97xE it is undamped or only lightly damped.

This substantially alters the voicing of the three respective identical looking styli.

Also these styli do have different properties to the original OEM items - so if your objective is to attempt to voice the cartridge as close as possible to the original voicing (which for the V15V is neutral flat... for the V15Vx a slightly dropping top end and for the M97xE flat to around 16kHz then dropping steeply) - you often need to work out the correct cartridge loading - the manufacturers original loading recomendations are effectively irrelevant now that the entire stylus design is different.

I need to measure a few more SAS styli to determine whether the variance between the three examples I Have are coincidental (manufacturing variance) - or intentional....
The M97 example ends up quite close to the OEM M97 setup, and the original OEM loading is not too bad with it. (coincidence?)

But the VN5's both have much more rise in the top end than the original Shures ever had (ie they are higher mass needles with a lower top resonance as a result) - this can be controlled by either using them in a higher inductance body (I suspect the SAS in a V15III/IV might as a result be a marriage made in heaven!) - or by increasing the capacitance.

The V15V seems to need over 600pf - I will do some further work on that in the near future, as the last time I worked on it, 620pf was the max I measured ..... I didn't think I would need higher than that - but the subsequent analysis showed that perhaps I need to go up another couple of notches and measure at 700pf and 800pf.

In any case the same principles apply with any non OEM stylus or combinations of styli and bodies that are non OEM (ie a body that was not originally designed for a specific stylus).
The voicing WILL be different - now way of avoiding that.

You then have two choices - accept it as is... or tune it to the way you want it.

In my case "the way I want it" is as close to a flat frequency response as possible - and where I have to compromise, I prefer to keep the frequencies below 15kHz flat, and sacrifice 15kHz to 20kHz (which may rise or drop depending on the stylus/body combination)

I do this by measurement and calculation....

And If the folks at Jico are paying attention - I have a Grace F8 that is just crying out for a SAS stylus... and given how similar the stylus mounting is to a V15III there is really no reason why they could not release a wonderful SAS stylus for Grace F8 afficionados!

bye for now

David
 
I'll second the motion on the good results from JICO SAS on the V15 III. Have had mine now for 2 weeks on the PE 3048 and love the sound!

Bill C.
 
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