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My MCD201 Review

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I bought three SACD's today and the sonic results are greatly improved. I've also noted that the player seems to have loosened up a bit on redbook CD's over the past couple of days. Like a few other players I've had before it, the MCD201's sonic performance depends greatly on the quality and content of the recording. It's definitely not the holy grail of CD players but I'm starting to feel better about my purchase.
 
Jayvis,I think you hit the nail on the head.Since I have stepped up to more high end equipment the more I found that my old red book cd's from the late eghties through the ninty's did not sound as good any more.When I listened to newer versions of the same cd's the proplem was gone.I thjink the bbetter equipment realy shows what is on the recordings with so much more detail that a cd that sounded ok before sounds poor because we were not hearing the bad stuff on the recordings,at least that is my take on it.I found myself listening to the twenty or so newest cd's over and over untill my son ask me why I was always playing the same cd's.I am in the process of terying newer versions of my favorit cd's like from Mobile Fidelity or ones that have been remastered.That goe's for my Lps also as my new TT picks up evert crack and pop of the old Lp's from the sevnties.On Lps I have found many used ones that are in alot better shape than some of mine,these comming from collectors on Agon.My MDA700/Mcd 751 only plays red book but it has turned out to be an awsome setup.I hope your MCD 201 gets better for you as it seems to be.Just the other day there were three for sale on Agon.Not a good sign if you ask me for a product that had a three month or so wait to get one just a month or so ago.
 
I hear ya chrisf. I'm sure that the early problems with the 201 have slowed sales considerably. I've talked to three dealers who have indicated this and who had to discount their stock more than they would have liked to sell them. I've also talked to a few 201 owners who are disgusted with McIntosh and the problems associated with their players. I really think Mac laid an egg with this one but also believe they will eventually make things right. I've been fortunate to not experience any of the major "read" problems so far and am growing fonder of my player each time I listen to it. I hope that these issues don't overly affect the future value of these players and also hope buyers looking for a bargain on used units don't inherit these problems. I'm also hoping that ron-c or another McIntosh representative can keep us updated on what, if anything Mac and it's dealers are doing to stop the bleeding. Hope they take care of you on your issues and that you can finally enjoy your player.
 
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If I could jump in,have you tried a different interconnect? I use QEDs with my NAD521BEE and with my Arcam. My speaks are Audionote AX2s which are bass-shy,but I find with these interconnects I get enough bass. just my 2 cents Canadian

Alan
 
jayvis said:
I hear ya chrisf. I'm sure that the early problems with the 201 have slowed sales considerably. I've talked to three dealers who have indicated this and who had to discount their stock more than they would have liked to sell them. I've also talked to a few 201 owners who are disgusted with McIntosh and the problems associated with their players. I really think Mac laid an egg with this one but also believe they will eventually make things right. I've been fortunate to not experience any of the major "read" problems so far and am growing fonder of my player each time I listen to it. I hope that these issues don't overly affect the future value of these players and also hope buyers looking for a bargain on used units don't inherit these problems. I'm also hoping that ron-c or another McIntosh representative can keep us updated on what, if anything Mac and it's dealers are doing to stop the bleeding. Hope they take care of you on your issues and that you can finally enjoy your player.
I called my dealer yesterday. He just got a new MCD201 and it still has problems reading some discs. I guess this issue is not resolved yet...

And I agree with you, it is not fun to have zero feedback from mac. Now even chuck didn't answer my last e-mail. Makes us wonder if they are in panic mode or in denial mode or what.
 
Jayvis...on a positive note you have a very special transport, I say this based on many long listens at AC in Vestal where using Nordost red dawn pairs bal/rca I tried many match ups including the Mxx-1000's where the 201 was only a wee bit shy of the 5 figure transport! I also found the 201 to be weakest at detail resolution and didn't hold my attention especially versus linn genki and unison research unico cd which had fully balanced tube (nicely matched/balanced Brimar long black plate 12AU7@ 1958) output. The 201 was closer to the genki than the unico which is expected since they share the same stability/timing/impedence characteristics. I want to run the genki and 201 digital outs to the unico digital input and use its analog converter output. Big M please keep working on 201 as I want to run it directly to my 275 in 2nd sys.BTW the ring dac was a great electrical solution to digititus while being cumbersum and expensive to make I believe it is still available on licensing hmmm the kind of thing they make well at Chambers street, one of many solutions. I found the Nordost heimdall ic to easily allow more detail and range than the red dawn with all these players and would seem to match what you valued in other equiptment.
 
Jayvis,

We are seeing both an accelerating sales rate on the MCD201 and very few problems with the current production units. That said ,I am sure some dealers may have earlier ones on display that need the updates. Service is standing by if anyone has an issue.
It is gratifying to see many sales people ordering the MCD201 for their own personnel use. Of course many disks will not play in the MCD201 since it is made to play MP3, red book CD, and two channel SACD. Flip disks, hybrid SACD, burned disks and others may or may not play. This is an industry wide problem with all machines. So when I hear 'some disks don't play' we are always curious to know what they are. The MCD201 will play red book CDs that will not play in MCD7010, MCD7007, etc. Yet no one says anything about these machines?
McIntosh is not in 'denial or panic' with the MCD201. We are increasing production.
Chris, I personally find that my oldest CDs sound best in the newest generation machines. They should since the DACs are so much better. Find an old CD player from the 80s and compare, you may be shocked.

Thanks again,
Ron-C
 
More than 200 Hours

jayvis said:
I bought three SACD's today and the sonic results are greatly improved. I've also noted that the player seems to have loosened up a bit on redbook CD's over the past couple of days. Like a few other players I've had before it, the MCD201's sonic performance depends greatly on the quality and content of the recording. It's definitely not the holy grail of CD players but I'm starting to feel better about my purchase.

Hallo,

You should leave the player on for at least 200 Hours, while playing a CD in repeat mode. After this period of time the player can give you the first sound impressions. Use a warm und full sounding NF Cable for connection. Cable sounds different, depends on the player.

Daniel
 
Thanks for the reply ron-c. It's strange that some of us are not getting the same message from our dealers. In fact, some are saying the exact opposite of what you are and not in very kind words. Also, when you say that all machines industry wide have problems reading all discs, are you referring to SACD players or CD players in general? I have experienced skipping on damaged or defective CD's with players I have owned in the past, but I have never owned a CD player that was unable to read a good red book CD. By the way, I did experience a skip at the same point of the track "Just The Way You Are" on Billy Joel's "The Stranger" SACD the first two times I played it on my MCD201. Since then, it hasn't happened again. ??????????????
 
R moded that did not hold a candle to the Pioneer.I have an old cd player from 1987,a Pioneer PDM60, that held six or one disk that I loved.I bought a Jolida moded with tube output that did not hold a candle to the Pioneer so I returned it.The 700/751 blew the Pioneer away as it should have.Not all of my old cd's sound bad.It is just stepping up to this grade of equipment shows so much more detail that what was a marginal recording befor somtimes come accross as not sounding good because the better equipment lets you hear everything on the cd.I have new cd's from bands in the late sixties and early seventies that are never going to sound good because the lps were also marginal.I love the MDA700/MCD751,I guess it's like people say "garbage in garbage out".I know hear things that I never could hear befor both bad and good.Thanks for all the info.
 
Very true. I think that many have changed speakers, amps, etc. as they have upgraded the CD players over the years so this changes the perception of the old CDs sound.

Thanks,
Ron-C
 
Ron-c,
Please clarify your statement that players industry wide have problems reading all discs. Do you mean all SACD players or CD players in general?
 
Two types of disk seem to causing problems. The flip disk and the multyiformat SACD disk. Every manufacturer I have spoke to is experiencing this. The weird thing is how each individual machine reacts to these. We have identified problem disks and collect them for our own testing.
Burned disks are another matter as their reflectivity is usually 25% that of a stamped commercial CD, or less. None of the disks say CD on the cover so I guess that technically leaves them off the hook. Burned disks from my Dell laptop play on everything we make so it obviously is a burner and blank disk issue many times.

Thanks,
 
jayvis said:
Well I got my new player and after 10 days and approximately 20 hours of listening to redbook cd's, this is my initial review. First off, this is a big, beautifull cd player. I wouldn't have expected anything less of a McIntosh product in the aesthetics category. I tied it to my MA6500 which is piped through a pair of JM Labs Electra 915.1's. As reported by many other owners, the player loads a disc extremely slow, which reminds me of my first cd player back in 1985. The first disc I played was James Taylor's Hourglass which really made me smile. It just plain sounded great! But, since that first disc, my overall impressions have gone down hill. Disc after disc, some old, some new, I kept finding myself continually turning up the volume to hear the detail and punch I had grown accustomed to with my Arcam CD92 and other players before it. Sorry to say, that detail and punch was never found on the vast majority of the discs I've played. To my ears, it seems that the McIntosh's dac's just don't measure up to the Arcam's dCS Ring dac. I do agree with others that the MCD201 is easy to listen to for extended periods, mainly due to what I interpret as a filtered and subdued output. It does have a full bodied sound but doesn't reach down far enough on the lowest bass notes like the Arcam. The player excells in the midranges and highs, taking the edge off of many digital recordings. After about an hour and a half last night, I came to the conclusion that I was listening to a cd player that has somehow achieved analog sound qualities better than any I've heard to date. This is a very good thing for all those vinyl lovers out there but probably bad for those who crave that digital punch and detail. I keep reminding myself that it will take time for me to warm to this "new" sound that I'm just not accustomed to. So far, my initial reaction is somewhat disappointment. I really expected more from a player that retails for twice as much as the Arcam it was meant to replace. If you like the analog, vinyl sound, this is a player you must have. If you like or expect digital punch and detail from your redbook cd's, you may be disappointed. A big positive to report is that I haven't experienced any of the skipping or loading issues other owners have had. I'll continue to give the player and my ears time to get better aquainted and will report any change of opinions to all who are interested.

I am a relatively new member here on the forum and really didn't want to post my results until i had everything up and running. So here we go.

My 2 channel system consists of the following:

C220
MCD 201
(2) MC 501's

B&W 800D

Interconnects custom made from high quality thick Belden Cable- balanced connections.

Speaker wire currently is a four component 12 guage - bi-wired on the speaker terminals. Wires to be tweaked in the next several weeks. Probably Nordost Red Dawn.

System is detailed, bass and drums are very realistic and true, midrange not nasal or boxey, top end has air - !!

All in all the sound has texture, weight, depth, width, stage, etc.

I have found that system matching is very important to what is pleasing to my ears and the room the equipment is going to be performing in.

The MAC electronics with the 800D's are superb (period).

The synergy of the C220 and MCD 201 with the MC 501 makes effortless music that is not earbleeding, it is not lacking detail, all the bells, whistles, finger snaps, etc. are there with weight.

Before the MCD 201 arrived I was drivng the front end with a Arcam CD33. Very good player in the $2500 range. THe MCD 201 has taken the system to another level in all aspect of sound quality.

One member mentioned that it was like the bass, treble, soundstage became better. I have to agree, everything sounds much better with the MCD 201.

The CD33 is a very good Red Book player. The 201 is several notches above it.

"It does have a full bodied sound but doesn't reach down far enough on the lowest bass notes like the Arcam. The player excells in the midranges and highs, taking the edge off of many digital recordings. After about an hour and a half last night, I came to the conclusion that I was listening to a cd player that has somehow achieved analog sound qualities better than any I've heard to date"


I have to disagree with the bass not reaching down, with the CD33 I was increasing the bass adjustment on the C220 for it to sound right, With the MCD 201 the bass setting is at 12 o'clock (flat); the bass is as true as the CD33, but thicker and plays lower.

As a side not I played the MCD201 direct into the 501's and the bass was too strong for the room. I had to set it at around 10 o'clock on the C220. I prefer the 201 played thru the C220.

"But, since that first disc, my overall impressions have gone down hill. Disc after disc, some old, some new, I kept finding myself continually turning up the volume to hear the detail and punch I had grown accustomed to with my Arcam CD92 and other players before it."


Again I have to disagree, I have better low level retreval and lower level listening volumes can be used late at night. The differences are not night and day but changing player on the same tracks of music the difernces are very apparent. The CD33 is flatter with less depth. Seperation of sounds and placment of singers and instruments is much better with the MCD 201.

"I kept finding myself continually turning up the volume to hear the detail and punch"

I have to agree with you that with the CD33 increasing volume to 30 on the C220 the sound was fairly loud, and the MC501's registered around 5 watts or so. The sound was very good but until I hooked up the MCD 201 I couldn't put my finger on what was missing using the CD33.

With the MCD 201 I can play the C220 at 39 and not even hit 5 watts on the MC501's??? The sound stage is effortless to my ears with all the top end air,
detail, bottom end and most important depth. This would be a good indication of a lower noise floor?

I would suggest you use a db meter and play both player on the same music track and see what is happening. Electronic synergy is an art for your ears to decide. Wires are a tweak once you settle on the sound you like.


As far as load times. My average load time on my player is between 12 and 16 seconds. I think this is reasonable for a SACD/ CD player. My player was produced this month (July).

One last item, the player only has 5 hours of use on it, it can only get better-from experience.

Indy



"
 
Great review Indy.I have been waiting on another c220 review.So what preamp did the c220 replace?If you don't mind how about just a c220 review as I hope this year either a c220 or c2200,thanks Chris
 
My MCD201 replaced a long favorite Meridian 588 player, a smooth, refined sounding unit of slightly higher price range. While the frequency extension, both bass and treble were comparable, the soundstage width and depth is so much better with the MCD201.

Of course the fact that MCD201 driven directly into the 501's, sounded better to my ears than having a pre-amp in the system, thus eliminating the need for a $6k BAT VK31SE, was a big bonus. I will be auditioning a few McIntosh pre-amps in my system soon, with the C220, C2200 and C46 as the main contenders (C1000 would be nice but the price of admission is too steep for my budget right now).

We'll see what happens, so far many other pre-amps (non-McIntosh), were eliminated by listening trials. I would not be in any real hurry to get a preamp, the 201/501's combo keeps me listening to the wee hours of the morning but the VPI TT is starting to gather dust and that is the only reason why I need to get a pre-amp in the near future.
 
Indy said:
C220
MCD 201
(2) MC 501's

B&W 800D
Just one word Indy, WOW!!

That is my dream setup! I hope it sounds as good as in my dreams ;)


BTW, my MCD201 did open up with more hours on it. Have fun with your setup!
 
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chrisf said:
Great review Indy.I have been waiting on another c220 review.So what preamp did the c220 replace?If you don't mind how about just a c220 review as I hope this year either a c220 or c2200,thanks Chris

Thanks Chrisf,

It's not what it replaced but what I compared it to in my audition process at home.

The list consisted of preamps from;

Bryston- good detail, good bass, placement of instruments and vocals not to my liking.

Classe: amp, pre-amp, front end - very good detail and reporoduction, just not enough texture and weight to the soundfield.

Ayre preamp- very good , had a slight digital electronic feel to it.

Anthem pre-pro analog direct; good, very good with a Musically Fidelity Tube Buffer into a Sherbourn 7 channel amp- 200 watts/channel, seperate torriods and heatsinks. Just no weight and texture, everything else was spectacular.

Listen to Krell at the dealers showroom.

MAC- Everything just came together. No digital egde, solid stable soundsatage, very realistic reproduction.

MAC preamps auditioned:

C46: very good preamp; being able to tweak the 70hz and 30hz frequencies in a narrow band was simply great. Helps if you have no way to tame the room or compensate for room deficencies. Transparent.

C45: I found it to be great for reproduction of the actual musical notes of instruments in 2 channel stereo; it had weight and ooph. Have to agree with the review on MAC's web site the C45 will give a low power amp more authority and guts. Very good pre amp to integrate into a home theatre set-up.

C2200: this was clearly the masterpiece, not only the notes but the body of the actual instrument could be heard when doing side by side comparisons. Very transparent.

Best to do is audition, audition and develop an ear to what you like.

I think for the money the C220 is a deal. I didn't need the meters of the C2200 and all the additional balanced connects on the back, also the HT pass thru - I'm still up in the air on this one. The C220 is truly a 2 channel pre.

Most important is the MAC synergy of components. The MAC piece's all work in harmony together.

Having the 501's and seeing what a 500watt quality amp actually does being feed signals from a quailty pre amp and player it doesn't surprise me of all the member's that speak highly of the MC275 tubed amp that puts out somewhere close to 100 watts. 100 watts of MAC power goes a long way with any speakers - keeping in mind your room size and listening postion.

Just some thoughts before bed time.

Indy
 
Indy,do both c220 and c2200 have a 3D sound stage?I will be using a MC275IV,sometimes a MC2500 with MDA700/MCD751,VPI Scout TT.I don't need the phono section unless they turn out to be better than my BAT PK-V5 phono pre which would be nice so I could sell it to recoupe some of the price of the preamp.I am using Klipsch Khorns at the moment that image great.Right know I use a BAT vk-3I tube preamp and I definatly want a tube preamp.I don't have a dealer close that has any more than a few pieces of Mac stuff.They don't stock any just have a bare bones setup.It makes me wonder how they can be called a Mac dealer.The closest one is over 200 miles away,I believe in Kansas City if my memory suits me.
As good as the BAT stuff is I think you are right about the synergy of a MAC amp and preamp that should take it to another level,thanks for the review.
 
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