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NAD 5120

Jlee964

New Member
Folks,

Just joined the forum. Vinyl newbie.

i have just got a NAD 5120 and am trying to understand its quirkiness.

Apparently a few tweaks out there to make this a pretty good turntable.

Mine is the one with the tubular arm (not flat arm) and has a grado ZT+ cartidge on it but the stylus is definately bent and missing the tip.

So questions are:

1. Is the Grado ZT+ cartidge any good ?

2. Cheapest option for replacement grado stylus and price?

3. What setup tips for this turntable

Its in mint condition and apparently can punch way above its weight.

thanks

Jimbo
 

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I had one of these - very nice TT - I had the flat arm on mine. Great design with minimal but quality engineering - typical NAD really. The main thing I did with mine was to clean out the oil damping reservoir for the anti-resonance and refill it with silicine damper fluid used for RC racing cars - I think the original is somewhere around 180 grade but I could only find 150 (I think) so I used that. Overall it sounded really excellent and did indeed punch very well for its 'weight'.
 
I had one of these - very nice TT - I had the flat arm on mine. Great design with minimal but quality engineering - typical NAD really. The main thing I did with mine was to clean out the oil damping reservoir for the anti-resonance and refill it with silicine damper fluid used for RC racing cars - I think the original is somewhere around 180 grade but I could only find 150 (I think) so I used that. Overall it sounded really excellent and did indeed punch very well for its 'weight'.
Cheers for that. Dilemma is to get either a new stylus or whole new cartridge and stylus.

My other turntable is a Pioneer with a Shure M55E and sounds very good and picks up amazing detail for a relatively mass market cartridge.

What cartridge did you use on your old NAD5120 ?
 
Regarding the Grado cartridge, this link might help. It looks like you can use the current Prestige styli as replacements and the Black3 would be the cheapest option.

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/info-needed-on-grado-zt.397528/

If you want to replace the cartridge, the Ortofon OMs were often used with this turntable - an OM10 or Super-OM10 would be a good start.
Many thanks - will defo look into that as an option. not sure how good the grado is in comparison. Grado is easy fix with just stylus replacement. Ortofon is cartridge and stylus but no experience with waytbis going to sound better or cheapest option.

Got the turntable cheap only a few days ago and is secondary to the Pioneer which have been using for last 12 months or so to get back into the vinyl. A newbie
 
Cheers for that. Dilemma is to get either a new stylus or whole new cartridge and stylus.

My other turntable is a Pioneer with a Shure M55E and sounds very good and picks up amazing detail for a relatively mass market cartridge.

What cartridge did you use on your old NAD5120 ?

I honestly can't remember - it was many turntables ago lol.
 
Greetings, I've had around 20 of these decks pass through my hands and have 3 complete and one donor in the house at the moment. This are great turntables, very unusual designs, not your standard motor-plank, and have a number unique features.

First off the only part that is NAD is the badge and the green paint, I love NAD but none of their decks are their own design, just rebadged, most recently rega. The 5120 deck was developed in Czechoslovakia at the National Tesla factory and were sold across Czechoslovakia and Hungary under the Tesla brand in a dark colour (model NC470). The designer was an unsung genius called Jiri Janda, who'd built a number of HiFi components at clubs, under the noses of the soviet era authorities. He had to come up with engineering solutions to address their lack of machine tooling,and limited materials common in Western turntable firms.

https://mr-ives.blogspot.com/search?q=NAD

The most unusual thing is the arm which incorporates two additional settings not typically found on other tonearms. The idea is that you can cancel out any arm/cantilever resonance by adjusting the frequency that the balance weight resonantes in a cradle, and how much damping is applied. Its worth spending some time setting these correctly, its free and costs nothing, just time. detailed user guides are available on Vinyl Engine, but the arm can be set in 4 ways:

1) Uses standard values for the two extra settings
2) Use the makers charts that were provided with optimal settings for popular cartridges (circa 1982)
3) Use the calibration test record , only for total completists
4) Find out the parameters needed for new cartridges and follow the guide on how to use the charts to set these.

Getting these right along with the normal tracking and anti skate is about all you need to do

The motors can get noisy, but it's possible to clean and relube them (see link above). Some examples never autoraise at the end, it's just down to whether the peg in the sub-platter is intact.

Other than a motor fail, or a phase cap fail (spins randomly either way, easy fix) they are pretty robust

The earlier models had a flat arm and orange front light, later moving to round arm, red front light and finally suspension adjustment screws from below. With each new variant they improved the internal grounding of the deck, and you tend to find some there is some background hum, buts gets less and less with each model. You can swap arms , so could fit a flat early arm on a later and better plinth, for the ultimate 5120

The decks tend to keep good speed and have a very nice sound. Don't use a slip mat, they don't need one and it will ground out the suspension which hovers very low relative to the plinth top. The originals shipped with a Tesla cartridge, but later in the UK were invariably shipped with an ortofon OM5 or 10 series cartridge. I used one for a while with an OM20 (Any OM body with a STY20 stylus) which cost 4 times more than the deck and gave a lovely sound. In theory you can dial in the parameters of any cartridge and I am amused to see Koetsu cartridges listed in their parameter charts
 
Aee
Greetings, I've had around 20 of these decks pass through my hands and have 3 complete and one donor in the house at the moment. This are great turntables, very unusual designs, not your standard motor-plank, and have a number unique features.

First off the only part that is NAD is the badge and the green paint, I love NAD but none of their decks are their own design, just rebadged, most recently rega. The 5120 deck was developed in Czechoslovakia at the National Tesla factory and were sold across Czechoslovakia and Hungary under the Tesla brand in a dark colour (model NC470). The designer was an unsung genius called Jiri Janda, who'd built a number of HiFi components at clubs, under the noses of the soviet era authorities. He had to come up with engineering solutions to address their lack of machine tooling,and limited materials common in Western turntable firms.

https://mr-ives.blogspot.com/search?q=NAD

The most unusual thing is the arm which incorporates two additional settings not typically found on other tonearms. The idea is that you can cancel out any arm/cantilever resonance by adjusting the frequency that the balance weight resonantes in a cradle, and how much damping is applied. Its worth spending some time setting these correctly, its free and costs nothing, just time. detailed user guides are available on Vinyl Engine, but the arm can be set in 4 ways:

1) Uses standard values for the two extra settings
2) Use the makers charts that were provided with optimal settings for popular cartridges (circa 1982)
3) Use the calibration test record , only for total completists
4) Find out the parameters needed for new cartridges and follow the guide on how to use the charts to set these.

Getting these right along with the normal tracking and anti skate is about all you need to do

The motors can get noisy, but it's possible to clean and relube them (see link above). Some examples never autoraise at the end, it's just down to whether the peg in the sub-platter is intact.

Other than a motor fail, or a phase cap fail (spins randomly either way, easy fix) they are pretty robust

The earlier models had a flat arm and orange front light, later moving to round arm, red front light and finally suspension adjustment screws from below. With each new variant they improved the internal grounding of the deck, and you tend to find some there is some background hum, buts gets less and less with each model. You can swap arms , so could fit a flat early arm on a later and better plinth, for the ultimate 5120

The decks tend to keep good speed and have a very nice sound. Don't use a slip mat, they don't need one and it will ground out the suspension which hovers very low relative to the plinth top. The originals shipped with a Tesla cartridge, but later in the UK were invariably shipped with an ortofon OM5 or 10 series cartridge. I used one for a while with an OM20 (Any OM body with a STY20 stylus) which cost 4 times more than the deck and gave a lovely sound. In theory you can dial in the parameters of any cartridge and I am amused to see Koetsu cartridges listed in their parameter charts
awesome info. Thanks.

I have been reading up on the deck also and quite amazing engineering solutions that have gone into this. The tonearm fluid filled dampening reservoir is a really cool idea and then being able to dial in resonance on the arm with another screw is just amazing.

I really do wonder how well this will sound once it has a new stylus or cartridge?

Motor seems very quiet. It's in almost showroom condition and I got it for an absolute steel.

Had no idea at all about the turntable and just decided to buy it. Glad I did.
 
Many thanks - will defo look into that as an option. not sure how good the grado is in comparison. Grado is easy fix with just stylus replacement. Ortofon is cartridge and stylus but no experience with waytbis going to sound better or cheapest option.

Got the turntable cheap only a few days ago and is secondary to the Pioneer which have been using for last 12 months or so to get back into the vinyl. A newbie
From my experience/knowledge of a range of cartridges (but not on this turntable), I wouldn't expect the Prestige Black stylus (or any other Prestige stylus) on the old Grado cartridge to yield a detailed sound, but more of a soft and warm sound. But I wouldn't expect the Shure M55E to be that detailed either. The Ortofon OM10 will sound crisper, tighter and more detailed, particularly the Super-OM10.
 
You may find this cartridge comparison video useful - it includes the Grado Prestige Black and the Ortofon Super-OM10 (next to each other), as well as the Shure M44E. But beware that the sound levels are not normalised and in this kind of comparison, louder cartridges tend to sound more impressive.

 
Aee

awesome info. Thanks.

I have been reading up on the deck also and quite amazing engineering solutions that have gone into this. The tonearm fluid filled dampening reservoir is a really cool idea and then being able to dial in resonance on the arm with another screw is just amazing.

I really do wonder how well this will sound once it has a new stylus or cartridge?

Motor seems very quiet. It's in almost showroom condition and I got it for an absolute steel.

Had no idea at all about the turntable and just decided to buy it. Glad I did.


My pleasure . Most comment focuses on the arm, but the suspension and the lid are both worthy of comment.

The suspension is a classic 3-point suspension as found in Thorens, Ariston, AR & Linn decks, but on a model sold in the uk for £80 list at the time ? To the best of my recollection no other deck at that price point was a true 3 point (as per AR XA) suspended deck. But here is the Tesla twist - they inverted it so the springs are seated on the base of the plinth, not on washers suspended from the top of the plinth (as per Thorens, Ariston, Linn). The only other decks I know that did this were the classic Dunlop Systemdek and the recent Thorens super decks. It's harder to do as you tend to need a tethering side spring to keep it stable, but it gives a very liquid "float".

Most decks have very resonate and brittle lids, which can be a pain to replace or repair. The NAD uses high side cheeks on the plinth so the lid does not need to be a box shape. It's simply a heat folded piece of polycarbonate, back and front, with no side sections. Unlike all other lids, it's very acoustically inert, and also very strong. I've only seen one damaged, most seem to be as original. It's a strong material, I suspect it would make good body armour.

The hinges are worth note as they are the same as those used on the Linn LP12 *except* the linn ones are plastic, whereas the original NAD5120 were all metal. The NAD ones last forever but the Linn ones need replacing from time to time. You can always sell NAD 5120 hinges to Linn owners as an upgrade
 
My pleasure . Most comment focuses on the arm, but the suspension and the lid are both worthy of comment.

The suspension is a classic 3-point suspension as found in Thorens, Ariston, AR & Linn decks, but on a model sold in the uk for £80 list at the time ? To the best of my recollection no other deck at that price point was a true 3 point (as per AR XA) suspended deck. But here is the Tesla twist - they inverted it so the springs are seated on the base of the plinth, not on washers suspended from the top of the plinth (as per Thorens, Ariston, Linn). The only other decks I know that did this were the classic Dunlop Systemdek and the recent Thorens super decks. It's harder to do as you tend to need a tethering side spring to keep it stable, but it gives a very liquid "float".

Most decks have very resonate and brittle lids, which can be a pain to replace or repair. The NAD uses high side cheeks on the plinth so the lid does not need to be a box shape. It's simply a heat folded piece of polycarbonate, back and front, with no side sections. Unlike all other lids, it's very acoustically inert, and also very strong. I've only seen one damaged, most seem to be as original. It's a strong material, I suspect it would make good body armour.

The hinges are worth note as they are the same as those used on the Linn LP12 *except* the linn ones are plastic, whereas the original NAD5120 were all metal. The NAD ones last forever but the Linn ones need replacing from time to time. You can always sell NAD 5120 hinges to Linn owners as an upgrade

Funny you mentioned the LP12 hinges. Doing a joint project Linn LP12 with some friends. This LP12 currently doesnt sound like it should and is being outshone wholeheartedly by my Pioneer with a ShureM55E.

So i have the the opportunity to trial on the NAD 5120 the second hand Linn K9 cartdige on the LP12 with upgraded Paratrace stylus and a second hand Rega Bias cartidge on the the way from my brother. Hopefully the NAD will shine with these.

I have also ordered a new AT 3600L budget cartridge also.

If the NAD5120 ends up sounding good next to the Linn LP12, it will be perhaps some confirmation of the NAD's Quirky engineering cheapskate budget brilliance. I am defo looking forward to getting the cartridges on this little thing.

Not gonna try the Shure M55E on it as the Pioneer is sounding great and dont want to jinx it.

will keep everyone posted but excited about this NAD5120.

it sounds like you are enamoured also by its quirkiness and have a good breadth of knowledge / depth of information on it. Appreciate those little nuggets of info and reading up on it over last few days as i just acquired it and knew nothing about it before then.
 
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Update.

Replaced cartidge with a LinnK5 and then a Rega Bias2. Left the Rega Bias2 on it.

Dialled in Tracking weight of 1.85g, changed the kHz dial to 10khz and the oil damping counterweight to level 2.

Separation, soundstage and detail honestly very good. I can see why they said this was a potential budget LP12 killer.... let's just say, I am trialling it next to an LP12 and it is definitely not embarassing itself.

Had to do a lot of reading on the turntable with the quirkily counterweight sled, the oil damping of counterweight and the tuneable kHz resonance of the arm. But boy does this sound good for what it is. Well pleased
 
They are very good aren't they ? One of them got me back into vinyl 8 years or so ago and for that I am eternally grateful.

If they had a weakness it's that their star earthing is a bit hit & miss. This isn't safety earthing, which they dont have, but they are almost 85% plastic, so safety earthing is not really an issue, but they can suffer small amounts of ground hum.

They revised the design and the later models are better. If you have a multimeter, and every audiophile should have one( £10 from ebay for the audiophiles Swiss Army knife). Test Resistance or simply continuity between these points:


1) the platter spindle top to the tip of the ground wire

2) the side screws in the arm pillar to the tip of the ground wire

ideally you want both of these to a) have continuity and b) ideally have a resistance lower than 10 Ohms

There are a few tricks you can do to improve this , but its the one area where they are not quite as good as other decks
 
They are very good aren't they ? One of them got me back into vinyl 8 years or so ago and for that I am eternally grateful.

If they had a weakness it's that their star earthing is a bit hit & miss. This isn't safety earthing, which they dont have, but they are almost 85% plastic, so safety earthing is not really an issue, but they can suffer small amounts of ground hum.

They revised the design and the later models are better. If you have a multimeter, and every audiophile should have one( £10 from ebay for the audiophiles Swiss Army knife). Test Resistance or simply continuity between these points:


1) the platter spindle top to the tip of the ground wire

2) the side screws in the arm pillar to the tip of the ground wire

ideally you want both of these to a) have continuity and b) ideally have a resistance lower than 10 Ohms

There are a few tricks you can do to improve this , but its the one area where they are not quite as good as other decks

Indeed it is surprisingly good. The platter suspension is almost liquid as you said.

I appear to have lucked out as there is no ground hum, motor is silent, the autostop works perfectly and after adjustment of the height screw, the needle drop is perfectly and slowly damped drop to coincide with platter reaching play speed.

Question, using a rega bias 2 and I think is around 5 grams. Not sure if i have setup properly the damping. It's set on 1.85 g tracking weight, 10khz resonance and Q value of 2 for the oil damped needle. Not quite sure if I have read the chart properly for this needle weight and spec. Not sure what the other compliance factor chart was so set oil dampening to 2.

Is this ok ?
 
They are very good aren't they ? One of them got me back into vinyl 8 years or so ago and for that I am eternally grateful.

If they had a weakness it's that their star earthing is a bit hit & miss. This isn't safety earthing, which they dont have, but they are almost 85% plastic, so safety earthing is not really an issue, but they can suffer small amounts of ground hum.

They revised the design and the later models are better. If you have a multimeter, and every audiophile should have one( £10 from ebay for the audiophiles Swiss Army knife). Test Resistance or simply continuity between these points:


1) the platter spindle top to the tip of the ground wire

2) the side screws in the arm pillar to the tip of the ground wire

ideally you want both of these to a) have continuity and b) ideally have a resistance lower than 10 Ohms

There are a few tricks you can do to improve this , but its the one area where they are not quite as good as other decks

By the way, I discovered and managed to swivel the counterweight to the stock position for non superlight cartidges.

That design feature of the counterweight on that sled in itself is simplistic but genius the way it swivels ! The designer was indeed a clever chap who knew how to do things on a budget.
 
I used to give the platter a little help at start up.

@jives11 is the man for these. Huge thread of his at vinylengine from a couple of years ago.

Good to hear from you Jives mate.
 
Indeed it is surprisingly good. The platter suspension is almost liquid as you said.

I appear to have lucked out as there is no ground hum, motor is silent, the autostop works perfectly and after adjustment of the height screw, the needle drop is perfectly and slowly damped drop to coincide with platter reaching play speed.

Question, using a rega bias 2 and I think is around 5 grams. Not sure if i have setup properly the damping. It's set on 1.85 g tracking weight, 10khz resonance and Q value of 2 for the oil damped needle. Not quite sure if I have read the chart properly for this needle weight and spec. Not sure what the other compliance factor chart was so set oil dampening to 2.

Is this ok ?

I'm glad you have no hum. It was never very loud, but they improved the ground coupling between the main bearing and the sub chassis and the arm pillar and the star earth point with minor changes. If yours has three small screws underneath for suspension leveling, its the final and ultimate version.

Yes setting up all the parameters is quite complex. I couldnt find a weight for the cartridge provided nor the compliance online , except amazon who quote 0.04kg (40g) which is I suspect the weight of the cartridge in its packaging. 5g seems about right, I weighed a Shure M75 and it was 6.

I reckon your parameters look right based on my interpretation of the Cartridge Tuning Guide, possibly the the oil damped needle at 3 ?
5g - 1.85 = 3.15 cross referenced with the curve of Q=10 ?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C9ZI0t9OlI1I81jz55NCMVPdICko3PR-/view?usp=sharing

view
 
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I used to give the platter a little help at start up.

@jives11 is the man for these. Huge thread of his at vinylengine from a couple of years ago.

Good to hear from you Jives mate.

Nice to hear from you too E.Man, hope you are well and keeping em spinning
 
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By the way, I discovered and managed to swivel the counterweight to the stock position for non superlight cartidges.

That design feature of the counterweight on that sled in itself is simplistic but genius the way it swivels ! The designer was indeed a clever chap who knew how to do things on a budget.


Indeed, very clever design. He went on to design a tangential tracking arm on a deck, which is quite rare, at least in the UK. I know someone who has one, I hope to see it in action sometime when we are out of the current Covid19 situation

the AU-RA G1

 
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