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My first OB project: Fast, cheap, and great-sounding!

I have those exact woofers and horns from a maggie console I plan to build OB's with. The amplifier from the console is the moddified 9303 in my avatar. im trying to finish up a maggie 175 thats on my bench now so I can get started on the OB's.

Lavane: Sweet! You're going to like them a lot. Please start a new thread for that project ... I want to see what you come up with.

These drivers love my 6BQ5 mono amps (modded Heathkit EA-2), whatever the source -- CD or phono.

I bet your 175 will be great, too.
 
Fantastic project and thread! Nice after dinner read!
Once you have the configuration you're happiest with, then you can use some nice ply and veneer, get that WAF higher!
On the side pieces, they look to be at 90 degrees to the front baffle. Did you experiment with angling the sides at all, and if so what did you learn sonically?
Cheers!
Glenn

And yeah, the TW's are. Rey nice sounding speakers too! Are yours early or later? Mine are early production.

Hi Glenn:

[ My TWs are #6596 and #6597, a good bit later than yours. We've talked TWs before...yours are some of the earliest serial numbers I've seen. Another AK-er has pair with S/Ns in the 1000 series. Maybe Blue Shadow? If I hear different, I will correct it here. ]

I need to keep the current width for space reasons, so present plans are to experiment with folding wings and maybe uneven side supports.

The gold standard would be to eliminate fixed supports altogether and use ONLY folding wings. Ideally, they would be variable from 0-90 deg. Seen anything like that?

On WAF, I'm with you 100%. The happier she is about this project, the better my chances for her support in future projects!

I chose B/C plywood to prototype with. It doesn't look bad, and it's half the cost of 3/4" baltic birch and maple, which are both selling locally for about $53 per 4' X 8' sheet.

But for the wood, I may be able to do something different. I have in my garage a stack of barn timbers ... old-growth fir. Recently I had a 2' piece milled, and it's really nice. There's not enough usable wood in the stack for a dining table, but there's plenty for a couple of OBs!

Any reason not to use solid wood planks, planed and jointed, instead of plywood?
 
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Hi Glenn: Present plans are to try adding folding wings on the sides. I need to keep the current width for space reasons. The gold standard would be to eliminate fixed supports altogether and use ONLY folding wings. Ideally, they would be variable from 0-90 deg. Seen anything like that?

[ My TWs are #6596 and #6597, a good bit later than yours. We've talked TWs before...yours are some of the earliest serial numbers I've seen. Another AK-er has pair with S/Ns in the 1000 series. Maybe Blue Shadow? If I hear different, I will correct it here. ]
Ive seen the folding wing thing. I think piano hinge was used. that was an idea I was rolling around in my head. Also cork or felt for dampening on the back side.
 
Hi Glenn:

[ My TWs are #6596 and #6597, a good bit later than yours. We've talked TWs before...yours are some of the earliest serial numbers I've seen. Another AK-er has pair with S/Ns in the 1000 series. Maybe Blue Shadow? If I hear different, I will correct it here. ]

I need to keep the current width for space reasons, so present plans are to experiment with folding wings and maybe uneven side supports.

The gold standard would be to eliminate fixed supports altogether and use ONLY folding wings. Ideally, they would be variable from 0-90 deg. Seen anything like that?

On WAF, I'm with you 100%. The happier she is about this project, the better my chances for her support in future projects!

I chose B/C plywood to prototype with. It doesn't look bad, and it's half the cost of 3/4" baltic birch and maple, which are both selling locally for about $53 per 4' X 8' sheet.

But for the wood, I may be able to do something different. I have in my garage a stack of barn timbers ... old-growth fir. Recently I had a 2' piece milled, and it's really nice. There's not enough usable wood in the stack for a dining table, but there's plenty for a couple of OBs!

Any reason not to use solid wood planks, planed and jointed, instead of plywood?
Yup, looked back and remember. Another AKer has a set with numbers in the 600's!

Keep the OB project moving and post pics! Great project.
Glenn
 
I know this post is a few years old, but I just pulled the same woofers and horns from an early Magnavox console and I am thinking about a similar application like yours. I am curious about the following:
  1. Are you still pleased with these speakers?
  2. What was the final dimensions of your speaker? I know you were playing around with some sizes and discussing of set wings when the thread ended.
  3. Did your crossover design change?
  4. Did you keep the 2 way set up or go 3 way, I know you were contemplating 3 way at first. I am trying to determine if I should stay 2 way or add a tweeter and make the horn a mid.
I run a 30 watt Fisher 400 to a pair of Heresy I speakers right now, I am thinking this would be a fun intro to speaker building .

I would greatly appreciate any feedback and advice!
 
I know this post is a few years old...

Hi Cavink ... No worries, glad to hear from you. Good questions, all of them! I will take them one at a time:

Are you still pleased with these speakers?

Yes, I'm still pleased with them for most of what I listen to. I don't crank up the volume as often as I once did, but I occasionally want a little more out of the system than it can give for stuff like Steely Dan and Talking Heads. Is the limiting factor the amps' power? The speakers? Both? I can't tell. But everything else I throw at them sounds very pleasing: classical, jazz ('50s and newer), folk, soul (St. Paul and the Broken Bones), new psychedelic-ish (Skyway Man), pop (Paul Simon's Graceland; Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark) etc etc.

It's all subjective. Given the option, I would favor the Heresys hands down over my DIY OBs. But it's not likely I'd ever have a pair of those. (Unlikely...but not impossible. A Garrard 301 and Altec 604-B dropped out of the sky into my possession a few years ago. So who knows!)

What was the final dimensions of your speaker? I know you were playing around with some sizes and discussing of set wings when the thread ended.

Something like 21" high and 17" wide. I will post the exact dimensions later. No wings yet! Arguably, they would improve the bass and be quick and easy to install.

Did your crossover design change?

No. I'm pretty happy with it. I set it at something like 2,750 Hz (I forget...maybe 3 KHz), based on the R of the drivers (measured at various frequencies using an iPad tone generator app) and my budget at the time. No doubt optimization could do a lot for them, but I don't have the time or the gear to experiment. But that would all change if I had a couple of miniDSPs, a calibrated mic, and some software.

Did you keep the 2 way set up or go 3 way, I know you were contemplating 3 way at first. I am trying to determine if I should stay 2 way or add a tweeter and make the horn a mid.

Yes, I kept the two-way, and I will be there for the foreseeable future. I suggest that if you have the $$ and time, start with two-way and learn from that. 3-way adds a new layer of complexity, driver and design options, and cost that might be easier to deal with after gaining some experience. Use what you have, obtain and try different things, and enjoy the ride!

If I were to do a quick, cheap mod to mine now, it would be to add L-pads so I could dial back the horns. I seem to recall that previous posters to this thread said they thought these horns to be too forward. This is true...when I sit in my preferred sweet spot 8'-10" from the speakers, centered. But it seems just fine when I'm wandering around the house. And someone suggested adding damping material to attenuate the physical "ring" of the horn's metal throat. I can't hear it all the time, but it's noticeable sometimes. I am still considering options that would damp the metal throat and be reversible without damaging the original finish.

3-way? Eventually. To my ear...in my system...3-way would be a big improvement. Again, time and budget come into play. Settling on a mid-range driver has not been as easy as I had hoped. OB designs want dipole speakers, so moving the horns to mid isn't my preference. I will leave mine in the HF slot. I"m thinking a diameter of at least 6", preferably 8", maybe even 10", to move lots of air. I also want something to match the efficiency of the 15" driver and horn. Someone recommended Saba greencones, which seem ideal for this application...but not for my budget yet. Once all that is settled, there's a lot to consider for baffle design. 3-way would seem to require a much larger baffle than I have room for!

Does this help?

--Michael
 
If I had those big Magnavox drivers I'd use them as full range mains and augment them with real woofers designed for use in OB's. If those horns came from the console I probably would go with something else. If done right the Heresy's wouldn't even be in the same conversation.
 
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Poultrygeist, you've given me something to aim for. I don't know what Calvink100 has, but my horns are Jensen RP-108. I was going to garage sale the four drivers but AKers persuaded me to give the OB a shot. The project was cheap, fun, and a good learning experience. And I like the results pretty well.

Agreed: If I had a pair of Heresys or better yet, Cornwalls, I'd call it a day. My music teacher back in the day had a pair of Klipsch corner horns powered by a McIntosh amp and Garrard turntable. Holy cats that system sounded great.
 
What was the final dimensions of your speaker?

3/4-inch "baltic birch" A/B cabinet-grade plywood. Lacks the purple printing that's said to be the mark of the real deal. Has some significant voids on the "B" side and a few small ones on the edges. $25 from 84 Lumber.

30" high x 19" wide. The stands on the side are 9" mounted at 90 degrees. I mounted the big drivers 6" off the floor. I mounted the horns 2.5" off the top edge.

I chose the dimensions entirely on two criteria: (a) Everything must come from one 4' x 8' sheet: baffles, stands, and "wings". (b) The two baffles must match as closely as possible with regard to the pattern of the "grain". A third condition was automatically met by the first: They had to fit in the space I can allocate for speakers.

Mocking up in 1" styrofoam sheeting was helpful for choosing between "U" and "H" configuration and how far off the floor to position the big speakers. I learned enough from that to be able to commit the dimensions above to plywood with a fair amount of confidence. With more plywood and more room, I might have made different choices -- wider baffles by about 6" and taller by at least that. Plus positioning the big drivers another couple inches off the floor.
 
Poultrygeist, you've given me something to aim for. I don't know what Calvink100 has, but my horns are Jensen RP-108. I was going to garage sale the four drivers but AKers persuaded me to give the OB a shot. The project was cheap, fun, and a good learning experience. And I like the results pretty well.

Agreed: If I had a pair of Heresys or better yet, Cornwalls, I'd call it a day. My music teacher back in the day had a pair of Klipsch corner horns powered by a McIntosh amp and Garrard turntable. Holy cats that system sounded great.

No I'm saying your OB's have far more potential than any Klipsch.
 
10-4. They seem to be popular for OB applications.

What about the lo-pass cutoff? I think no higher than 800 Hz, probably lower. 400? 250?

I'm liking your suggestion about running the big Magnavoxes full range. Mount the big drivers in taller, wider baffles. And lose the horns? That would totally work for me. I can't hear a thing above 14 KHz.
 
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Hi Michael,
Thanks for the response, sorry I am slow to respond. Your information is very helpful and thanks for going in depth. I attached a few pictures of the speakers, I think they are the same as what you have. I included the old XO for reference too. OBs are very much up for consideration on this project, but I guess I wanted to ask why the woofers on this are not ideal for a vented box design? Anything I research on this setup, everyone goes to OB and not a closed box or vented box and I want to understand so I can better decide what direction the project is going. Might be a newbie question...but lets face it cabinet design and footprint of the speaker is important...to my wife. She is cool with me doing a speaker project with these free magnavox speakers but the look/size is important as my gear takes up a wall of the living room. Check out the last image I posted that shows a cornwall type big box with a large bottom vent. Thanks!
 

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Size and appearance doesn't have to be an inhibiting factor for open baffles as these Spacial M3's demonstrate.

1457889480163
 
Hi Calvin ...

Thanks for the pics. Yes, these are the ones I have. I bet if you look at horn, you will find "RP-108" printed somewhere around the EIA/date stamp. My crossovers were not as sophisticated. They had a high pass and let the big driver run free.

OB vs cabinet? Your call, of course. But this kind of driver is especially well-suited to OB. Also, consider that console they came out of was not quite a vented box.

I don't know a thing about vented cabinet design except they've been used a lot. I chose OB for two main reasons: the sound of OBs (I heard another OB and was captivated) and the simplicity of throwing the things together. No special tools or cabinetry-fu needed.

The Glow in the Dark Audio guy wrote a nice review of a Zenith driver and its suitability for OB. It is very similar to the Mangavox in appearance.

Here are some very nice DIY examples by Glow in the Dark Audio. One of them is the driver mentioned above. (Sorry, you have to follow the link...the site won't let me save their images to post here.)

Manzanita Audio OBs don't have the high style of the Spatial M3s posted by Poultrygeist, but they do some nice things with wood:

Manzanita_example.jpg

Glow in the Dark also has a kind of hybrid OB/cabinet by Telefunken. Consider it an option if your wife prefers a more "speakery" looking enclosure.

And while I was writing this post, Poultrygiest posted more pics of a design that could be OB wrapped with cloth. Brilliant!
 
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